Four Winds Airstream MH passed at IBT

[Mac1]

Politics, Don't you just love it?
How many Airstream owners are there out there? Are there enough to buy Airstream from Thor? Obviously they are in business to make money and probably don't give a hoot what WBCCI means to its members. Money talks. How about a buy out and a member run business? Stranger things have happened and suceeded?
I was told long ago, you are either part of the problem or part of the solution.
Camping in Airstreams is fun, the members are the treasure.

Mac and Linda

[RedSHED]

I'd be really surprised if this came from Thor. Baldur maybe, but not Thor. Odin wouldn't stand for it.

Seriously, Thor has the most to lose in this. The red number are seen and known about. The silver tube... They've worked hard to preserve the style and expand it.

Maybe I'm wrong, and it probably doesn't matter one way or another, but it sounds like an inside job.

[thecatsandi]

Originally Posted by buckwheat

My wife said it best, "It used to be an elite club, now it's just not special anymore."

Hear! Hear!

I have a problem with this statement. I think the club is something special but if people feel elitist then I am in the wrong club. I removed the big red numbers from the rear of my trailer this afternoon. no ghosting. The front ones will come off when the front segments are replaced. I now have the option of dropping out of the WBCCI with having damaged my trailer.

[wahoonc]

I have remained relatively quiet on this subject... But why the Fourwinds over the Mandalay? The Fourwinds is an ENTRY LEVEL MoHo and a relatively inexpensive one at that. At least the Mandalay is an equivalent product to the formerly produced Airstream Motor Homes. And I will be very surprised to see a Fourwinds last more than a few seasons under normal use. Maybe that was the point behind selecting an inexpensive MoHo...they can get a new one every year I have not been a very active member in the WBCCI for a variety of reasons, and based on what I am hearing and seeing I suspect I may become a non member in the near future. I will still own and use my Airstream(s) because I can appreciate the many benefits of the trailer, but much less the benefits of an organization that cannot even follow it's own rules.

Aaron

[wingfoot321]

I think I will vote with my $75 come this fall.

I haven't signed up for International either because we were planning to go northeast long before July 4th. (Just one of my pet peeves but, caravans starting after Intl is too late in the summer)

I can see this causing an evolution to some other type of organization. Vintage, here I come.

[boblee5244]

I t is my understanding that Mandalay is a division of Four Winds

[lewster]

Hi All,

Very interesting reading. Let me give you a little 'perspective' from my vantage point of being in and around hundreds of RV's every day. In the RV parks here in SW Florida, you see a miniscule amount of Airstreams, including trailers. In the class A-only parks that I service, I have seen only 1 Airstream motor home in 2 years and it was a newer model. Add to that about a dozen silver tubes in the other parks and a couple of A/S classic MoHo's and that makes up the 'Airstream contingent' around these parts. The parks that I service have a total capacity of around 3000 sites.

On the MoHo subject, a Mandalay product is just about 'entry level around here. I've seen just 2 of them. If it's sooooo important for the leaders of the WBCCI to continue in their insulated positions at the top of the club in Moho's that they have to do it by subtrafuge and deceipt, they can have their little feifdom all to themselves.

They have no idea, nor to they probably care what their self serving actions will do to dilute the brand image of 'Airstream'. The Airstream name is an almost universally recognized brand, right up there with Harley-Davidson and Coke. Harley doesn't re-badge other bikes that they don't make and they go so far as to keep their brand 'pure' even though they make and sell the Buell motorcycle right along side the HD's, but they are BUELLs, NOT Harley-Davidsons. The Harley Owners Group (HOG) does not admit Buell owners, even though they are made by Harley!

Thor is a profit driven company and while I think they DO realize what they have in the Airstream brand name, they will not hesitate to do whatever it takes to keep the profits pouring in.

Most folks I talk to recognize an 'Airstream' as a classic aluminum trailer and even ask me "do they still make those?" So I wouldn't worry so much about the masses having the wool pulled over their eyes as I would about losing whatever respect and integrity the WBCCI might have left.

You can be certain of one thing. If the membership approves this latest fiasco, WBCCI will be minus one member (#1032). LONG LIVE THE FORUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know very much if anything about motorhomes but recently while reading the forums on a Fulltiming website someone asked about the quality of certain brands of motorhomes, someone who had been a dealer answered saying of the brands mentioned the would choose any of them over a Thor product saying they were poorly made. Maybe someone with knowledge could comment on this. When it comes to putting the Airstream name on anything other than an Airstream, It all comes down to one thing : money. As crass as the saying is: "Money talks and ALL the other BS walks."

