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Old 12-19-2009, 08:20 PM   #113
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Calling for civil discourse is not the equivalent of squelching discussion.
Agreed. Some use the call for "civility" as a cover for squelching discussion. Squelching can occur for a number of reasons—some people avoid confrontation, some are made nervous by it, and so on—the motivations fill many a psychology text book.

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Old 12-19-2009, 08:28 PM   #114
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I find no fault in someone like Rob who's invested so much in the club deciding that they simply can do better than the battles they continue to lose to a system that is so deeply entrenched.

I also don't have a problem with those that feel the system is good enough for them. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I do have a problem with the notion that simply for having a different opinion someone is therefore rude, inferred as less than intelligent etc etc etc.

I think it simply breaks down to what individuals want, and whether the current club provides that or not. If it does, GREAT, but just like in the business world, supply and demand. If the business model (club structure) doesn't meet the needs of the customers (members), the company can either change to meet the customers' needs, or expect another company (club) to emerge that will do it instead. Seems to me the current international model is an attempt to change the customer, not the model, which doesn't seem to be working well based on these threads, the club checkbook, and membership numbers.


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Originally Posted by hampstead38 View Post
26 motions? The only time a person should consider 26 motions is in reading the Kama Sutra.

The Airstream adventure is front of us, not behind us.
This could make an interesting Airstream poster..... I looked it up BTW, there are 64 in the original, Rob didn't even make it half way.....
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Old 12-19-2009, 08:32 PM   #115
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Just say Thanks and See ya Down the Road

I find this whole thread somewhat “Entertaining” (Could be because there’s two feet of snow outside and no one can get out) to some degree. It started out as a member of the WBCCI saying he was leaving the club.

How about instead of a WBCCI “Bitchfest” we all just say:

“Rob, thanks for all you have done to move the WBCCI, VAC, WDCU and Airstreaming as a whole along, and we hope to see you down the road. God Bless you and your family and may you have a very Merry Christmas”
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Old 12-19-2009, 09:07 PM   #116
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Calling Pee Wee out here is just plain rude. Does he own a rig? Is he a member? give me a break. he was there in the beginning and this club is a family legacy. why wouldn't the man stand up for it?

i had the priviledge of breaking bread with pee wee and his wife in 2009 and it was the single highlight of my Airstreaming adventure. Sitting and listening to the first hand stories about the early caravans and days of the club was truly special to me. it was like night at the museum airstream style.

what is bugging me about Rob and Frank are their efforts to get others to defect from the club. that is where they have taken their own personal protests to an uncivil level.

walk if you want - godspeed. but to use the celebrity rob and frank have developed at the VAP in a destructive way is plain wrong. they want to infect their personal vendettas on unwitting Wallyites. Pee Wee is right, this discussion is not civil in any way. flames don't have to be flying for discourse. i was on message boards in the 90's - you guys have no clue what a real flame war is. oh the bygone days.

Both Frank and Rob know my deep appreciation for them - I consider them camping buddies and good friends. however, their actions and words this week has torn me apart. the club won't be quite the same without them parked in the rally field.

LONG LIVE THE WBCCI!
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Old 12-19-2009, 09:45 PM   #117
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LONG LIVE THE WBCCI!
Not if the IBT continues to plunder the treasury like it has been. Not if the IBT continues to hold the right to deny motions that may bring about needed change at their expense.

This "uprising" is not about a few club members getting their noses out of joint and deciding to walk away. It is about club members who are fed up with irresponsible leadership and an inability to change it. The writing is on the wall folks. This club that we all love is spending itself into extinction! We want fiscal responsibility and the ability to make motions for change that have a chance to be heard. Are you aware that the IBT alone decides whether or not a motion can be heard? That is so far away from accountability that I find it unbelievable!

I am 40 years old. I want this club to be around in 25 years when I am able to retire with my wife and go on some of those wonderful caravans that so many of you have been able to enjoy. I don't want to bring down the WBCCI. I want to see it stop withering on the vine. I want to see it thrive once again. The first step is to get the IBT to start realizing that they have been put in a position of leadership so that they can serve the membership, not be served by the membership.
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Old 12-19-2009, 09:52 PM   #118
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Another reason

I started this Airstreaming when my Grandfather passed away - he was a big time Airstreamer back in the 60s and 70s and I grew up on the with an Airstream parked out behind or next the Greenhouse and farm market. In 98 when I bought my first Airstream at the age of 28, I watched, lurked if you will and finally joined the WBCCI in 2001. At that point, discussing and listening to all the issues, I was told by the unit leaders / elders that we have to wait for the changes..they'll come one day - when we get guys that think we do into the IBT." Now, when I see these guys, man, it's been almost a decade of years, they still are fed up with the shananigans the IBT are pulling, but these guys are alot whiter in the hair, getting older, time keeps on ticking, and not much has changed.

