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Old 11-28-2008, 09:34 PM   #85
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I haven't seen any previous evidence in this thread of any declared hatreds and I was wondering if you were making an asumption. I was wondering if you were making a value judgement from a difference of opinion and wondered how such a fun guy could make such a spurious accusation on the basis of what has preceded. But your response has satisfied me. Thank you .
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:14 PM   #86
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I think we are saying the same things Ed. Have you had a change of heart? You no longer think the WBCCI needs updating? changing? I remember distinctly when we were in agreement.... What is the contention you have now for those who mirror your opinions?

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286/2009-international-madison-wi-43369.html

Madison Rally Cost
The cost for the rally is really getting out of hand. $255 just to run my AC plus the parking/rally fee is just crazy. I figure I'll be there about 7 days, I can go to a full service campground for that same fee AND get cable!

Other than than getting together with the people we know the International is not meeting my vacation needs. The cost, the way it is run and the locations picked needed to be looked at to draw the "New Airstreamer".

The point I am trying to make is that for the WBCCI and the International Rally to survive the location AND the activities need to draw those of us that still work and use our vacation time to attend. I no longer have any desire to attend Business Meetings at these functions, its a waste of time. At the IBTs meetings its all about nothing, they are not moving the club into what will appeal to the "New Airstreamer".

I for one will not use my vacation time to attend an International in a place that does not offer a "Vacation Attitude" any more. They need to step it up with these events and cut the costs.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286/wbccis-new-membership-policy-43516.html#post590161

[quote He come from a mentality of a strong militaristic stance - remember him telling people to "stand down" at the 2006 delegates meeting. Who says "stand down"?
[/quote]

I think that was Don S and not Jim F but I could be wrong. but a Stand Down is a Stand Down.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286/july-4th-parade-bozeman-unit-floats-39354.html#post512030

Fight
I think they are NOT worth fighting for, they ( the leadership that needs to go) but the club is worth fighting for. We need to take a stand and let them know that they can't keep doing stupid things. The leadership needs to be called out every time they do something dumb. I don't plan on going anywhere, but the leadership of the WBCCI needs to know that they can't keep doing these odd things and think that we are going to stand by and take it.

Join the WBCCI and change the future of the club.

Come join me and fight "Flag Flying" WBCCI oppression! Its a MOVEMENT!

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286/tuxedos-mandated-in-bozeman-35986.html

The "prom" is one event that I don't see the need for, at least in its current format. That is my beef, if you have not attended then you need to go and see it for yourself, then make your decision. Go in business casual, that way you won't feel out of place when attending. If you have not attended you need to to see this, the meet and great after the big dinner. Then after that come back to this tread and let us know what you think.

No one should hold off joining the WBCCI because of this thread, heck its just a couple of people pointing out what they see in need of fixing. There are a lot of good things that people miss by not joining and some things that are in need of repair but we need you to join to help us do that.

The WBCCI is a good place to be, its just in need of some adjustments.
Ed

I believe Jerry's heart is in the right place but he is listening to the wrong people. These people are likely the same ones that brought us the "SOB motohome" and the "Airstream Owners Association" proposals in the last two years. In the end, votes of the general membership proved these people are in the minority. They are also the people who have led the club down a twenty year path of declining membership.

PeeWee's archive pictures do show that years ago the leadership did wear white dinner jackets to the installations. Early "70's Airstream ads also show ladies in nylons and heels serving gourmet meals in their Airstreams. I admit. I wore a tux to my wedding 38 years ago and to my daughter's wedding 14 years ago as well as wearing three piece suits to company meetings 20 years ago. I think that kind of dress code has its place and I will likely be buried in a suit. I do not think "POMP" fits that well with "Fun, Fellowship and Adventure" in a camping club.

I think the recent votes and membership trends show that a more casual atmosphere is more in line with what the general membership wants. The more progressive subgroups within WBCCI including: the Vintage Airstream Club, New England Unit, Four Corners Unit, and Save Wally, better represent the majority of the members' desires for the future of the club. I hope Jerry, (when he helps select people for the new "Long Term Strategy Committee",) will be listening to the right people and the committee is given the power to implement improvements to how the club is run.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286/not-another-wbcci-committee-36613.html#post460398

Who Pissed in My Cornflakes?
Leo, Yep you got it right and that is my biggest complaint, no change in the way things are done to enhance the club. This committee is all smoke and mirrors and a big waste. As Shari and you stated we had this under Don and it was getting some great ideas from the membership why start over. I guess those of us that were on it are not worthy to provide ideas to this new President and he wants his own 5. Hey I guess every President wants to make his mark, but to study (again) and not take action is a waste.

