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Old 01-12-2010, 09:27 AM   #575
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Seems obvious to me that the WBCCI serves the needs of the post WWII, Korean War generation who place a high emphasis on fraternal lodge style organizations like the Elks, the Lions, the Shriners and so forth. These organizations are all about conformity, uniformity, rules and regulations, structure, process and procedure and protocol. They have these ceremonies where they wear all the same jackets and hats and wave around the flag and so forth. There are many of these style organizations but they in large do not appeal to the majority of generations which followed. I'm not really sure that the WBCCI even mirrors the views of Wally Byam. Maybe they do. The organization serves the needs of this generation however, and is unlikely to change until the members leave or drop off due to attrition. So new organizations need to form to address the needs of the boomers and those who follow. Will that be the Tin Can Tourists, Air Forum Rally's or some other structure is hard to tell but trying to "Save Wally" by revolutionizing the WBCCI will not work. So the emphasis now should be on new organization models that meet the new customers and existing customers who do not fit the fraternal lodge model. So, don't reform it, just focus on new structures that fit. That's my two cents worth.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:05 AM   #576
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Originally Posted by Silverexpres View Post
Seems obvious to me that the WBCCI serves the needs of the post WWII, Korean War generation who place a high emphasis on fraternal lodge style organizations like the Elks, the Lions, the Shriners and so forth. These organizations are all about conformity, uniformity, rules and regulations, structure, process and procedure and protocol. They have these ceremonies where they wear all the same jackets and hats and wave around the flag and so forth. There are many of these style organizations but they in large do not appeal to the majority of generations which followed. I'm not really sure that the WBCCI even mirrors the views of Wally Byam. Maybe they do. The organization serves the needs of this generation however, and is unlikely to change until the members leave or drop off due to attrition. So new organizations need to form to address the needs of the boomers and those who follow. Will that be the Tin Can Tourists, Air Forum Rally's or some other structure is hard to tell but trying to "Save Wally" by revolutionizing the WBCCI will not work. So the emphasis now should be on new organization models that meet the new customers and existing customers who do not fit the fraternal lodge model. So, don't reform it, just focus on new structures that fit. That's my two cents worth.
You some good points. The main theme for WWII was survival. The group was the process. Few of these folks are around and fewer still active in the leadership. The motives of those in charge can not be easily equated to the practical motives of the founders....
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:04 AM   #577
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Follow the money. The International organization, and the way they are running it, satisfies their needs. The volunteers need to feel needed. The many committees and chairmen, with the work that they produce is rewarding to them. The work they produce mainly benefits those who avail themselves of these national benefits ie. national caravans and International Rallies. The free two weeks camping, provided before the international, is their additional personal reward. The non-volunteers pay for it in higher rally fees, which seems fair. If you do not contribute labor, you should pay a higher price.

The members who set on the IBT and the EC7 have put in 7 years to 14 years in lower office contributing their time to the club. I am not sure they should get completely free travel.

From their actions (and distinctive clothing) they do seem to be the type that like to stand out as "someone special". Due to the seniority way of obtaining high office within the club, they all seem to be older than the majority of the regular membership and are out of syn with the times. The nominating committee, and all the rules, make it very difficult for the regular membership to have any major impact on getting the club turned around.

I am not sure that the leadership has any mails in their way of operating. Their poor performance is more than likely just their inability understand the changing times and the new way the club needs to operate, if it is to survive, or it just may be their inability to change.
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:41 PM   #578
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My grandparents are of the WWII era, growing up during the Great Depression. They rationed absolutely everything. When I was a kid, we'd go over to their house for Sunday breakfast. We were only allowed one piece of bacon, one piece of toast and a half a glass of orange juice with our eggs. You didn't dare ask for more, or you got the lecture. Hell, I remember my grandfather smoking half of his cigar, putting it out and saving it for later.

My grandparents lived in the same rowhome from 1946 until 2001, and the only reason they moved was because the neighborhood had totally gone to hell; the people two doors down had a meth lab going and the house caught fire, nearly burning down the entire row. My aunt and uncle pretty much packed all their stuff up for them and forced them to buy a new house...my grandparents paid cash for it, by the way.

All of my grandparents' friends were the same way too. I always had to listen to the, "You don't know how good you have it. When I was a kid, we had nothing" speech.

My point to all of this is that you would think that, if the IBT folks are indeed of the WWII era, they'd be able to manage money better and not be so wasteful. Then again, since they're in the twilight of their lives, maybe they're just saying, "Screw it, let's make the most of it and forget everyone else".
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:54 PM   #579
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Stingray -- extremely good point(s).

