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Old 07-18-2009, 01:59 PM   #57
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I am a relatively new AS owner. While I hope not to be described as antisocial, I am nevertheless not too much of a joiner when it comes to big groups or clubs.

As example, I have found that when pursuing a hobby in motorcyle touring, while I did join a large international group, in the end I found I was much happier just touring with a few close friends.

In any event, I had been mulling over the possible merits of joining the WBCCI since we bought our trailer last Fall.

After reading about some of the antics going on however, not that I pretend to understand much of it, especially with the plethora of acronymns (!), I think I'll just bide my time and see if the dust has settled in a year or so, and if so, what remains at that time! At present I'm developing the view that it might just be more of a source of aggravation than enjoyment!

On the other hand, perhaps an outsider gets a distorted view reading all this negativity and what seems like rather juvenile mud slinging! No way to know unless I became a member I suppose. We'll see!

No offense meant to anyone, just a neophyte's observations.


Brian
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Old 07-18-2009, 04:27 PM   #58
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Referemce my last posting, That WBCCI number is 280
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Old 07-18-2009, 04:39 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by bob280 View Post
Myy Name is Bob Thompson, My current address is 6517 Highland Haven Road, Copper Hill, VA My WBCCI number is @*).
Its kind of a shame that isnt your number, that would make for a cool set of decals on the rig.
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Old 07-18-2009, 05:24 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingeezer View Post
I am a relatively new AS owner. While I hope not to be described as antisocial, I am nevertheless not too much of a joiner when it comes to big groups or clubs.

As example, I have found that when pursuing a hobby in motorcyle touring, while I did join a large international group, in the end I found I was much happier just touring with a few close friends.

In any event, I had been mulling over the possible merits of joining the WBCCI since we bought our trailer last Fall.

After reading about some of the antics going on however, not that I pretend to understand much of it, especially with the plethora of acronymns (!), I think I'll just bide my time and see if the dust has settled in a year or so, and if so, what remains at that time! At present I'm developing the view that it might just be more of a source of aggravation than enjoyment!

On the other hand, perhaps an outsider gets a distorted view reading all this negativity and what seems like rather juvenile mud slinging! No way to know unless I became a member I suppose. We'll see!

No offense meant to anyone, just a neophyte's observations.


Brian
Brian,

This international level discussion is one thing. The true meat of the club is the Unit you belong too. I'm sure you would shop around your area and pick a unit that fits you. They all have different personalities.

That unit is what you would really care about as it would be full of friends you like to camp, party, eat and be with.

The Mrs. and I look forward with anticipation to our units rallies. We know we're going to have a blast and laugh and get to visit with a really great eclectic group that we accept as is and they accept us as is. The unit makes the International easy to ignore except when discussing it here.

Milo
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Old 07-18-2009, 11:08 PM   #61
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Brian,

Milo (Goin camping) is right and I wanted to add my vote of confidence to his - it is the local unit that you interact with, where the real people are involved, and the folks you will have fun camping with. It would appear that the head office politics is an over riding issue that permeates all things WBCCI, but that is not the true picture. In reality virtually none of the Head Office issues touch down locally at any event and although it may be a topic of discussion for a couple of members around a campfire at some point, that is pretty typically about as far as it gets.

You might wish to give a local unit a try - many of them welcome visitors and encourage them to come out to camping events and meet the real people who are WBCCI. They know that a few issues get a lot of visibility and that taints what in reality is just a great big camping club made up of normal non-political people who go to great lengths to have the best camping experience they can have.

I too have not been much of a joiner in my life but the one thing I have found within the WBCCI is a large group of very caring people who are out to make their lives and those about them one happy camping event.

Take care and hope you don't let the few visible issues get in the way of taking a good look at the club.

Barry
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Old 07-18-2009, 11:11 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by safari57 View Post
...

I too have not been much of a joiner in my life but the one thing I have found within the WBCCI is a large group of very caring people who are out to make their lives and those about them one happy camping event.

