Good-bye WBCCI

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by robandzoe

Forrest,

And I bet it's not even counting Frank and I.... are we listed? I sure do hope the leadership wakes up in time? They might wake up, but I do sincerely feel that the wave has already crested and they're about half way up... the tumble in the surf hurts!!!!!

Rob,

Yes, both you and Frank are listed. Wow, 16 fewer pages of members. I knew the membership was down, but WOW.

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by mistral blue

So are there going to be 28 Regional Presidents at the mid winter meeting?

[robandzoe]

Only 12 Regions... to my knowledge

http://wbcci.org/index.cfm?pageSRC=Regions

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Gen Disarray

So are there going to be 28 Regional Presidents at the mid winter meeting?

And a kangaroo.

Gene

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

And a kangaroo.

Gene

Personally, Im not comfortable with the kangaroo, but I thought the three Messiahs was a nice touch. So is that three IBT presidents?

[Silverwanabe]

In my unit, some members were late in paying dues and their names are not listed in the directory.

I think an exact number is always in a fluid state.

[mistral blue]

Originally Posted by Gen Disarray

So is that three IBT presidents?

Is it the jello you don't like?

[Frank's Trailer Works]

... and what exactly does all that have to do with a camping/ caravanning club? Is all that crap you just mentioned Leo REALLY necessary? Wow, it is so great that you now have an approved person moving up a ladder that should not even exist. What a TOTAL and COMPLETE WASTE of everyone's time and monies.

[mistermike]

Originally Posted by Forrest

I got my 2010 WBCCI Membership Directory in the mail today. I counted 16 fewer pages of member listings than the 2009 Directory. I'm stunned. Did I count wrong? If each page averages about 55 member listings per page then 2010 has about 880 fewer members. Does anyone know what the numbers actually are?

As I have been reading this lenthy thread mostly out of curiosity some of the stuff absolutely amazes the heck out of me.

It would appear that some of the posters have forgotten that this is a publically-accessible forum that anybody, Airstream owner or not, member or not,can read. So what should be essentially a members-only matter become everyone's business if they choose to read the thread.

I am not nor have I ever been a WBCCI member and don't know any of the particpants or those mentioned in these posts. So I have no axes to grind or sides to take and can view this and remain completely objective. Please understand that what I am about to say is from an outsider looking in and is offered a constructive opinion coming from someone who should be considered a potential member of your Club.

I would love to join the local unit as I understand it is a group of great guys and gals who have a lot of fun together. However judging somely on what I have read in this and other threads when someone is elevated to the Region/National level and politics rears its ugly head things can become quite different very quickly. Sounds like it can sometimes get pretty unpleasant and downright nasty.

Originally Posted by DFDureiko

I was not going to use this analogy, for fear of offending someone, but it's the best I can think of. I hardly agree with anything the Catholic church says (Rome), but I feel comfortable with my local priest, and comfortable with the ceremony as I grew up with it........

I found this analogy very apt and relevent. It gives me a good picture of how this whole thing is structured. Dan, be assured I was not offended.

I read with interest the Wisconsin National Rally financial statement that was posted. Then I read about some people receiving expense and other reimbursements for travelling on club business.

$75.00 for annual membership is a lot of cake especially these days and I'll be damned if I am going to contribute any of my hard-earned cake to some directors/trustees good time expense accounts and "stipends" at a time when the organization appears to be losing money.

Put yourself in my position. How does this look to an outsider looking in?

Given the above and what I have read in other threads I am not surprised your membership numbers are down. Even -500 would be highly significant so close to 900 especially in this economy is catastrophic. Additionally, these numbers don't take into account the untold number who own Airstream products and may have considered becoming members but who have declined to join at this time as a result of the revelations that have been put forth on this very public Forum.

Doesn't the WBCCI have it's own forum on it's members-only site? Do you think it is wise to wash your Club's dirty laundry in public or is official Club forum censored by the "higher-ups" preventing you from discussing these issues freely and openly as you are able to do here?

Inquiring minds want to know.

