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Old 11-29-2009, 08:28 PM   #85
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Everything you want to tackle is bylaws. The link/attachment in post #79 has the most simplistic changes that gives the membership access to the bylaws. That has to be passed, club-wide 1st.
Fine but just tell the readers what the steps are please, their units may wish to do the same
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:30 PM   #86
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We can call a "Special Meeting"

In my “old age” I am slipping, I should have known this was in the WBCCI Constitution off the top of my head and for that again, I am sorry.

If one reads the WBCCI Constitution, under Article IX, Sec 2: it reads,

“The Board of Trustees shall have supervision over the financial affairs of the Club including the adoption of a budget, and it shall designate the bank or other depositories in which funds of the Club are to be deposited, and shall designate the persons who shall draw funds there¬upon. The Board of Trustees shall have supervision over all real and personal property of the Club, including the disposal and distribution thereof in the event of the Dissolu¬tion of the International Club or a Unit thereof, except a unit incorporated in another state or province, all within Section 1702.49 of the Ohio Revised Code. It may hold meetings at a time and place designated by the President and special meetings may be called by the President or by eleven (11) members of the Board of Trustees or at the signed request of one thousand (1000) members in good standing. (7/1/86)”

So, if you were to get 10-15 of the largest units calling for a “Special Meeting” to discuss this matter, I think it would put the IBT on notice of they had better get their act together.

Though I would “never” speak for the membership of any unit, we know the “WDCU” has well over 100+ members add to that the “Ontario Unit” which also has over 100+ members (Oh, I think, they have also in the past sent a letter to the IBT asking “What’s going on with this club?”) between those two units alone, you have about 25% of the needed members to sign the request for the meeting.

It “does not” say that all 1000 members have to be present “at” the meeting.

My guess, you start circulating a petition around to the large units, you’d get you 1000 signed request real quick! Maybe in 1986 they saw this coming and knew there would be a time when the masses would have to step-up as a group and ask for change!
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:26 PM   #87
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I as a remote WDCU member would sure like to be able to sign as well!
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:26 PM   #88
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More observations from the peanut gallery...

I'm not going to try to quote-post everything I'm drawing on here, but here's my perspective right now:

A group approaches the IBT with a laundry list of corrections / demands they they want to see made and threaten to "quit the club" if the demands are not met. Scenario 1: IBT listens and says OK. Scenario 2: IBT boots the subordinate units and the new units are now banded together and start a new AS'ing group. Either way, win-win.

A group of existing units just flat-out tells IBT / WBCCI national that they quit. They're not interested in being part of WBCCI as a result of how things continue to be run. Scenario 1: IBT says, "Oh crap" and immediately asks the unit presidents to chat. Scenario 2: IBT says they don't care, good riddance, and the group forms a new AS'ing club. Again, win-win.

A group collects 1000 member signatures (which, sadly, would be 17% of the total membership) and demands a special meeting to talk. Therein one of my previous two paragraphs would transpire, most likely the former and the two possible scenarios would once again be the paths.

Seems to me it's kinda clear. Either we hash up this conversation everytime there's a new grievance filed within the WBCCI or someone goes to Int'l and gets PO'd because of the proceedings, etc. etc or we finally do something about it. There's been great ideas posted here, they just need action. I'm ready to sing my name on the list of 1000. Given my lack of clout within WBCCI or even my unit for that matter, I don't feel I can do much more. But, I'm open to help whereever I can. I just think that presidents of units would make much better signatures on papers to IBT than my signature.

FYI, there's been other major clubs where a large faction didn't like how things were going and branched off. GWRRA and GWTA; the latter is the "new" and "less political" club. Many people were members of both orgs. Both still survive today, to my knowledge. Same with BMWMOA and BMWRA; the latter is the newer and less formal. The former is backed by BMW-USA and again many people are members of both groups. So, it's possible that the WBCCI and a new club would co-exist and that WBCCI would continue and there would be people interested in being members of both.
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:54 PM   #89
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...A group collects 1000 member signatures (which, sadly, would be 17% of the total membership) and demands a special meeting to talk.
A thousand is a pretty ambitious goal. You've got about 30 folks taking part in this thread, and about the same number of total active posters over on SaveWally.
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:41 PM   #90
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Those folks certainly don't sound like the kind of people whose club anyone would want to join. No wonder it's a friends and family plan.
Is there no one part of the IBT that will stand up , speak and try to garner support for what is right? I find it odd that only members speak their mind and that the leadership maintains total silence even with the advent of their constructed forum to protect against attacks. Yes stand up kind of people need to come forward. It's long overdue.
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:42 PM   #91
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In the case of WBCCI and what Paul is talking about here, I don't think the first option or idea is to drop out of the club, but rather to let the leadership know that it simply is not a vocal minority that has serious concerns about the direction the club is going and that a more precipitous action is needed to stop the decline in membership and club funds.