Many old folks never understand why we can't wait for change - I have been, patiently - hoping and trying to offer suggestions for betterment - many of you have seen and commented on my suggestions.

My fourth son, since I've been in the WBCCI, Finn was just born. I can tell you... I will blink and eye and he will be 5 and then I will blink again and he will be in high school. Heck, Stanton, my oldest, who first full night of sleep was in an Airstream, is 8.5. My kids don't need to lose the fun of being a kid waiting for the IBT to realize that the rest of us are in the club too. Plus, with a blink of an eye, my kids will be gone, and I'm not waiting any longer.

I've been thinking - "Do I actually need a club to get fun out of my Airstream?" - My actual answer is "No, I don't" - but I keep going back to the friends that I've made and want to part of something greater - something that cares of me, the member participating - something my kids get something out of (they have a ton of "Airstream" friends)... so even though I don't need a club for Airstreamers, a CAMPING club for like minded individuals, I want one - but right now - the IBT and how they are running the WBCCI is not that "ONE"...

I've asked for people to PM me if they wanted to.. and I've received many PMs in just the two short days this thread has been running..

For right now, you're the ones I want to go camping with.. it'll be informal for a little bit, as things get underway, but a AIRSTREAM CAMPING club that into traveling to camping destinations together, that loves boon-docking, that's into preserving, advertising and living all things Airstream, can spend QUALITY time, but not alot of $$$ outside of "Reaching the destination" doing it. That is what is coming.. If we all come together for that common cause - it'll be great - just like what it was all about back in the day.

That's where I'm coming from - from the heart.

I'm not waiting for my kids to grow up and fly the coop - they mean way to much to me for that... It is our awesome hobby or much needed way to get away from it all anyway! Keep it simple - right.. the fun will just happen!

See you at the WBBB - it's gonna be a blast! It's like this - Hey guys and girls - I'm going to another PARTY, who wants to come? Nothing scary in that... if the WBCCI wants you, my feelings are that they need to EARN you and your money! Sweet Sovereign of my Road!

Sincerely, Rob
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Old 12-19-2009, 10:10 PM   #119
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Tim Shepard created the VAP . . .

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By creating the VAP . . . Rob [Baker] is arguably one of the most influential people in the modern Airstream community. .
Hi Hamp:

Rob has done a lot of things, but I'm sure even he will tell you he did not create the VAP. That honor belongs to VAP creator and host, Tim Shepard. Rob is simply one member of the three member Panel of Pros, and Frank is an occasional guest. I'm setting the record straight because this is the second time you have misstated something that occurred long before you joined us, and I don't want to see a mistake gain traction through repetition. Give VAPit where VAPit is due, to Tim Shepard.
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Old 12-19-2009, 10:37 PM   #120
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Give VAPit where VAPit is due, to Tim Shepard.
Tim is the host of the show and Rob and Colin, if my memory serves me correctly, have been there from episode 1. Rob and Colin are the on-air talent. Tim plays the straight man on air and makes it all happen behind the scenes.

as an aside, Rob should verify that I was his very first fan encounter. i should add not in a tiger woods kind of way. it was in a happy hour conversational kind of way.
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Old 12-19-2009, 10:55 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by rideair View Post
“Rob, thanks for all you have done to move the WBCCI, VAC, WDCU and Airstreaming as a whole along, and we hope to see you down the road. God Bless you and your family and may you have a very Merry Christmas”
Paul,

Thanks my friend! Of course we'll see you down the road. Any campground where the WDCU goes, we'll be parked with our own reservations a few spots down the row.. That's so the boys can all start hitting on that cutie of yours.

Rob
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Old 12-19-2009, 11:09 PM   #122
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Dale,

I just don't get why you are not grasping the situation given your background. The things you suggest are the things that we have been trying to accomplish, but have had little luck doing because the structure of the club by design maintains the status quo. It is a classic pyramid command structure with one-way communication, flowing from the top to the bottom, and is what we inherited from the club you knew when your mother ran it.

It worked then, because it was a company club, in that it was difficult to distinguish where the company ended and the club began. There was significant company funding and certainly, when Wally was alive his goals were the club's goals. In other words, the company was deeply involved in the running of the club even if most of it was behind the scenes.

All of that is gone. The honeymoon was over. In 1988-89, Thor and the WBCCI had a falling out and the membership voted to remove Airstream's right to vote as a trustee on the WBCCI Board of Trustees (the IBT). Under Larry Huttle's leadership, Airstream responded by creating a new company club, the Airstream Recreation Association. It only lasted a few years and then folded. Reconciliation with the WBCCI has been limited and sporadic.

So, the WBCCI was radically changed from what it was when your mother was so much a part of it, BUT the structure did not change. A dysfunctional organization is all that remains and it has since steadily declined in membership, yet refuses to acknowledge that its structure is the problem. Instead, it looks for others to blame.

