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Old 01-21-2007, 05:46 PM   #43
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Well, to those who want to dilute an AIRSTREAM club with other brands I will paraphrase Past Intl. Prez Jim Franklin - go join another club. Memberships do make the club but it is an AIRSTREAM club and has been since it's inception.
There is NO valid reason to be taking this step - period.
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Old 01-21-2007, 06:11 PM   #44
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However, the members have one thing in common, love and ownership of Airstreams. Otherwise, it is just an RV club.

Bill
I'm in agreement with you Bill. Love and ownership of Airstreams (which includes Argosys) are what this club is (or was) about.

If we accept non Airstream MHs labeled as "Airstream Editions" then we will not be able to stop the dam from breaking. Within years we will be a general Thor product club. Good for Thor, they get a club with a well defined and financed infrastructure on which to build on. Bad for the leaders of the WBCCI because the folks who purchase non-Airstream Thor products will have no patience for the "traditions" that seem to be so important to our older members and those who are currently in IBT leader positions.

But maybe not all would be lost. I image Airstreams could become a subset of the WBCCI/Thor Product club. We might operate like the VAC. Part of a parent RV club but holding our own rallies and events. I see the International becoming much like the Good Sam Club yearly rally where all members with Thor products are in attendance. This maybe goodness as our International Rally is (IMHO) pretty lame and with additional members (which means $$$$) we'd have better sessions, vendors and entertainment. Caravans will become a mixture of Thor brands, most likely MHs which might make those of us in "tiny" Airstream trailers feel a bit out of place. Of course we may be able to hold our own Airstream only caravans - if a Airstream only sub-club is put into place.

This is not what I would like to see happen. But my leadership did not consider or ask for my point of view before they started down on this non-Airstream MH path.
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Old 01-21-2007, 06:18 PM   #45
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Well now I have to ask ... Is an Argosy an Airstream?
They weren't made in JC. They were "badged," 'Argosy by Airstream'.
Are we being hypocrites? Should Argosies be asked to leave? Or have they effectively been "grandfathered"?
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Old 01-21-2007, 06:34 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by mistral blue
Well now I have to ask ... Is an Argosy an Airstream?
They weren't made in JC. They were "badged," 'Argosy by Airstream'.
Are we being hypocrites? Should Argosies be asked to leave? Or have they effectively been "grandfathered"?
I don't think we are being hypocrites. Argosy was a divison of the Airstream Company. Per "Wanderlust" the CEO of Airstream in the 70s grasped the need to broaden Airstream's base with a medium-price trailer so opened another plant in Versaille, Ohio which was managed by a separate group of executives and manufactured by a separate group of workers. At the end of the day all bills were paid by and profits collected by the Airstream Company.

Oh, if you come to my house and look in my barn you will see my Airstream and my sister's Argosy. They are, beyond question (in my mind anyway) from the same family/company. In fact her 1977 Argosy Minuet has some fantastic features (like wrap around front window) that were later incorporated into the traditional Airstream product line. Thanks to the Argosy my 1993 Airstream Excella has the same, beautiful wrap around window.
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Old 01-21-2007, 06:47 PM   #47
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consider wallys own personal trailers...

were they elite or much different than any other a/s...

not really, and most of his upgrades were all aimed at coping with the elements of travel...

i'm sceptical of the 900#...

that likely includes classic mohos, class b vans and so on...

but, the PRIMARY reason a/s dc'd the big moho...

they were selling TOO FEW to justify the effort...

way less than 100 a year perhaps only a score or 2.

so this badging isn't a thor or a/s issue, once again they are trying to help out...

a few self centered, self serving noise makers.

having attended 1 international it was clearly obvious the wbcci...

is at least 4 clubs...

1. the vac
2. the general membership
3. the few active fun thriving wb units
and
4. the officers club

while the wbcci may be about the people, the officers group in no way relates or represents the average member.

and the vac and 'active units' operate INSPITE OF the officers club...

i cringe to call these officers leaders....they are not.

these folks on the 'officer track' are in it for reasons other than camping or fellowship....

i've often suggested we need a NEW club.

but the fact of the matter is, the officers have already taken the wbcci in a perverted direction...

and THEY ARE THE NEW CLUB...

so what we really need is an 'old club' focused on camping, rallies, travel and good times...

yes the forums more and more serve these goals...

i don't care IF thor rebadges anyother their products, or makes decals that look like rivets...

this badging issue, the name change, the quashing of 4cu and the mis treatment of mals and new members are each examples of the greater problem...

which IS the officers club.