To make things sadder is seems that we are in the minority, I think those that are members and don’t get real involved don’t see a need for change. But then again they also don’t pay attention to the reduction of numbers in membership, the struggle that some units have just to survive and fill the officer positions; the Unit is the lifeblood of the club. Each his own but if someone doesn’t say something (and it seems it needs to be said over and over and over) and get the leadership to understand there is a new generation of Airstream owner out there the club will die, period.

Jim, who pissed in my Cornflakes? I’ll tell you who, those that sit in the sidelines and don’t get involved, those who don’t understand that the declining membership of the WBCCI means death to my club. Leadership who is stuck in the 60’s, leadership who is afraid to make a change but will spend years studying it, leadership who only care about their self interests and not that of the club (can you say Motor Home Vote), that don’t care about the core traditions that this club was founded on. Who pissed in my Cornflakes? Wasted time on useless things that will not help this club and most of all people who want to put their heads in the sand and say all is ok. I think that I have enough “time in grade” to see things as they are and feel I have a right as a long time WBCCI member to speak out. But what you also have to understand Jim is I don’t sit on the sidelines and bitch, I get right in the ring with them and slug it out. The “Value”? Wow I don’t know, but I’ll tell you one thing I have spent years supporting the club and being asked by my fellow members to continue to do so. I’ll let it go at that.

Hey, if you don’t like what I have to say, don’t read my posts, my name is right there, no handles for me, you know who I am.. Hey it’s America you are free to do as you see fit!

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286/not-another-wbcci-committee-36613.html#post460398

Not Another WBCCI Committee!
Those of you that are WBCCI members have probably received October’s issue by now, did you read page 10? The article called “Special Committee for Long Range Planning” just boils my blood. The leadership of the IBT wants to put together a committee to look 5-10-even 15 years down the road. They want people to submit a resume and a cover letter stating their goals and objectives for this committee and the IBT will pick the best 5 for the job. Now there will be the “Chosen Five”, blessed by the IBT and controlled by the IBT, boy that will generate “new” ideas!

This committee’s first task is to set their own goals and objectives, then work on the long range plan, WRITE A WBCCI MISSION STATEMENT, and determine or core values and Goals! Didn’t we do this once, twice three times already? Don’t they have enough ideas, hey IBT read these Forums!

What a waste, time is running and the IBT is putting together a committee to keep from making a decision on change, change that everyone is crying for. I say put a committee together now, volunteers not resumes, take as many as you can get, focus on today not 15 years from now, and make a damn decision already.
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:21 PM   #87
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I haven't seen any previous evidence in this thread of any declared hatreds and I was wondering if you were making an asumption. I was wondering if you were making a value judgement from a difference of opinion and wondered how such a fun guy could make such a spurious accusation on the basis of what has preceded. But your response has satisfied me. Thank you .
What's it take to see that some just don't like the club? A plane pulling a banner? A neon sign? A tattoo that reads " I pay my dues just so I have the right to bitch"
As far as a fun guy, I don't think we know each other well enough for you to know that.

There are those of us that work for the club and paid our dues, please don't try to claim to understand what that is all about.

BTW the shot was not aimed at you but it seems to hit a nerve.

Again its all about the product and the people, the politics got old a long time ago. My goal is to draw more people to the WBCCI, I really don't have the energy to fight anymore. So its time for me to continue to restore my trailers and help others do the same. Its time to share with others what the WBCCI has to offer, not to keep looking for each and every thing to complain about.

Its time to support the club, forget the BS and go out and see what is over the next hill or around the next curve.

Don't go hunting unless its for the next Airstream to save.
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:26 PM   #88
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Why I don't belong to the local unit, my trailer HAS WHEELS. A past pres of WDCU.
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:41 PM   #89
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Opinions can vary and opinions can be critical. People do disagree, no foul in that. Please note, no WBCCI member or leader has actually been injured in the preceding dramatization.
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:43 PM   #90
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I think we are saying the same things Ed. Have you had a change of heart? You no longer think the WBCCI needs updating? changing? I remember distinctly when we were in agreement.... What is the contention you have now for those who mirror your opinions?

.
Wow, I'm glad you do your research, I'm confused that you find me really worth the time to study.

I'll keep this real short, I'm not going to take any more pot shots at the club. I think that things do need to change but standing on the outside and throwing stones won't help. The politics have gotten old, real old and heck nobody really cares what I think (or for that matter what you think) anyway. So with that I think I need to look at what is important, keeping my job, putting my kids through college, making sure my 401 K will allow me to retire, loose 10 pounds so my doctor will quite bitching about my BP, figuring a way to park # 4 without getting thrown out of my neighborhood, booking my hotels for next week's work and talking Sandy into making her meat loaf for dinner.