I believe that all the anger, dissatisfaction, indignation, and even spitefulness (from both sides) are the result of confusion. The top thinks the bottom should be grateful because the top works long and hard and is therefore deserving. The bottom thinks the top should be responsive to their needs and desires because dues pay the bills and (despite what you've said in your posts) they contribute as best they can.

Confusion results when the structure of an organization prevents two-way communication. From the top, criticism is taken personally and seen as coming from malcontents that complain for no good reason and have nothing valid or constructive to say. From the bottom, no one at the top will listen, pay attention, or acknowledge what is being said, so the bottom yells louder and perhaps with increasing rancor hoping to be heard. Both top and bottom become more and more polarized, dig in their heels, and start acting spitefully. This results in one thing, and one thing only - members leave the organization out of frustration.

You can infer that they are quitters and whiners, but how can you ask them to continue to invest in a product that is failing when you are not a member yourself? When is enough, enough? There is the Law of Diminishing Returns, or as Rob wrote, some of us will continue to bang our head against the wall.

I don’t think Rob is retreating. I rather suspect he is reloading. I too am tired of banging my head into the wall and I am trying to find a way around it instead. Please see the thread I started:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286/an-amendment-to-the-wbcci-constitution-59520.html

No one thought the alternate delegate motion would succeed, but it did, and so will this one.
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Old 12-19-2009, 11:14 PM   #123
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"Any campground where the WDCU goes, we'll be parked with our own reservations a few spots down the row.. That's so the boys can all start hitting on that cutie of yours".


Does this mean we will see you in Myrtle Beach, SC??

Sorry, just had to ask!!
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Old 12-19-2009, 11:32 PM   #124
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Sorry dude

Actually Paul... that's a good question and related to all this stuff.. the answer is no, not because we don't want to.. but because I just used 40 hours with the baby being born and I used up all my other vacation this past summer going to International out in Madison (80 hours) - so I'm really low using up 120 hours - not to mention the other countless hours used up hosting a couple rallies this past year and going to others like CBR, etc... remember - I'm still working with a growing family (I'm calling my little ones Lemmings now)... we'd love to be there.. but I'm forced to work this week (Mon - Thurs (yes, on Christmas eve) and all week between Christmas and New Years....

We'll be sitting around the campfire with you in spirit though... I'm sure the discussions will be GOOD ones....

Rob, Zoe' and the 4 little lemmings

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"Any campground where the WDCU goes, we'll be parked with our own reservations a few spots down the row.. That's so the boys can all start hitting on that cutie of yours".


Does this mean we will see you in Myrtle Beach, SC??

Sorry, just had to ask!!
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:06 AM   #125
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Just a guy without a dog

I have been having an awful lot of fun sitting here on the sidelines. I do not have a trailer yet. I have been spending some time learning from the forum, all the things that I do not know. I have been scanning the ads,,,, trying to figure out how I was going to pull this dream together.

There was a guitar player who used an airstream trailer as a backdrop on one of his album covers that got me started in the first place.

Not being a joiner in other areas of my life, I have no inclination to seek membership in a trailer club. Unless, its benefits outweighed the dues. Have not found any real deals on auto insurance through AARP either.

Just wanted you folks to know that I am one of the New Guys who is not considering international recognition through membership. I am still weighing land yachts versus house boats.

Still enjoying the give and take that is going on,,,,

Steve
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Old 12-20-2009, 04:01 AM   #126
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i had the priviledge of breaking bread with pee wee and his wife in 2009 and it was the single highlight of my airstreaming adventure. Sitting and listening to the first hand stories about the early caravans and days of the club was truly special to me. It was like night at the museum airstream style.
Boy oh boy, do I know what you are talking about...
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That was a fabulous dinner to say the least. Nothing like good food and good friends. I have this photo framed and hanging on my wall. I made a frame out of some scrap aluminum, it only seemed fitting.
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Right after dinner we both had our photos taken with Dale. You remember that Dave? I think we were the only three there in berets. Dacia had one on too, but I think that was it. Very happy times for me. This photo hangs in the shop. I was hoping to have both of you sign it someday. Doubtful with how you both feel about me now.
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of all my photos this one is one of my favorites though. I took it while I was the caboose on a one day caravan we did. Rob was the leader of that caravan. We broke a lot of rules with that caravan. We had the wrong number of rigs, we followed each other in a convoy and not spread apart, We parked illegally a few times, took roads we were not supposed to, had a mini parade through downtown DC with out a permit, entered Great Falls when it was still closed. I even took my daughter out of school so she could have the experience. I was like a little kid with Dale sitting in my passenger seat.
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I was like a little kid in this photo too. Dale had been the scout and I was the wagon boss on the WDCU caravan to Madison. I had just spent five days and four nights with Dale as my guest. I got to know him well and will always be grateful for that experience.


Some call it walking away, some call it making a stand. Call it what you want. But be very certain you are doing what is right for you. As I said in my note to my unit members with my letter of resignation.... the only thing a man really own himself is his honor.
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