[jimmickle]

If this is the case (poor quality), I will fit in well with Airstream. Airstream does not even know the meaning of the word quality, let alone how to provide it in their products.

[Sugarfoot]

Interesting, several Class A MoHo friends and acquaintences have commented to me on the poor quality of Thor products. One comment I remember in particular, "Thor bought out Airstream didn't they? You know, Thor isn't known for good quality. Wouldn't own one. Pity they don't make Airstreams like they used to."

[Silvertwinkie]

As much as I'd love to agree with you all that Thor blows when it comes to quality, having owned 2 Airstreams so far (one better than the other) and a family member that owns a Hurricane MoHo (Thor built), I just got back from the RV show downtown. None of them are really any good. I was in a 25' FB at the show, it was a SE edition. It had at least 3 rivets missing on the inside. Tons of play in the inside doors and non-centered trim, tables, windows, etc. I didn't find the build month, but at $60k retail, this was a joke. Now, I went into other Thor brands and they were even worse....but I also was in Fleetwood brands and a few other smaller builders and they were total junk as well. The only units that seemed to have their act together were the $450k luxo MoHos....none built by Thor or Fleetwood, the two 800lb gorillas in the market....

[wahoonc]

There are quality RV's out there but they are a very small fraction of the market. Thor and Fleetwood are the 800# gorillas of the market as Silvertwinkie pointed out. They have a bit different MO. Fleetwood basically bought up smaller brands took the name and factory and made generic units with different colors and badging, think Avion. Thor buys up the smaller companies, but allows them at least some independence in their operations as long as they are profitable. More of a holding company if you will. But they are producing low end units and it shows. Number of units produced equals profits, more units more money and worry about QC later. According to some statistics I have seen the average first time buy has done little or no research on the product they purchase, and will be trading up in about 18 months. Some of us do research prior to purchasing. I most likely would not spend the money that a current new Airstream costs on an Airstream...I don't think they are that great a value for the dollar. I would buy used where someone else has taken the depreciation hit tho I honestly believe if Airstream would implement and stick with a good QC program it would be very cost effective in the long run. Right now all they are doing is pushing the name and nostalgia of it. The passing of the MoHo resolution (or whatever it is) is nothing more than good ole boy politics at it's best. At least they could have made it look like they were choosing a better quality product than the basic Four Winds Moho.

Aaron

[ITOWAIR]

I completely understand the goals of the proposed rule change to allow non Airstream Motor homes into the WBCCI . To me it is oblivious that we are having a hard time attracting new members and it is imperative that we do all we can to retain existing members, this inclusion of non Airstream products is a attempt to keep Motor home owners in the club. From the numbers I have seen there are currently approximately 900 Motor home owners currently in the WBCCI, Airstream has announced that they will no longer be manufacturing a Class A motor home, this means that we will no longer be able to offer membership to new motor home owners. This is a loss but a very insignificant one in my opinion This also means that any current members who is Airstream Trailer owners or Motor home Owners would not be able to purchase a new motor home that meets our current membership requirements.

The goal of the rule change should be to take into consideration the needs of current members. The proposed change completely destroys the Brand recognition and loyalty that this club has had for the last 50+ years. Let’s forget about the mistakes that have been made in the past and focus on the current issue before us, we will loose current members due to the lack of a motor home offering by Airstream. Lets not turn this into us v/s them. One day we may all be in those same shoes where it is in our own best interest to travel in a motor home rather than a travel trailer.

Here is my suggestion as the correct way to take care of Current WBCCI members.

1: There already is an option to become a Lifetime Member. Any member in good standing whishing to “upgrade” to a motor home must become a Life Member. This would show a commitment on the part of the member to a part of the club not just a fair weather friend.

2: These members would then make a request to remain members even after they have sold their Airstream. This is also already in the current rules.

3: These members would then be issued a different badge to identify them as and important special part of the current membership. At rallies they are allowed to park in the general population and receive all the benefits and courtesies as all other members. Regardless of what brand of Motor home they have “upgraded” to.

