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Old 12-19-2009, 03:45 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
When and where is the 1st Annual Wally Byam Birthday Bash?
June 24th-27th, 2010 at Bakers Acres in Plymouth, NY.

Rob, Frank, John and I did a dry run last with our families and other invited guests and it was a blast... more fun than you can imagine.

This is why the four of us (and our large families) are hosting this event as a demonstration of what we all want from a club experience.

Sign up will be coming up in January

for more info keep an eye on the rally calendar

Hope to see you there.
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Old 12-19-2009, 04:23 PM   #100
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Anyone have any asprin,my head is pounding or maybe where the wbcci feeder funds are located.Wheres Bernie Madoff?
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Old 12-19-2009, 04:43 PM   #101
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Helen Would be Flattered

My Mother, would have been flattered with the suggestion the Club be named after her. Very nice! However, she would have never wanted that. Never, ever. It wasn't the times or the position women had in the 50's, 60's and 70's. The Airstream owners wanted a Club. It was on the table to call it the Airstream Club. However, for various reasons it became the Wally Byam Caravan Club. 1. There were already Wally Byam Caravans before the Club was founded. 2. The name Airstream had always been interchangeable with the name Wally Byam. Say one realize the other. 3. Certain separation of church and state. Wally Byam Caravan Club seemed to distance itself from Airstream. 4. The Airstream owners wanted to honor Wally.

Yes, today Wally would take the IBT to task, but he would have equal pain, shame with the way people are carrying on.

I don't make light of the fact that all the negative comments, and in most cases very rude remarks don't stand up very long. When you come from a family of positive people, you don't run away from a problem. No matter how minor or how severe. Considering the magnitude of the problems, they do need to be faced. Words are not action.

I have felt that the non-IBT leaders, which there are many, aren't directing the energies in a responsible manner. Many are running away. What needs is to elect at the ground roots a new leadership that can correct what they feel is wrong, and guide the Club for another 50 years. Most of the people that are complaining will never assume the responsibility of being on the road most of the year. Yes, that could change. But for 54 years the governing board of elected officials have traveled coast to coast, going to rallies and meeting with various units.

For each of you that believe there are problems in the management of the Club, there is an equal misrepresentation at the bottom with people unwilling to work and rejuvenate the existing Club.

I was coxed by a few close and Club loyal friends to continue to post until the first of the year. I am exercising that request. It is my goal to remove all forum addresses from files on January 1, 2010. I really don't need this crap.

Also I find it very interesting. I never mention names, only situations. I use pointed words, yes I do. Apparently there are too many of you that need to be shook by the scruff of your necks. Both at the top and at the bottom. It amazes me the defensive phone calls, private messages, and e-mails that I get. It reminds me of Robert DeNiro in Taxi. 'You talkin' to me?" Well yes? Well no? Only if the shoe fits.

A fact about defensive posturing. Normally it is a sign of some form of guilt.
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Old 12-19-2009, 05:07 PM   #102
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In my experience it is when people feel they are not heard or they cannot change what needs to be changed, that they get angry. The anger comes from feeling they are not treated fairly and that they tried and tried to change something that resists every attempt at change. They already tried to work from within, but were stopped over and over. That type of anger is fully justifiable and quite normal. When those people were ones who were dedicated to the organization, their anger is also understandable. To criticize them for their experience is not fair.

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Old 12-19-2009, 05:37 PM   #103
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Words of Wisdom

Master Kan: What is gained by using one's strength in violence and anger?

Young Caine: A victory that is swift.

Master Kan: Yet to be violent is to be weak, for violence has no mind. Is it not wiser to seek a man's love than to desire his swift defeat?

"The courageous fighter shuns violence. The skillful soldier avoids anger. A mighty warrior does not fight for petty conquests." - Caine
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Old 12-19-2009, 05:40 PM   #104
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Pee Wee, as a new member,i saw my region 1 president Bob Thompson. In PEI canada last year.What happened to him, boiled at the stake. We all need to decentralize the club, from the top and have more fun, lets all give the power to the people and units and enjoy what we all come here for family, friendship and camping. Its that simple.
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Old 12-19-2009, 06:02 PM   #105
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My hope for WBCCI

I too am deeply concerned by the lack of accountability of those in leadership positions, by what appears from my perspective to be an unwillingness to change with the times, fiscal policies that will lead to bankruptcy, and a dues structure which is likely to accelerate the ongoing loss in membership.

Passion is a wonderful thing and its great that so many here feel strongly about the club (sure beats apathy). Having said that, its worth remembering that we are not talking about national security here, but rather a camping club. Wally was not a religious figure, he was a camper salesman. Passion helps to get things done, but it can also fuel actions that do great damage. Sometimes our passions lead to a regrettable tone.