Take care and hope you don't let the few visible issues get in the way of taking a good look at the club.

Barry
This echoes our experience. The national level stuff is important only because it impacts the long term viability of the local.

It really isn't bad kool aid, you know.
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Old 07-18-2009, 11:45 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
FORMAL GRIEVANCE
DATE: June 23, 2009
TO: Mr. Jerry Larson, President, Wally Byam Caravan Club International
R.E: Grievance - filed against Tim Kendziofski WBCCI #17330~ Unit 170 wdcu, VAC Membership Chair, VAC Webmaster, CAe


STATEMENT:
This document will outline and prove conclusively that Tim Kendziorski [17330] did willfully and knowingly conduct a campaign of intimidation and smear against my person, character, and business in a manner that constitutes gross negligence of his official WBCCI duties, dereliction of his elected WBCCI office, reckless misuse and misappropriation of WBCCI membership records and further violates nearly every item of WBCCl code of ethics.
Kendziorski's public behavior further demonstrates such a level of disregard for the WBCCI and its membership as to at least partially explain the declining Membership numbers and the current overall state of the club due to exposure of members and potential members to his public communications.


Ref. Sec III WBCCI Constitution.
FACTS:
[most grammatical errors corrected]

[emphasis (bold face) has been added by tne·]
[exhibit a]

On 06-20-2009 @ 1:04 AM Tim Kendziorski [17330] entered the following post 0n the WBCCI Forums under his moniker 'buttercup" :

buttercup -- 06-20-2009 @ 1:04 AM
Charlie & Greg -I want to mention that even though these conversations can get a little heated we do like to have some fun with it. Joe is right in that we can get along as Wally surely would have wanted. I am betting you would not like to meet up at my trailer for a cocktail or two and perhaps a round of Rock Paper Scissors to settle the matter once and for all!
lf not, I understand and will get back to my level of vitriol..
Greg~ I am assuming that you will be at International, right?
Let tue know.....

WBCCI #17330
vitriol Noun 1. language expressing bitterness and hatred 2: abusive or venomous language used to express blame or censure or bitter deep-seated ill will 3. Corrosive, acidic language

* This post clearly exhibits Tim Kendziorski's well-documented, ill-intended "gamesmanship" in his regard to his fellow WBCCI members. Kendziorski goes on to state matter-of-factly and in his own words his public use of "vitriolic" language in his printed public communications with other community members. This is hate speech by its very definition as documented above. The gamesmanship and vitriolic speech are
illustrated fully in his subsequent communications that follow.

[exhibit b]
On 06-20-2009 @7:27 AM Tim Kendziorski [17330] entered the following post on the WBCCI Forums under his moniker "buttercup":
buttercup - 06-20-2009 @7:27 AM
Hmmm - I am starting to see why I am getting private Messages saying that Greg Gibson is the worse case scenario for hosting the new WBCCI forums. • I hope the IBT/EC is watching this thread.
Besides the redirecting "wbcci3.org" going to his commercial site,
I wonder if they, and Charlie, would be interested to know that of all things, Mr. Gibson, as of the 1th of June was NOT a member in good standing in the WBCCI, or the VAC (I had to move him to subscriber status). Yes, like I said, unless he somehow sent in his check (in the last week (I will verify this morning) our new forums is being hosted by somebody who is not a member of WBCCI. I guess that now means that my offer to WBCCI actually IS the safest option for the club..
It sure looks like it is not I who bit off too much but the WBCCI when it said "YES" to GOl s hosting. My offer still stands.
Greg, question... are you still the webmaster of Region 3?
WBCCI #17330
this message was edited by buttercup on 6-20-09 @7:31 AM

* This is a clear example of Tim Kendziorski's gross negligence of his WBCCI duties, dereliction and abuse of his WBCCI elected office and his reckless and alarming misappropriation and misuse of WBCCI membership records and member information in a public forum in an attempt to discredit and smear a fellow WBCCI member. It should be noted for the record that Kendziorski's information is, in fact, currently incorrect.