IF it is 900, losing 4-600 of these folks might be the healthiest outcome for the wbcci.

i completely respect b'cup and leo and others who are trying to preserve the tradition and legacy of the original wbcci...

but that legacy and tradition pass DIRECTLY to the folks who gather and camp and travel and use a/s products as intended...

it is simple really...

we are the progeny of wally...

in a way it is now too bad the name change failed,
as i can not imagine the old man having much too do with this moho officer club...


cheers
2air'
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Old 01-21-2007, 06:53 PM   #48
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myboyburt, in my mind they should be in WBCCI too. I have a 77 and absolutely love it. But there is no denying they were not made at JC and that they were not called Airstreams when they were made. I believe it took some 20 years of debate before they were let in to the club after an amendment to the Constitution. Argosys have been (continue to be by some) considered the red-headed stepchild of Airstream. They were badged "Argosy by Airstream." At least that's what it says on mine.
Don't we have somewhat of a similar issue here now? And shouldn't you be watching the Pats kick Indy's butt?
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:04 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by mistral blue
myboyburt, in my mind they should be in WBCCI too. I have a 77 and absolutely love it. But there is no denying they were not made at JC and that they were not called Airstreams when they were made. I believe it took some 20 years of debate before they were let in to the club after an amendment to the Constitution. Argosys have been (continue to be by some) considered the red-headed stepchild of Airstream. They were badged "Argosy by Airstream." At least that's what it says on mine.
Don't we have somewhat of a similar issue here now? And shouldn't you be watching the Pats kick Indy's butt?
I'm listening to the Pats kick Indy's butt. Leon has the game on in the living room which is right outside my office.

True. Argosys were not made in JC, but then again there were early Airstream models built in California too. Bottom line (for me anyway) is both were owned by Airstream and meet the criteria of our club. (Manufactured by Airstream).

Oh, and no worries about being the red-headed stepchild, at least with me. We are from the same family!
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:05 PM   #50
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history is tricky mistral blue...

and so 2 facts...

after the versailles factory closed argosy WAS built in jackson center and on the same line as a/s...

and some of the early a/s mohos were built at the argosy factory in versailles and 'rebadged' airstreams...

but clearly and always argosy was and IS an airstream...

when the ohio factory first opened, a/s were being built in california AND ohio...

as for being allowed IN the club...

argosy or b van or squarestream or classic a/s moho were ALL exluded from the wbcci for years, and until rules allowing these "exceptions"

that IS the poetry of the current issue...
officers now having 'limited' options for new units IF they want to remain club worthy...

cheers
2air'
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:10 PM   #51
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love ya mbb! (yer highness I mean, , or do you go by all powerful Oz these days?)

poetry, yes 2air

and isn't revenge best served on a cold platter?
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:21 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistral blue
Well now I have to ask ... Is an Argosy an Airstream?
They weren't made in JC. They were "badged," 'Argosy by Airstream'.
Are we being hypocrites? Should Argosies be asked to leave? Or have they effectively been "grandfathered"?
There is no requirement that the RV must be made in Jackson Center, only that it is made by Airstream, Inc.

Bill
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:23 PM   #53
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Uh, Doug? I think you're going to find out that the majority of the members that belong to the club that has a requirement that you own an Airstream MANUFACTURED product are going to care.

That common bond is what has held this club together for 52 years.

The kind of club you're talking about is something more along the lines of Tin Can Tourists or Good Sams. There's nothing wrong with either of those two -- this one just happens to be different.

In addition -- if it didn't matter why would our leadership be going to such great lengths to try and get ANYTHING to be named along the lines of Airstream Pie?

Because it does matter Doug -- they're just being deceitful and disingenuous to ALL club members in their attempts to put sheep's clothing on this wolf...

It's no biggy to me that you disagree - just be prepared to be part of the minority on this one...

__
The bottom line is that Thor owns the airstream brand and the WBCCI does not. As I said before, if people don't like how the current stewards tend to the brand they need to take it up via a the route of a share holder.

So to satisfy your argument, Thor must invest vast amounts of money into a purely Airstream MOHO assembly plant. Does that make sense? Why not re-badge a well made brand as an Airstream? What made the Airstream moho so special? Certainly wasn't because it was high-quality.

Going back to my previous statement on brand ownership, I have a hard time understand why members believe they have a say in how Thor should manage the Airstream brand? Why, because you own their product? What do you think Steve Jobs would say if I said I didn't like the iPhone because the device runs a Samsung ARM chip instead of an intel chip... it's not real OS X..... he'd tell me to pound sand. I feel Thor has the same right for non-share holders opinions here.

If you feel that Thor is a bad steward of the Airstream brand, become share holder and voice your opinion at a shareholders meeting. Keep in mind that Thor is out to make a profit not to maintain some type of historic or religious doctrain.

I might be in the minority. Money talks, online alias are just waves in the ether.
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:26 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkerfoot
There is no requirement that the RV must be made in Jackson Center, only that it is made by Airstream, Inc.

Bill
why did it take so long to get gosys in?
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:31 PM   #55
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and isn't revenge best served on a cold platter?
funny how just a word or 2 can change the meaning...

i don't speak sicilian but did see the godfather when it was a new movie...

as i recall it's

"revenge is a dish best served cold"

and i don't think ne1 is trying to inflict revenge on the officers club...

so 'what goes around comes around' might better fit the officer moho fiasco...

cheers
2air'
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:34 PM   #56
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Thor, or even Ford for that matter, can put the Airstream badge on anything they want muddy hollow. WBCCI determines through their Constitution what comes into their club. I just think the MOHO IBT members should recuse themselves in this matter. As far as I'm concerned, they are being totally unethical. There is a clear conflict of interest here, not just the appearance of one. Wouldn't you agree?
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