Anyone know where the bio's for all the leadership can be found? I don't keep old Blue Beret's around. And not even sure where to find info on Region leaders.
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:59 PM   #580
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For the leadership to have been affected directly by the Great Depression they would be in their mid 80's or older. As old as that group looks, I don't think there are too many 80+ year olds there. They are more likely vets from the Korean War and Vietnam who may be career military for the most part and reflect it in their style of governance and social views. The military has never been known for good budgeting.

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Old 01-12-2010, 08:27 PM   #581
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...I think we should all just cool our collective jets, kick back and watch Dave work his magic with the IBT.
Thanks for the vote of confidence Frank. As much as I would love to go to the mid-winter meeting and speak to the IBT, it's not going to happen for me. As you know I am a single Dad with two teens at home and can't get away.

I belong to Region 2 and our President will be in LA well armed with with the opinions of the Airstreamers from his Region.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:16 PM   #582
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...The military has never been known for good budgeting.

Gene
At what we call Echelons Above Reality, I agree. At the lower levels, I can tell you that some of the units I've been in, especially Special Forces, got very creative with their resources, in order to make them last, because we knew that we weren't getting resupplied on a regular basis.

I would still expect a modicum of conservation from the Koream War crowd.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:14 PM   #583
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When I went into the Navy, one of my best friend's dad made the remark to me; "You must be going Navy, you couldn't be going Coast Guard." I asked him "Why not?" He said "You're short!" I said "I'm 5'10"." He said "You have to be at least 6' tall to be in the Coast Guard." I said "Are you sure? I've never heard of that requirement." He said "Of course. You MUST be 6' tall or more to be in the Coast Guard." I said "Why is that?" He said "So you can WALK back to shore when the boat sinks!" He was a Korean war vet with a good sense of humor!

My grand dad is 84, a WWII vet (was a Hellcat and later a Corsair crew chief on the Saratoga), and was a member of WBCCI for many years. He might still be. But he told me a year or so back he was going to quit because it wasn't any fun anymore.

WBCCI has never been without it's turmoil. I think that is what Dale was saying all along. Wally talks about it extensively in his book that he wrote in 1959 about how they were all ready to kill each other when stuff broke in the middle of nowhere. There was always strife.

But, maybe not like it is now...

At any rate, I still haven't heard if Avions can be in the new club....Guess I might have to be a Tin Can Tourist

Back to your regularly scheduled programming....
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:40 AM   #584
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Wrong word Dave

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Originally Posted by munimula View Post

I belong to Region 2 and our President will be in LA well armed with with the opinions of the Airstreamers from his Region.
Dave, he'll be well armed with the opinions of the WBCCIers from his region is a more accurate statement.

I doubt he's going with my opinion. And we'll be listening to see if he rocks the boat or if he's just sitting there with his life jacket on.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:25 PM   #585
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are you kidding

what is up with all this if you want change than work for it not just sit on the side and to complain about vets who layed their lifes down for you to have your freedom to voice and make change shame on all of you I am a member and a 26 year vet and at 52 I guss a baby boomer but I respect all and mostly vets been there done that try picking on me people I am young enough to deal with it. these old vets you wine about built this club for you and all to enjoy dont like the way its running, cange it or go away quit wining about it who sead life is perfect and just for you ..............
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:50 PM   #586
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what is up with all this if you want change than work for it not just sit on the side and to complain about vets who layed their lifes down for you to have your freedom to voice and make change shame on all of you I am a member and a 26 year vet and at 52 I guss a baby boomer but I respect all and mostly vets been there done that try picking on me people I am young enough to deal with it. these old vets you wine about built this club for you and all to enjoy dont like the way its running, cange it or go away quit wining about it who sead life is perfect and just for you ..............
Just because they're vets doesn't mean they're beyond reproach. I've known some dirty servicemembers. When I was in 10th Special Forces Group (Airborne), a Soldier in Supply found a bunch of blank ID cards in the dumpster...this was when our ID cards were still green. He made several fake ID's and printed up bogus checks. He went to the PX regularly and presented his checks and ID to the nice lady who gave him cash. He did this to the tune of $70,000, until one day he presented the wrong ID with a fake check. When the lady told him that the ID didn't match up, he took the ID, put it in his pocket and pulled out another ID. The MPs at Fort Carson arrested him, as he tried fleeing from the PX.

If you think I'm exaggerating, pick up the latest copy of the Army Times that talks about the two Captains who embezzled over $400,000.
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Old 01-13-2010, 09:53 PM   #587
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:00 AM   #588
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Just because they're vets doesn't mean they're beyond reproach. I've known some dirty servicemembers.
StingrayL82 is correct. If you want further proof, the Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth Kansas can provide you with numerous such cases. That's where all members of the Armed Forces serve sentences in excess of two years, mostly at hard labor. The Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary (completely separate but both institutions share the same grounds) is a kid's camp in comparison.

This is one reason why the Christmas Day Bomber is one lucky S.O.B. he's being tried in criminal court instead of by a military tribunal.
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