MisterMike

[RickDavis]

"or is official Club forum censored by the "higher-ups" preventing you from discussing these issues freely and openly as you are able to do here?"
quote from Mister Mike above


That pretty well sums it up

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Originally Posted by mistermike

As I have been reading this lenthy thread mostly out of curiosity some of the stuff absolutely amazes the heck out of me.

It would appear that some of the posters have forgotten that this is a publically-accessible forum that anybody, Airstream owner or not, member or not,can read. So what should be essentially a members-only matter become everyone's business if they choose to read the thread.



Doesn't the WBCCI have it's own forum on it's members-only site? Do you think it is wise to wash your Club's dirty laundry in public or is official Club forum censored by the "higher-ups" preventing you from discussing these issues freely and openly as you are able to do here?

Inquiring minds want to know.

MisterMike

Mike the WBCCI does have it's own forum Unfortunately none of the IBT or core leadership of the club will have dialog there either. The moderators are very diligent at keeping the discussions that do take place there in a manor that makes the club look positive. Any objectionable information is gone very quickly. Fortunately THIS forum allows for a more free form of speech. With exception of Dan, those in power have always refrained from any dialog here or else where. An attitude of Polly Anna has always been the norm within the club and as you are reading now, has lead to a grave situation.

[RickDavis]

I have seen numerous examples of censorship of the wbcci forums.

I have been challenged by the supermoderator, by PM. the one who won't sign his name. to back up my claim that the wbcci forums are censored, or at least "overmoderated.. Unfortunately that is hard to do when the posts disappear. but here is an example of one I saved.
Would be interested to know if any one here finds the post in question inflamatory.

Original post under “grievance committee thread 0900PM 9/30/09


I believe the grievance procedure should be completely transparent.

If I feel I have been wronged I have no reason to hide behind confidentiality when filing my complaint.

I suspect that if the system were more open that perhaps some of the frivolous grievances that have been filed recently would not have happened.

The current system and code of ethics are so vague that they have the potential to be used for harassment and to try to silence people who express strong opinions.
Perhaps it is time to go back to dueling pistols
__________________
Rick Davis 1602
Past Pres. VAC 2002-03
61 Tradewind,70 Globetrotter,
69 ambassador, 64 overlander


9;57 pm 9/30/09 PM from CBurke
Rick,

While I can certainly appreciate your frustration that many of us share.
Your comment about dueling pistols was cause for discussion.
We are working hard to keep a level of civility not typically seen in forums these days.
We felt it best to remove that one comment from your recent Grievance thread comment.

We appreciate your understanding in this matter.
__________________
Respectfully,
Charlie Burke
WBCCI #5631

9/30/09 10:21 PM PM from CBurke
Rick,

Sorry to report your last post has been unintentionally deleted.

Please feel free to repost.

Sorry for the mixup.
__________________
Respectfully,
Charlie Burke
WBCCI #5631



Reposted at 05:30 AM 10/01/09 with smiley after dueling pistols



reply to Charlie by PM

Charlie,

I find it hard to believe that anyone would be offended by my tongue in cheek remark about dueling pistols.
I have reposted as originally written, but with the addition of a smiley to eliminate misunderstandings.
Remember those cartoon chipmunks.

Rick

Chipmunk reference is to the old Chip and Dale cartoons where the characters were excessively polite to each other

[Over59]

There are several issues separating the leadership and the agitated members. For example, the leadership and many of the defenders of the norm are interested in passive comforts. They really like sitting in folding chairs listening to over-the-hill singers in a not sound friendly structure. Sitting around a campfire, roasting marshmellows for the kids, singing and making fun of each other is not their thing. Ethical Violation. No potato cannons for them. No clam bake, BBQ, fishfry unless it is "catered". Who with any self respect eats catered food. (Except when the pot luck is ten bowls of the pasta of the day). The kind of experience they seek is different. They want one they can controll. Not that take on a life of their own. People walk in their world, not run with the kids. People are always polite and never express their opinion. Duplicity is the format of all interactions, not relating with all the risks of discomfort and potential for joy that come with it. People like to be stuffed bumps on a log in the status view, and many are so. They like the leming caravans, they really enjoy not having to figure out where to go and how to get their, and what to do, and how much it will cost. They don't understand that someone else may have another way of living because its so much work. But the younger of these people aren't going out and buying Airsteams unless it's in the family, THEY HAVE VIDEO GAMES and chairs with coolers. The "new" members are looking for active experiences. Human interaction. Some are more successful fighting off the passivity thought virus. We all have been infected by it but that's another rant. The forum is a place where those ith some ablility to form a thought of there own have gathered. It's not my canon they cann't have it's my ability to have an independent self formulated opinion.
PS. I'm bringing the mother of all pototo cannons.