THIS IS A HOBBY, that is it. What you do, what I say, what the leaders of the WBCCI decide don't matter, IT'S A HOBBY. Its not life or death, and I really don't care what you think of me or what you think of my actions, ITS MY HOBBY not my life and your thoughts and comments don't matter.

I am flattered that you follow everything I say on this or other forums but to be honest, I can't remember where I was yesterday let alone find the past posts I made on this list, or even care. I am glad for you, that you have the time and energy to attack me, but really, get a life.

As my daddy always said, don't put a tandem load on a single axle ass, this WBCCI politics stuff is getting real heavy and my single axle ass if over loaded with REAL stuff that needs my attention.
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Old 11-29-2008, 01:59 AM   #91
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I have not attacked anyone. I have merely quoted your own words to remind you that good people can want change and are not deserving of being accused of hatred.
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Old 11-29-2008, 03:30 AM   #92
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I hope a moderator steps in here and closes this thread down... it has just gotten way off kilter again.

Why do all WBCCI conversations go this way? A battle for who is the "righterest"... Why is that the common route it takes?

Why would someone go back and take someone's past posts out of that context and put them into this one?

Why does a positive charge attract and negative one repel?

Why do I actually care when my experience has been so excellent?
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Old 11-29-2008, 05:12 AM   #93
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This thread started out regarding none WBCCI members attending rallies. I would propose that non-member airstreamers be allowed at International/National events at a higher participation fee. Airstream owners are basically fun people, and, should not be excluded. But, they would see that in addition to the obvious, there is also a financial reward for joining(or maintaining) the WBCCI.

As for the direction of the club, accurate communication is poor. Who knows what is actually going on and what to believe? Technology would help. We saw the political candidates this year use the internet like never before. Blogs, forums, and especially entities like You-Tube should be embraced.

Folks will generally be working longer until retirement. Social security eventually will kick in at age 70. Younger campers need weekend and long holiday events, flexible arrival hours, 30 amps, and modern activities.

Governance at any level is now expected to be transparent. Full unedited transcripts of important meetings should be posted within a week or two.

Just my thoughts......
Tom
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:21 AM   #94
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Its OK

Dear friends--please do not close this kind of debate

The last thing "we" need is "censorship to protect someones state of mind"---I am fully capable of censoring , [ With a smile and a mouse click], those that speak out of anger , unsupported facts, or bias and those who are right on point, thank you.

As a MAL I find it interesting to hear about the pros and cons of all these debates---It helps me define exactly what is important to me---and censoring just turns off the lights......I really dig my 71 safari and these forums--thanx--jim
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Old 11-29-2008, 08:01 AM   #95
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I am sitting in my trailer this morning, waiting for the sun to rise. We are having a terific rally here in Quartzsite, Arizona. Great fun and great friends. In the last two days we all ate too much, laughted a lot, and toasted all of our friends who could not make it to this beautiful desert location. Looking forward to a little desert golf today, just hanging with all my friends and the world famous 4CU campfire. This is what the club is all about.
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Old 11-29-2008, 09:01 AM   #96
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For those who are not capable of coming, Wheres the pic of the campfire??
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Old 11-29-2008, 11:20 AM   #97
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Maybe it's none of my business, but when I read the threads about the WBCCI, perhaps I have the same reaction as other "new Airstreamers"—why would I want to get involved in a club where people are arguing all the time? I'm sure it's not all the people and it's not all the time, but it sure feels like it. I'm not blaming anyone or any side. But, this kind of arguing only happens when an organization is in trouble.

Too bad I can't join the 4CU without joining WBCCI. 4CU sounds like my kind of club and they don't seem to fight each other and I don't have a tuxedo (I guess you don't really need one as a WBCCI member, do you?).

Why do I bother reading these threads? I've always been interested how communities function and have had jobs where that was part of what I did, so observing this community in its dysfunctional phase is fascinating. My most fundamental observation is that hardly anyone who posts likes how WBCCI is run and yet it doesn't change—my guess is it will change eventually, either by dissenters organizing and taking over or by collapsing. Too soon to say.

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Old 11-29-2008, 11:43 AM   #98
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This doesn't get said often enough. At the rallies I attend there isn't any disagreement or dissention. We just have fun in each others company and should anyone ever have a problem, they have the rest of us to come to their aid and comfort with help, advice and/or support.

This is the first time I've ever responded to this topic. There are numerous things I haven't supported over the years I've been a member of the WBCCI. Everything with which I disagree has all been at the International level. I've voted my belief each time and so far each of the proposals for which I've been against have been defeated. That's certainly a better percentage than I've enjoyed with national politics over the years. We don't all agree on national politics, but that shouldn't be any incentive for not participating in our local churches and communities or not voting in local, state and national elections. The same can be said for the WBCCI. One shouldn't have much to do with the other. Now I'll get off my soapbox.
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