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Old 12-18-2009, 06:32 PM   #85
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Old 12-18-2009, 08:32 PM   #86
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whose minding the store, i thought bernie maddoff was in prison.
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Old 12-18-2009, 08:46 PM   #87
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The WBCC is still a go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDavis View Post

Hope the WBBB or whatever it will be called is still on. It's in our plans
Rick - why yes it is - the WBBB is still on, more than ever, it's just not a WBCCI event now...

if you're on the fence of going to International, remember, if you go, you're giving the IBT more of your money - go because the IBT love the gas money (it'll cost ya $600 for a family with 2 kids over 6)... make sure to take your tie...

OR plan on coming to the beautiful green pastures and rolling hills of central NY for the 1st Annual Wally Byam Birthday Bash - to just camp with a bunch of trailerites - where it's all about family, friends and FUN! - and, by the way, which will be somewhere around $100 or $125 (maybe a little more now that we've got to get event insurance) for a grand time with as many kids as you can bring... the more the merrier...

- going back to old school folks - just like my Grandfather would be proud of....Just Airstreaming and Just Camping!

Your decision of which is MORE for your BUCK! What do they say, See MORE, Do MORE, and GET MORE!!!

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Old 12-18-2009, 08:52 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
Specifics, please. What, how, where, when.
Doug and Maggie,

You want me to provide specifics regarding how, what, and when a change in the club can be made. Okay, here is just one proposal for anyone’s consideration, or use. It is possible that this motion or one like it could make it in time for the Delegates to vote on at the International Rally this June, 2010. However, time is fast running out. Otherwise, the soonest it can be acted on will be in 2011. I believe the WBCCI Constitution must be amended if the membership is to ever have a voice in the running of the Club:

I MOVE to STRIKE from the WBCCI Constitution, Sec. 4 of ARTICLE IX, BOARD OF TRUSTEES and in its place INSERT, under ARTICLE XII, DELEGATES MEETINGS, the words, “The Delegates shall have full authority to construe and interpret the Club’s Constitution and annually review and/or repeal any Club Bylaw and/or Policy.”

RATIONALE:
Currently, ARTICLE XV, BYLAWS AND POLICY, Sec. 1 provides that, “Bylaws and Policies not inconsistent with this Constitution embodying additional provisions for the government of the Wally Byam Caravan Club International, Inc., may be adopted by the Board of Trustees.”
In addition, the Constitution, under Sec. 4 of ARTICLE IX, BOARD OF TRUSTEES, provides that, “The Board of Trustees shall have full authority to construe and interpret the Club's Constitution and Bylaws and Policy and may delegate this authority to its Constitution and Bylaws Committee.”
These two sections of the Constitution create an imbalance of authority in the Club. It is improper for a society governed by parliamentary procedure and democratic principles to allow one governing body to create bylaws and then determine if those bylaws are consistent with its given constitutional authority. In effect, this allows the Board of Trustees to review and audit its own efficiency, effectiveness, accuracy, and appropriateness of action.
An audit process by definition is an assessment typically carried out by an independent review. Since it is in the Board’s own interest to approve its own actions, an impartial review is unlikely and improbable.
Therefore, the Delegates, who directly carry with them the interests and instructions of the membership, are best suited to review and/or repeal actions taken by the Board of Trustees.
It should be noted that this motion continues to allow the Board of Trustees the right to create bylaw and policy. It simply changes how those bylaws and policies are reviewed and audited.
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:27 PM   #89
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I would like to say that Rob is a great person, and I have met him a couple times, and have stayed in touch with him over the past few months. I love his family, and have a great deal of respect for him. However, Rob is one person. I would hope people would have enough respect for themselves to try the club to see if its not a good fit. I completely agree with Rob on many aspects as far as the WBCCI. However, for me, the good out weighed the bad, so I am still a member. I hope everyone that was thinking about joining the club go to a rally. Find a local unit and go to two rallies, just to see how it is, you dont even have to join to go to a rally. If you dont like it, fair enough, you at least gave it a shot. But just because one person has decided to leave, doesnt mean you shouldnt at least try it. I respect Rob and his family for doing this. They found a unit they loved, and gave the WBCCI a try, and the bad took over the good for them. I couldnt ask for more. They at least tried it. I am sad to see them leave, but life goes on, and so does the WBCCI.....even if its just for now.
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Old 12-19-2009, 06:57 AM   #90
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Laura - good point up until....