[exhibit c]
On 06-20-2009 @3:02 PM Tim Kendziorski [17330] entered the following post on the WBCCI Forums under his moniker ''buttercup":

buttercup -- 06-20-2009 @3:02 PM
No charlie - the shame is in having a non-member, commercial vendor looking after his 0'''0 wallet and increase traffic to his site - a stated goal early on when you accepted Greg's offer (linkback indeed) host an asset that clearly belongs at a 'WBCCI owned and operated domain name.
You ought to be ashamed that you didn't see this coming in the first place. You only wanted to just get it done as fast as possible. Haste makes waste. Just answer this - why not put the forums at WBCCl.net as Leo suggested? Problem would have been solved right then and there. YOU ought to be ashamed. You made a choice that will not benefit the
membership in the end but serve a commercial vendor who is not a member in good standing in the club. Greg - still webmaster of Region 3?
Going to fix that WBCCI3.org link back to your site?
Going to finally write that check for membership in the WBCCI?
This is not about "me", "In, "our" - that is a distraction to the truth that you clearly are a bad choice to host a WBCCI asset. Based on the appearance of what has happened at wbcci3.org, it will be a lost
effort like the many other "contributions" you offered the WBCCI - an eventual linkback to a frontpage offering used Airstreams. And as Leo mentions, based on your responses to our genuine concerns, we should also be worried about your maturity level as well (probably why that post was deleted).
Lets do the right thing here folks, there are now multiple choices available. Move the forums to WBCCI.org, WBCCInet or WBCClforums.org - that way the club owns it - plain and simple. It is in the clubs best interest.
WBCCI #17330

* This communication underscores not only Tim Kendziorski's complete lack of Common courtesy and respect for WBCCI forums staff members and fellow WBCCI club members alike, but also quite dangerously crosses into the legal realm of slander, libel and defamation against fellow WBCCl members and therefore draws the WBCCI itself into potential legal issues. Would any curious potential new member be persuaded to join WBCCI upon viewing this type of dialog?
[exhibit d)
On 06-22-2009 @10:29:04 PM Tim Kendziorski [17330] entered the following post on the SaveWally.org Forums under his moniker "Simon" aka - Buttercup - Kimber & Tim:

Re: WBCCI Forums - Missing The Mark?
« Reply #36 on: 06..22-2009 at 10:29:04 PM»
Charlie,
Funny - To be ever mindful of our responsibility to Wally Byam Caravan Club International, Inc.?
Does that include buying into forums that will not be in the of the club as region 3 painfully found out? O.K...
For his membership - I guess he wrote that check faster than I thought. What date was it received at WBCCI HQ? When did he write it to his unit? Why is Greg to scared to answer that himself that he has to go through to be his mouthpiece. Here are the FACTS - I contacted Jodi Morris on the 11th of June, as I do every year, to verify membership of the folks on the VAC's membership list, I am after all, the membership coordinator of the VAC. Those who are not in the club's published directory are verified with Jodi at HQ. I'll email the message she returned to me with the names and such of the people l sent to her if you want to see it... Greg's renewal had not at that time been received, thus
he was NOT in fact a member in good standing. Those are the FACTS, period. I'll just go ahead and contact her again to see when the check was finally received. What I will find is the same - he was not in good standing and suddenly got a check in.
In any event, if anybody is lying it would be Jodi, and I would be happy to pass along that you think her records are wrong if you would like. Perhaps her records are off. But nonetheless, as of the 11th according to HER records, he was not in good standing - period. And until I hear otherwise from her, he will not be a member of the VAC, but just a subscriber.
Look, Charlie, I am done with you and Greg. It is apparent that there will be zero consideration of The offer or my concern, WBCCI will never even hear of it I am sure. They put 100% trust in your decision and you
have chosen. They care zero of branding and identity, concepts you probably also are unaware of. Fine. You have your forums. Great. Congratulations.
As far as I can see, you made choices that you are now unable to extricate yourself from and from which the club will suffer Just as has Region 3 has and still does with the indignant redirect that now
just goes to GoDaddy. It could, with a mouseclick, go to the correct site. Talk about the quality of character - Greg could have fixed that and he is still screwing Region 3 over. You are in essence supporting that. This doesn't bother you, but it doers me and Region 3. And it negatively impacts the club. It makes Region 3 look stupid and unsophisticated. Congratulations, that is YOUR web guy. Look, if you really care about the club - get your man to fix that. If not, you and Greg are culpable of
screwing the club and that fine region over. The choices you have made are already causing the club damage - I cant see where it will Improve.
You win... But the club loses. Congratulations again. And if you want to make it an issue of me posting a screenpict of the forums Greg paid to have made, take me to court. You will learn the benefits of posting a copyright notice and including statements in the TOS against posting screenpicts instead of writing 1800 words of further oppression against the membership.
My offer for a cocktail at my trailer still stands - it is probably the only offer that stands even a small chance of being accepted.... Look for me #17330 in the VAC area. l serve only the finest 5 times distilled vodka's.
Bob - WBCCI does own the WBCCI.org domain name. But they are locked. into a situation with GTe where that basically can not get out of the hosting of that site without paying an arm and a leg.
«Last Edit: 06-22-2009 at 10:46:43 PM by Simon )