I honestly don't know if I will be sending in a check this year. The proposed increase in dues is hard to choke down given the situation. I do hope that whatever happens I will remain civil to all involved. I hope that I can question peoples actions and choices that I disagree with without questioning their intentions and character. I hope we all will reflect before posting in anger and frustration.
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Old 12-19-2009, 06:40 PM   #106
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We're thinking about joining as permanent members (or whatever they're called). Personally, I doubt that this dues-increase proposal will pass, but in the long run everything will become more expensive, whether it's club dues or bicycle tires. It's the American way, and the permanent membership is a way to ... be unamerican?

Lynn
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Old 12-19-2009, 07:08 PM   #107
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Trying to appreciate opposing views based on things I heard during rallies and caravans. So let me paraphrase such a discussion with a composite dialogue here:

First person states something like: ‘A primary concern is that the IBT is too independent and follows self-serving and self- perpetuation rules of order. Therefore, the ‘natural rights’ of the membership are an infringement on the ‘legal rights’ of the IBT. That’s a threat to the IBT’s authority, and they feel it has to be resisted, however arrogant and destructive it may appear.’
And someone says: “ Yea, like some third-world dictatorships.”
Someone else says: “Hold off, give them a break, let them enjoy their power trip. Maybe this is the highest the poor fellow advanced since he left a full time day job. Don’t make waves, its Happy Hour so sit back and enjoy it while it lasts.”
Another one pipes in: “They don’t need to pad their resume but some might need more in their obituary.”

This type of exchange goes down hill for several minutes until people start to express ways to change the rules, but there is no follow-through and nothing changes.

Many find this negative talk offensive and it is, but it is also the catalyst for change. Realize that such dialogue is quite normal going back to the Greek philosophers and the disputations of the middle ages. I worked, traveled and talked with people living in countries with repressive
governments. Complaints about those in power are common so why should anyone expect otherwise is this situation.

Some members are more articulate than others, and know how the use Robert’s Rules to their advantage. They developed smooth rhetorical techniques to easily put down others lacking such skills. Be thankful for this “AirForums.com” where everyone can speak without fear of being subjected to grievances, suspensions or expulsions. I agree with PeeWee and others that we all should always try to be civil and respectful of others. We also need to hear the frustrated and angry members who might express their unmet expectations in a rude way.
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Old 12-19-2009, 07:19 PM   #108
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could you please show me an example of where someone in this thread has "expressed themselves rudely".... I would like an example of that please.
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Old 12-19-2009, 07:34 PM   #109
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What's "rude" to one is understandable frustration to another. The frustrated and angry person may be the person who is correct.

Often a vigorous and perhaps disturbing dialogue eventually sorts out the truth for the majority.

Those who oppose change or oppose the only ways to make change happen may call for "civility" and try to squelch dialogue because the tone of the discussion upsets them even if they actually want change too.

When an organization has become "institutionalized" to the point it is rigid and undemocratic the dialogue will reflect everything from anger to frustration to annoyance to defensiveness to apologias to outright, seemingly rational, support of the way things are (justification and rationalization are popular ways of doing that).

Eventually significantly large subgroups will coalesce and make decisions on what to do—some will go off on their own, some will continue to try to change the organization, some will try to change it who never acted before, some will start a new organization, some will join another existing organization.

All this is happening as the various dialogues (i.e., threads) continue. Change is in the air and perhaps one of the tipping points has been reached—yet another straw crippling the camel.

It's messy and it is the way the debate happens and change occurs.

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Old 12-19-2009, 07:46 PM   #110
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Calling for civil discourse is not the equivalent of squelching discussion. I am merely saying that we should attempt to keep our focus on what changes need to be made and how to go about making them while avoiding personal attacks.
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Old 12-19-2009, 08:01 PM   #111
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Calling for civil discourse is not the equivalent of squelching discussion. I am merely saying that we should attempt to keep our focus on what changes need to be made and how to go about making them while avoiding personal attacks.

I have re-read the thread and I still don't see any rudeness or personal attacks. Examples? PM them to me if it is too far off topic.
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Old 12-19-2009, 08:04 PM   #112
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By creating the VAP and having a leadership role in the WDCU, Rob is arguably one of the most influential people in the modern Airstream community. Without doubt, he's a deeply passionate Airstream fan. While it took considerable time and effort, the WBCCI eventually lost him. Think about it. The WBCCI lost one of the few people left on the planet who may have cared what Wally Byam ate for breakfast on April 12, 1951.

I understand that this is a bitter pill to swallow, PeeWee, because of your familial relationship to the WBCCI. You are not going to gain any converts, however, by blaming the forums or name-calling. Rob has left. He's not thinking about fixing the WBCCI. He's thinking about what's next. Why spend the time and energy trying to save a fading club? 26 motions? The only time a person should consider 26 motions is in reading the Kama Sutra.

The Airstream adventure is front of us, not behind us.
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