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Old 12-01-2009, 08:11 PM   #113
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All in time

HowieE,
That was my thought, contact everyone in a leadership roll of a unit, Prez, 1stVP, 2ndVP and the “TREASURE” who understands the $$$ and cents of the matter.

If someone can provide all the email and/or address (via snail mail) of the unit leaderships, that to me that would be a great help. I currently have someone working on the “wording” of the petition and what should be required by the IBT/EC7. I hope to have that within a few days/week (just asked them last night for the help). After getting that back, I will post it for everyone to see and make comments.

Atobols, (Jason & Andrea)
Thanks so much for finding those sites! I also heard that “Google Docs” (which I know nothing about) offers a free service that will also input all the data into a spreadsheet. Since I don’t know what you found, just relaying a message told to me about the service.
Since all I can do is create a website on “yahoo.com”, it would be a good idea for you to “PM” Buttercup because they have the brains that I don’t about this online stuff. The two of you are welcome to workout what you guys/gals think is best.

I’m going to find out the cost to have a “postcard” size mailer done and sent out to the Unit Leadership. Email will be great to save a few dollars, but my guess not all unit leaders have email. It appears the cost for postage is about 0.28 cents, so for around $300.00 bucks I can have the 1000 cards printed and mailed or about $180.00 for 500.
If I get the chance to go by the post office this week, I’ll ask about bulk mailing, 2nd or 3rd class mail to save a few dollars. I also want to check on the cost of a return postage setup.

I heard tonight the WBCCI has about $790,000 in the bank, from that you take away the $80K over budget this year + the $60K loss on Madison = $160K, subtract that from the $790K= $650K. (these number are a guess) "NO ONE" in there right mind would burn through "20%" of their holdings in one year like that!

I fully understand, we will not get 1000+ to sign over night, this could take up to a year, but we have got to start somewhere. After we get the wording, it will be important for "EVERYONE" who cares, to take a copy of the petition whenever they go to a rally and ask memebers to sign it!!

We will win, we will be the turtle, not the hare.

Slow and Steady,



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Old 12-01-2009, 08:16 PM   #114
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Howie,

I think that information is on line at the WBCCI site, the units and officers, inc. tel #s.

Kate
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Old 12-01-2009, 08:28 PM   #115
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I’m going to find out the cost to have a “postcard” size mailer done and sent out to the Unit Leadership. Email will be great to save a few dollars, but my guess not all unit leaders have email. It appears the cost for postage is about 0.28 cents, so for around $300.00 bucks I can have the 1000 cards printed and mailed or about $180.00 for 500.
If I get the chance to go by the post office this week, I’ll ask about bulk mailing, 2nd or 3rd class mail to save a few dollars. I also want to check on the cost of a return postage setup.
Paul, it's not cost effective at all, I do a fair amout of retail marketing snail mail is not the way to try this IMO.

Moreover, your not going to get 1,000 out of a 1,000, most direct mail experts will be happy with a 5% return.

(bulk mail will not work well unless the people are within nearby zip codes, also bluk mail is viewed as junk mail)

You need email to send 6,000 at a time, if unit leaders don't have email then use mail for those few.

How about asking Andy R for our own forum?
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Old 12-01-2009, 08:35 PM   #116
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My point is all those things have to be analyzed to come up with what's going on, and what's the best way to run the financial side of an organization. I see clearly the travel expenses issue energizes people, but it's most likely one part of financial mismanagement. Financial matters are boring to most people and travel money is not—it gets them angry. Good to use the travel $ thing to point to the overall mismanagement, but mismanagement is the issue. A copy of an audit may have some very interesting things in it. Any halfway responsible nonprofit has periodic audits done by an independent accounting firm—if they don't, another ex. of mismanagement; if its good audit, you may learn more bad stuff.

Gene
Gene,

Unlike others, my professional career has taught me that financial information is to be confidential. I am hesitant to discuss the details of WBCCI finances on a public forum such as this.

Bill
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Old 12-01-2009, 10:53 PM   #117
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I am thinking LI Pets (BOB) is correct. You are definitely not going to get 1000 signatures out of a 1000 cards sent .A portion of the people who are sent cards are ON THE TAKE of that alledged 125K in travel expenses and are definitely not going to cut their own throat.
WAKE UP AMERICA!
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:17 PM   #118
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IMHO:

Trying to contact all members to find the 1000 is not a very productive 1st step.

Contacting the leaders of the individual units to take a pulse would give a sense of what has to take place to get enough people on board to effect change.

We may "think" there are thousands who feel the same way about the WBCCI but in truth no one knows if there is enough upset members to force a change in by-laws or even get a partition off the ground.

The 1st step in determining what kind of support is behind the movement.

The leaders of the progressive units need to get on a conference call or some other means to discuss the best method of how and who to contact at the "other" units. A follow up conference call to tally up what they collectively found out, decide the next step, recommendations what format is to be used to communicate to the rest of us going forward and call for volunteers to assist if there is a good chance of success.

Also you can bet this will stir up the pot and the current lords of the WBCCI will know there is a serious move underfoot and start trying to find ways to counter the effort.
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Old 12-02-2009, 06:11 AM   #119
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I think Garry has made a very good point. I am very doubtful you will get 1000 signers even if you contact all 6000 members.