* Beginning with his mockery of the WBCCI's Code of Ethics, this Communication underscores not only Tim Kendziorski' s complete lack of Common courtesy and respect for his fellow WBCCI club members but
also personal abuse of his WBCCI elected position and his general penchant for sowing strife amongst fellow members of the WBCCI. This post also once again dangerously crosses into the realm of legalities in relation to personal slander and libel to which he will also be held accountable.
* In regard to [wbcci3.org]: I reside in Region 3. When l joined WBCCI, Region 3 had no web presence whatsoever. I purchased the URL & hosting and built a website for the region. No one asked me to do so. It needed to be done so I did it. Within a span of a few years the region has risen from zero to present with most units having webpages, officer contacts online w/emails and online newsletters. Unknown to me the region recently switched to the NET system which I think may work better for them. I think that's great However at the moment I still retain ownership of the [wbcci3.org] U·R.L. As long as this remains true I don't need Kendziorski's permission for anything and this is an issue he should strive to gain crystalline clarity on. I would be more than happy to donate it to the WBCCI or the region if asked but frankly l've been rather busy the last 7-8 months and haven't given thought to the matter.
VIOLATION.
Pursuant to Article XV of the WBCCI Constitution, Bylaws [01/19/07], Article V, Sect.2, Pg. 1I, items A & B "Disciplinary Procedures" I hereby file grievance against Tim Kendziorski [17330] for violations of the WBCCI Code of Ethics:
[1] To be ever mindful of our responsibility to Wally Byam Caravan Club International, Inc., and through conduct, indicate to the public that membership in this organization is an assurance of our courtesy on
the road and good will to all peoples and countries.
(2) To be ever mindful of what we say or print with respect to its effect on others so as to avoid disharmony and ill feelings among club members and to dedicate ourselves to the work of cementing together the members of WBCCI in bonds of good fellowship and mutual understanding.
[3] To conduct ourselves in a manner to inspire others engaged in recreational vehicle travel to a full appreciation of the intent and meaning of this code.
{4] To maintain our camps in an orderly manner and leave them in the same way.

I do charge that based on the aforementioned evidentiary exhibits [a] through [d] that Tim Kendziorski has violated in numerous and egregious ways every item in the WBCCI Code of Ethics with the possible exception of item 4 [see Supporting documentation]. I respectfully request that WBCCI take stern and aggressive measures against him to eliminate these kinds of actions in our organization both now and into the future.