Quote:
Originally Posted by airedale View Post
I would like to say that Rob is a great person, and I have met him a couple times, and have stayed in touch with him over the past few months. I love his family, and have a great deal of respect for him. However, Rob is one person. I would hope people would have enough respect for themselves to try the club to see if its not a good fit. I completely agree with Rob on many aspects as far as the WBCCI. However, for me, the good out weighed the bad, so I am still a member. I hope everyone that was thinking about joining the club go to a rally. Find a local unit and go to two rallies, just to see how it is, you dont even have to join to go to a rally. If you dont like it, fair enough, you at least gave it a shot. But just because one person has decided to leave, doesnt mean you shouldnt at least try it. I respect Rob and his family for doing this. They found a unit they loved, and gave the WBCCI a try, and the bad took over the good for them. I couldnt ask for more. They at least tried it. I am sad to see them leave, but life goes on, and so does the WBCCI.....even if its just for now.
Laura, we love you too! Seriously, our Metro Detroit friends are special - all met at a Non WBCCI event too boot ! You have a point, as it's all mostly local stuff, and a good point, right up until you have to send the IBT $55 (most likely $75) to BELONG... which only feeds their total inept disregard for you, the one joining... they NEED your money (you are subsidizing their bad habits) to keep their good thing going, all at our expense... and that is the wrong, the one bad apple that ruined the barrel for us. Especially since the local unit, the guys that are doing things right and focusing on the right things, get absolutely none of that $55 back (ok, they get harassed to fill out tons of paperwork, but none of that $55 goes into the local piggy bank).

Also, since they won't curb International and get rid of the huge expense that is causing triple figure thousands of the clubs treasury - well - we just can't go along.

Add to that, the total WBCCI ethical issue with Charlie Burke's forums that Forrest so eloquently has called out... it's too much.

Everyone keeps saying, even many higher ups, I agree with Rob's 26 points (funny that there are 26 motions but not one is about any of my 26 recommenations that would go far to fix the IBT / Membership void).... but no one is doing anything about.. Leo is trying, but most likely he'll be booted this spring - he has a noble cause too!

We are thinking of coming out to Metro Detroit rally since it's a Forums Rally.... with 4 kids, it'll be a blast so we can you, Dave and Rhonda and their kids, your dad and the rest of the Detroit gang (we'll make the route over through Canada and just enjoy the Streamin! Dave and I have an un-said agreement - they come this way, we go that way!!

We'll definately see you guys down the road!
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Old 12-19-2009, 07:50 AM   #91
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Sad memory of Wally

I have owned my 98 4' Excella 1000 for two years now after full-timing a 37' Top of the Line fifth wheel and Freightliner FL60 for 6 before.

I mostly work overseas but love "Livin' in aluminum" whenever I come home. I will be retiring in about 3 years and then want to live completely on the road. I read the forums daily and it keeps my heart close to the community.

I've looked forward to joining the WBCCI club since years before I bought my Airstream. However, not anymore. This isn't the WBCCI club that Wally built. It's something else entirely now. I've watched the club founder over several years and watched its leadership repeat the mistakes that have taken other great organizations into ruin.

I think that Wally would be appalled at what has happened to the organization that he built so lovingly and which bears his name. If it's not about the local chapters, its not about the members. If it's not about the members, there is no point.

Spend it all guys. It'll all be a sad memory soon enough. Sorry I missed the old WBCCI. The current one isn't anything I would want to join.
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Old 12-19-2009, 02:25 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secguru View Post
I have owned my 98 4' Excella 1000 for two years now after full-timing a 37' Top of the Line fifth wheel and Freightliner FL60 for 6 before.

I mostly work overseas but love "Livin' in aluminum" whenever I come home. I will be retiring in about 3 years and then want to live completely on the road. I read the forums daily and it keeps my heart close to the community.

I've looked forward to joining the WBCCI club since years before I bought my Airstream. However, not anymore. This isn't the WBCCI club that Wally built. It's something else entirely now. I've watched the club founder over several years and watched its leadership repeat the mistakes that have taken other great organizations into ruin.

I think that Wally would be appalled at what has happened to the organization that he built so lovingly and which bears his name. If it's not about the local chapters, its not about the members. If it's not about the members, there is no point.

Spend it all guys. It'll all be a sad memory soon enough. Sorry I missed the old WBCCI. The current one isn't anything I would want to join.
Wally Byam had absolutely no direct formation of the WBCCI. The Club was founded of Airstream owners, by Airstream owners and for Airstream owners. Wally Byam's contribution to the Club was his original founding of Airstream, his financial involvement with the Club and providing Helen Byam Schwamborn to organize the Club. Wally Byam would only be appalled at all of the people that can spout anger, disenchantment and cannot collectively work out the problems within the Club. While my Mother was in charge she co-ordinated between Airstream, the Club, the IBT and the very few egocentric Club Members that stirred the pot. The problems were there 50 years ago.

Thank goodness most of the Club Members are aware of the problems within the Club and positively are trying to repair the short comings.

As far as this forum and other forums, it just hot air in the wind. The people you need to work with don't read them. Why? Because of the tone of the messages. Nothing positive. No one stepping up to assist. Finally, just a lemming attempting to have others join in a jump off the cliff.

I am fully aware of the problems that the "complainers, antagonists, and belligerents" cough up. There are many aspects of the Club that need to be changed, updated, and scrutinized.

If you can't participate in working towards a better Club, then stop your negativity and destruction of the Club from within.
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Old 12-19-2009, 03:00 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robandzoe View Post
[deleted]
OR plan on coming to the beautiful green pastures and rolling hills of central NY for the 1st Annual Wally Byam Birthday Bash - to just camp with a bunch of trailerites - where it's all about family, friends and FUN! - and, by the way, which will be somewhere around $100 or $125 (maybe a little more now that we've got to get event insurance) for a grand time with as many kids as you can bring... the more the merrier...