[kaffe_1477]

I don't do clubs, mainly for this very reason. I am an Engineer, therefor, I like systems that work the way they are designed to. But due to the fallibility of humans, clubs never will satisfy my need. But I don't like group events anyway, so, like I said, I just wanted the red numbers.

One thing I saw has made me decide I don't need them. I am a board member at my Church (an Elder) and my goal as a board member, is to not operate like our government and to live inside our means. WBCCI does not do that, and that seams childish to me and very disrespectable to the members. They will not get any of my money.

I have no beef in this game, just wanted send my support to Rob, I think you are doing a nobile thing and wish you luck. If you decide to do something cooler than numbers...I might be interested.

[Over59]

Originally Posted by kaffe_1477

I don't do clubs, mainly for this very reason. I am an Engineer, therefor, I like systems that work the way they are designed to. But due to the fallibility of humans, clubs never will satisfy my need. But I don't like group events anyway, so, like I said, I just wanted the red numbers.

One thing I saw has made me decide I don't need them. I am a board member at my Church (an Elder) and my goal as a board member, is to not operate like our government and to live inside our means. WBCCI does not do that, and that seams childish to me and very disrespectable to the members. They will not get any of my money.

I have no beef in this game, just wanted send my support to Rob, I think you are doing a nobile thing and wish you luck. If you decide to do something cooler than numbers...I might be interested.

It there a flag out there with a head shot of Wally?

[silverbear]

Originally Posted by Over59

It there a flag out there with a head shot of Wally?

This is one of my favorite Tee's

Maybe we could ask our forum artist "ArtStream" to do a flag like this.

[Buttercup]

Originally Posted by mistral blue

Please find attached the Mid-Winter Proposed Amendments. I have also attached a Proposed Grievance Bylaw change that Franklin Sanders, our Region 1 President, would not present to the units in our Region because the Ethics and Grievance Committee was not the author.

Sorry - I just read this. Did your unit vote on this and approve it? Doesn't then your Region President HAVE to forward it to the rest of the units? Something like that? I need to look this up, his actions may be improper and itself a grievable matter!

[mistral blue]

Originally Posted by Buttercup

Sorry - I just read this. Did your unit vote on this and approve it? Doesn't then your Region President HAVE to forward it to the rest of the units? Something like that? I need to look this up, his actions may be improper and itself a grievable matter!

This Bylaw change was not voted on/approved by our unit. That is not how things work in this "bottom up" organization when you try to do things from within. Our sacred bylaws may only be handled by the College of Cardinals.

This proposed Bylaw was sent to my Region President (among many others) back in September in the hopes that it could be placed on the Mid-Winter agenda. It was not. I would NOT, however, call this a grievable offense.

[racoco]

You can't even claim membership to this forum on the WBCCI forums without being censored. I simply used the same "signature" on the WBCCI forums as you see here and it was edited for me by Cortes, who informed me the WBCCI forum TOS does not allow the mention of competing clubs or forums. Oh well.... WBCCI leadership doesn't pay attention in their own forum either, so I guess it doesn't matter.

[mistral blue]

Originally Posted by kaffe_1477

I just wanted the red numbers.

I've got extra WBCCI fives, threes and nines kaffe. I'm thinking about just putting the #3 on the front and rear of my Argosy. Nothing is there now. It's the number I wore throughout my schooldaze.

You don't have to be a member of WBCCI to put red, white or even blue numbers on YOUR trailer. You can put on, or take off, anything your heart desires.

Shoot me a PM with your address and I'll send them through the mail.

P.S. I love your signature line.