Yes this would result in Non Airstream product being in the WBCCI, however it would be a minimal number, it would not open the floodgates of SOB membership and it would insure that our Current membership is taken care of and allowed to be a part of the club that they are such an important part of. This post is intended to start a constructive discussion as to options since the current IBT motion is still up to the general membership to decide on. We must face the fact that Airstream is currently not manufacturing Motor Homes and that they are a viable part of our current membership.

[Buttercup]

That sounds a little like the grandfathering idea that was suggested earlier....

[wahoonc]

The WBCCI was founded in 1955 with people using trailers. Motor homes were not introduced by Airstream until 1974 (and those were Argosys at that) for more than 20 years people traveled and used trailers. The motor homes that followed were BUILT by Airstream not some other brand. You currently have 900 motor home members (not sure where this number was derived from) and over 6000 total members that means only about 15% actually own a MoHo. If someone wants a non Airstream motor home let them join some other owners club. Airstreams are an unusual and unique product in the whitebox RV world. It does no good to dilute that with a poorly made product from some other manufacturer. (If I were caught diluting a fine scotch whiskey with 15% water I would be run out of town in a heartbeat.) If someone is uncomfortable traveling in a conventional Airstream then maybe it is time for them to find another lifestyle. FWIW two summers ago I was in Myrtle Beach and met two couples both well into their 70's who were 5 star generals and still traveling using a trailer and Suburban setup. Wonderful folks! I don't doubt there need to be some changes in the club, but allowing cheap motorhomes isn't it. Maybe what should happen is if someone "needs" a motor home and wants to stay in the WBCCI they can buy a Classic MoHo and have it completely redone at Jackson Center. No issues with that and they would probably come out money ahead! This is nothing more than good ole boy politics at it's best. I am not much of one on politics but obviously there is something wrong with an organization with as rich a history as the WBCCI being held hostage by a couple of dozen people. Hopefully they will be stopped before the damage is done.

Aaron

[Buttercup]

Aaron,

I am sure this will not fly in any shape or form. This will be presented to the membership and they will have to cast votes that their delegates will carry to Perry this summer. Judging by the very unscientific poll I posted here I am sure that it will be easily defeated.

[LuminumTraila]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

You currently have 900 motor home members (not sure where this number was derived from) and over 6000 total members that means only about 15% actually own a MoHo.

Here are some numbers I'd like to see (verifiable figures, not estimates or guesses):

- the number and percentage of WBCCI member motorhomes v. WBCCI member trailers
- the number of classic motorhome owners
- the number of motorhome owners who agree/disagree with opening up the WBCCI to non-Airstream motorhome owners
- the numbers from surveys that show how many people would buy non-Airstream motorhomes with the Airstream badging on them, and what is there reason for wanting this

I don't think it should be assumed that all WBCCI members who own motorhomes agree with the motion introduced at the winter IBT.

[muddy_hollow]

Who cares if a MOHO is made by airstream or not? Really? What dilution does it really have on the everyday club member? Frankly, I cannot imagine one of these large Mandalay rigs or other large class A attending half of our unit functions. The people who buy these types of rigs are not the weekend get away types, but either full timers or people with a bit of extra cash who would never take their rig into a campground unless the place was wide, level, and had heated toilets.

So what if Airstream puts their name on another product. Folks were all stirred up on the basecamp, now the motorhome and people will continue to get stirred up when the next odd product comes out. What happens if Airstream decides to use composites for the exterior shell with an aluminum finish? Looks the same,but it's not all aluminum.

This discussion is about as worthy as vintage folks arguing about what rig is more orig than the next. Face it folks, as soon as you re-do the frame, add new tanks, or change a fan .... it's not orig... So does that mean that these rigs should not be considered vintage now?

The club needs new members, big trailers or small. If you have an issue with the Airstream brand, buy shares and attend share holder meetings to voice your opinion. Leaving it to a bunch of fools at the IBT to voice your interest is misguided. They'll do what they want and negotiate a good discount on their next trailer from Thor.

If you don't like the club, sounds like an option for a revolution. Start a new club.....


My humble opinion & rant.

Doug

[boblee5244]

Well said, Doug. The members are the club, not motorhomes and trailers

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by boblee5244

Well said, Doug. The members are the club, not motorhomes and trailers

However, the members have one thing in common, love and ownership of Airstreams. Otherwise, it is just an RV club.

Bill