- going back to old school folks - just like my Grandfather would be proud of....Just Airstreaming and Just Camping!

Your decision of which is MORE for your BUCK! What do they say, See MORE, Do MORE, and GET MORE!!!

Rob
Rob,
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Old 12-19-2009, 03:18 PM   #94
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Facts

Pee Wee - you know how and what I think as to what you've done in the past, and what those adventures mean to me.. this is not about any of that, nor about the past good old days of the WBCCI... some thoughts I don't think even you can argue with... that baffles me on how you can still continue to go and jump off the cliff into the sea and drown with the IBT

1. Pee Wee (you don't exist in the IBTs world) - you're an enigma and they don't know how to treat you. Hell, they won't even recognize you as a member (I seem to recall giving you a certificate a few months ago??)

2. You don't give those crooks any of your money every year so you don't know what it feels like knowing that your hard earned money is being pissed away on non-important stuff.

3. You don't own an Airstream and haven't for years.. I've owned 19 of them.. am responsible for a large number to join the club (yes, I used to be enthusiastic about it until I saw behind the curtain) - have been a President of one of the largest units in the club, yet still not listened too by any of the so-called leaders of the club - no, they just continue to see how they can keep up their good gig.

4. Work within - it is impossible with the current rules (there are no checks and balances - maybe the new motion will pass, but I doubt it will - and everyone knows that, yet they still feel obligated to keep hitting their head up against the wall (not my words but words from higher ups).

5. Maybe the WBCCI should remain as the Airstream Caravanning Club where the elite leadership lives off the member's hard earned cash.

6. A new club will form that focuses on Airstream Camping that doesn't take advantage of it's members money and listens to what they want, how they want it, and when they want it.

7. Some people don't rock the boat, sit idly by, as it sinks and wonder how did I get wet, then say, I don't like being wet. Not me. I'm gonna do something about, and knowing it can't be done inside, I refuse to give the IBT any more of my money - why others do, I don't know.

8. We're gonna have fun not at the expense of paying some IBT.

9. Others will stay and keep bailing.

I'm a man of principles Pee Wee and you know that. Resigning says" I will not tolerate this situation and refuse to work with this situation any more"

You would stay.. wait, you'd have to be part of the club to stay? I know how you feel on that, and I feel you're part of the club, but officially, you and I know you are not.. again, more negatives for the IBT by not recognizing you as others (including ME) do.

Outside of all this, we're still friends (at least I hope we still are).. as it's just a club about long silver tube like entities.... Errr!

Rob
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Old 12-19-2009, 03:20 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeWee View Post
Wally Byam would only be appalled at all of the people that can spout anger, disenchantment and cannot collectively work out the problems within the Club.

Wally was a businessman, and I believe he would be appalled at the way the Trustees are finacially mis-managing the club which bears his name.

The IBT has been set up in such a way that they are the only ones that can judge the validity of a motion. This makes it impossible to make changes that they do not want. The lemmings are those that are sitting around waiting for the club leadership to make the changes needed to ensure that the WBCCI is still in existance in another 50 years.

Pee Wee, you seem like you appreciate history. Benjamin Franklin said: "When the people find they can vote themselves money,
that will herald the end of the republic."


I submit that the end of the republic that is the WBCCI is upon us.
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Old 12-19-2009, 03:26 PM   #96
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When and where is the 1st Annual Wally Byam Birthday Bash?
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Old 12-19-2009, 03:40 PM   #97
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Funny Dale, six months ago you were complimenting Rob and myself for how much Airstream spirit we had. Now were lemmings. I actually had to look up what it is about lemmings that is a bad thing. I had zero knowledge of lemmings at all. Thank you for forcing me to educate myself. To be called a lemming is to say that you will blindly run off a cliff as a mass and die. From WIKI: While many people believe that lemmings commit mass suicide when they migrate, this is not the case. Driven by strong biological urges, they will migrate in large groupings when population density becomes too great. Lemmings can and do swim and may choose to cross a body of water in search of a new habitat.[7]

Lemmings do not hibernate through the harsh northern winter. They remain active, finding food by burrowing through the snow and utilizing grasses clipped and stored in advance.

So thank you, I think being a lemming is a compliment and not the insult you intended it to be.


I have chosen to resign. Many have emailed me to say they are just not going to renew. I personally do not think that sends a message.
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Old 12-19-2009, 03:41 PM   #98
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Pee Wee,
With all due respect, it sounds as though the WBCCI should have been the HBCCI in honor of your mother Helen for being the founder and chief organizer of the club. Perhaps it was a sign of the times that she or women of that era were often unaccredited for there achievements. Times have changed however and organizations, like people, need to adapt to survive. I think that’s all that’s being asked here of the WBCCI.
One mans Lemming jumping off a cliff is another mans Eagle soaring to greater heights.
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