SUMMARY:
Although l owe the assailants of this project no explanations whatsoever, I would like for the benefit of the Committees to use this summary as an opportunity to set the record straight on this project.
Together with Charlie Burke, our small group has invested 7 months of effort into building a world-class resource for the WBCCI that surpasses any and all competitors. Everything has been professionally handbuilt
and it is hosted professionally on the level of YouTube & eBay. No expense has been spared. Unbeknownst to the membership at large, we have discussed with. Airstream, Inc. their potential participation on the new Forums. Charlie Burke has been in contact with Mr. Wheeler who in tum has
reacted very favorably. Just this past Saturday~ June 20, I was contacted at home by the head of marketing and branding at Airstream. I have a long-standing and friendly relationship with him. One of his comments
to me on Saturday [with a chuckle] was, and I quote: "Greg, your biggest problem is your level of quality and your eye for detail, the site is wonderful and we want you right where you are."
I personally urge the leadership to verify these things for themselves based on MY facts.
Tim Kendziorski requested a confidential advanced preview of the new forum project prior to its launch date from Charlie Burke. Kendziorski was granted confidential access in good faith and immediately used this access to take unauthorized screenshots and duplicate pages without permission with the express intent
to execute a campaign to destroy the new forum. The SaveWally.org organization was complicit in these actions. The assault on this project by petty self-centered individuals runs the very real risk of ruining the
untold bright opportunities that are opening up for the future of the WBCCI.
It is my sincere hope & desire that this document, in its entirety, containing all the facts will be made public
so that it is visible for everyone to see the truth. As they say "Light is the best disinfectant.'

Thank you for your time and prompt attention on this matter.
Sincerely,
Gregory A. Gibson
WBCCI # 2026
...
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:52 AM   #64
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Brian,

Milo (Goin camping) is right and I wanted to add my vote of confidence to his
Barry


Thanks for your input Barry, sounds encouraging! A member from the Ontario group has recently been in touch with me and I may well take your advice!


Brian.
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:08 AM   #65
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What a darn mess. I have exactly seven words for Greg, for Leo, and for just about everybody else: Kindness is contagious and so is anger.

Lynn
By a remarkable coincidence I just received this bit of glurge from a family member. . . and thought it was singularly applicable to this mess.

Quote:
Two Wolves

One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside all people.

He said, “My son, the battle is between two 'wolves' inside us all.

“One is Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

“The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.”

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather: “Which wolf wins?”

The old Cherokee replied, “The one you feed.”
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:23 AM   #66
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I heard a good one too....

A man finds an injured snake next to the road.

He nurtures the snake back to health. Once the snake is healthy it bites the man.

As he is dying he asks "I have nurtured you back from the brink of death. Why have you bitten me?"

The snake replies "You knew I was a snake"
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:56 AM   #67
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I've joined the new website and while it's not great. It's not lousy either. Pretty middle of the road.

Does anyone know who owns the domain name and content?
If the information I received is correct.

WBCCI owns the name and Greg owns the domain and content. I don't know Greg or anything about him so I assume he is nice and generous guy who is donating his time, money, bandwidth etc.

That being said. I think it is a bad business decision on the Clubs part not to own the domain and content. All people are transient but institutions are usually not. If Greg wins the Lotto and moves to his new estate in Aruba the Club may well lose it's website and content.

My job has me interacting with several tax exempt groups and recently one of these groups had to negotiate to buy their domain name and content from the webguy that set it up for them. This came about as they wanted to switch webguys to improve the quality of the service being rendered.

My point here is that good business decisions should be made whether you are a Fortune 500 Co. a non profit or two guys in a garage selling widgets.
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:14 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goin camping View Post
If the information I received is correct.

WBCCI owns the name and Greg owns the domain and content. I don't know Greg or anything about him so I assume he is nice and generous guy who is donating his time, money, bandwidth etc.
Don't assume that AT ALL!


It did these grievances without any regard for the good of the club or its members he did it IMO to further his used Airstream biz and any other self serving interests.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:17 PM   #69
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Has anyone ever been to a rally with Greg before? If so, please PM me!

Thanks!
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:09 PM   #70
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Ask some folks that were in his old unit in NC I think 3

In fact that begs the question why did he leave his local unit and opt to be a MAL
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