I also think you might not find the support within your own unit Paul. Three of the points on Robs list were requested to be brought before the Unit for consideration at the business meeting during Installation. That was a formal request made by our past president read aloud to the unit by me. Three totally different motions were sent out for review in the last news letter. Not sure where the motions went that were requested in writing and in person.

Just because we are incensed by what is going on, not everyone is. Many current presidents will not want to cause waves while they hold the seat. Sorry to shed negative feelings about this plan, I just want to be realistic about the support base. Yes, the four or five WDCU members talking on this thread are all for the changes, not everyone will be on board. You do realize Paul our own president is going to Gillette this summer. She is actually very excited to be going. Thinks that her presence representing the WDCU there will make a huge difference.

I think the first step is to determine the amount of support we do have.
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Old 12-02-2009, 06:20 AM   #120
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How about an ad in the Blue Barret?

Will they take/run it?
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:10 AM   #121
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Howie,
I think that information is on line at the WBCCI site, the units and officers, inc. tel #s.
Kate
I looked for this information but did not find it.

However I did find the "2009 Mid Winter Report". Have any of you red it? Who ever wrote that report could already be on our side.

http://www.wbcci.org/documents/New%20Directions%202.doc
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:10 AM   #122
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Gene,

Unlike others, my professional career has taught me that financial information is to be confidential. I am hesitant to discuss the details of WBCCI finances on a public forum such as this.

Bill
Bill, the financial information of a nonprofit should be available to members of the organization. They should be able to do an analysis of the information and comment on the wisdom of the leadership as stewards of the organization.

Depending on the type of entity it is, financial information may or may not be public. A sole proprietorship's info is confidential. But a nonprofit, because of the tax breaks it gets, has to release more info to the public, plus the members (like stockholders in a corporation) have access to the books. Some info seems to be public already, some may be available if asked for.

There are a lot of statements about WBCCI finances, primarily about reserves and travel expenses. It's important if people are to challenge the financial stewardship of the organization's leaders that they have accurate information and present it clearly. That's why I suggest finding a CPA to gather it all together and analyze it. A CPA should know what can and what cannot be discussed publicly and advise people accordingly. Of course, the question is whether there is a CPA willing to donate time who is an Airstream owner and dissatisfied with the WBCCI leaders. There are others capable of analyzing the numbers, but a CPA has the authority that goes with the title.

Gene
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:38 AM   #123
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Bill, the financial information of a nonprofit should be available to members of the organization. They should be able to do an analysis of the information and comment on the wisdom of the leadership as stewards of the organization.

Depending on the type of entity it is, financial information may or may not be public. A sole proprietorship's info is confidential. But a nonprofit, because of the tax breaks it gets, has to release more info to the public, plus the members (like stockholders in a corporation) have access to the books. Some info seems to be public already, some may be available if asked for.

There are a lot of statements about WBCCI finances, primarily about reserves and travel expenses. It's important if people are to challenge the financial stewardship of the organization's leaders that they have accurate information and present it clearly. That's why I suggest finding a CPA to gather it all together and analyze it. A CPA should know what can and what cannot be discussed publicly and advise people accordingly. Of course, the question is whether there is a CPA willing to donate time who is an Airstream owner and dissatisfied with the WBCCI leaders. There are others capable of analyzing the numbers, but a CPA has the authority that goes with the title.

Gene
Gene,

As I stated in post 118, the financial information is available to members, just ask. If I understand your post, you are asking for this information to be discussed on an open forum in front of and with non-members. I believe that this is inappropriate. WBCCI is a membership organization and as such differs from other non member non profit organizations such as the Red Cross. I don't believe that financial information of any member only organization should be discussed on an open forum with non members participating.

Bill
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:45 AM   #124
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Gene,

If I understand your post, you are asking for this information to be discussed on an open forum in front of and with non-members.
Bill
Bill, what I am suggesting is that the info be analyzed by an expert. Whenever challenging leadership about their actions, it's best to have your info correct.

Whether that info should be shared outside membership is a different question. That question is best answered by lawyers familiar with the laws of the state where the WBCCI is organized; I have only stated general principles of law in my post above. However, when there is a dispute between members and leadership of an organization, it is fair to presume a lot of info will be talked about openly whether or not it is legal, moral and wise—that's just reality.

This thread and others shows that info is being discussed openly, although I do not know whether that info is accurate. Having an expert analyze data may help with clarity and accuracy, something I hope everyone would support.

Gene
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:11 AM   #125
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I have been keeping up with this thread on both the wbcci forum and this forum and agree with Gene. If this is to take place everything needs to be in order, checked and double checked with lawyers and CPA's. I also see this as an out in left field agenda. Wouldn't it be best to make it a petition that Aunt Mary in Ohio would want to sign. Think cutting travel cost in half first year. No Rally fee reimbursement. Just my thoughts.
Sincerely,
Aunt Mary in Ohio who winters in Florida
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Old 12-02-2009, 01:35 PM   #126
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Howie,

Go to WBCCI.org
near the top are several categories...open regions/units
open a region
it will list the head chairman, address, tel, email, website
below are the units, membership chairman, tel
many units have their own websites which you can open and get further info

Good Luck
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