However, if that many people DO put their name to the list of those who are concerned, eventually the club has to listen. And, to lose 1000 members will not help the club in any way - in fact, it will be quite damaging to say the least! Because, if that happens, the cash crunch deepens immediately, and that will likely mean a call for an increase in membership dues which is almost certainly likely to cause another drop in the membership numbers.

In every venue that members have tried to voice concerns, leadership has found a way to ignore those concerns - surveys, polls, votes - whatever - the leadership sees what it wants to see. But 1000 people standing up is quite a powerful statement indeed. I think that it can be done. I think it SHOULD be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atobols View Post
I'm not going to try to quote-post everything I'm drawing on here, but here's my perspective right now:

A group approaches the IBT with a laundry list of corrections / demands they they want to see made and threaten to "quit the club" if the demands are not met. Scenario 1: IBT listens and says OK. Scenario 2: IBT boots the subordinate units and the new units are now banded together and start a new AS'ing group. Either way, win-win.

A group of existing units just flat-out tells IBT / WBCCI national that they quit. They're not interested in being part of WBCCI as a result of how things continue to be run. Scenario 1: IBT says, "Oh crap" and immediately asks the unit presidents to chat. Scenario 2: IBT says they don't care, good riddance, and the group forms a new AS'ing club. Again, win-win.

A group collects 1000 member signatures (which, sadly, would be 17% of the total membership) and demands a special meeting to talk. Therein one of my previous two paragraphs would transpire, most likely the former and the two possible scenarios would once again be the paths.

Seems to me it's kinda clear. Either we hash up this conversation everytime there's a new grievance filed within the WBCCI or someone goes to Int'l and gets PO'd because of the proceedings, etc. etc or we finally do something about it. There's been great ideas posted here, they just need action. I'm ready to sing my name on the list of 1000. Given my lack of clout within WBCCI or even my unit for that matter, I don't feel I can do much more. But, I'm open to help whereever I can. I just think that presidents of units would make much better signatures on papers to IBT than my signature.

FYI, there's been other major clubs where a large faction didn't like how things were going and branched off. GWRRA and GWTA; the latter is the "new" and "less political" club. Many people were members of both orgs. Both still survive today, to my knowledge. Same with BMWMOA and BMWRA; the latter is the newer and less formal. The former is backed by BMW-USA and again many people are members of both groups. So, it's possible that the WBCCI and a new club would co-exist and that WBCCI would continue and there would be people interested in being members of both.
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Old 11-30-2009, 06:12 AM   #92
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No one says it has to be put before them at the WBCCI Gillette International. My guess, it could take up to a year to get the signatures which could be done via a combination of “on-line”, email, paper, etc… A great time would have been during the install rallies of the many units, but that time has past.

Remember, you have the Florida State Rally coming up in February with 400+ units, how many people do you think would be “un-willing” to sign a petition calling for a “special meeting” to calling for the “OVER SPENDING TO STOP”? I can’t think of anyone that would say, “No, I really want the spending to continue”.

Leo, are you sure about the whole meeting agenda thing and who controls it?

I’m sure by now, they already know about this thread or soon will, which is great! I hope they do. If you in your post want them to think we feel, “There’s no way we can get the numbers, they control the meeting, etc..” keep posting that way, and they have won before this thread goes off to the “We need to fix the WBBCI” heap-pile.

We keep pushing forward along with the changes Leo is talking about for a one/two punch!

Stay strong, we’re not going to get this turned around in one month, it may take a year or more. We just need to let the IBT 1st, 2nd or 3rd VP know their cash maybe not be there by the time they become President.

We need to let them know this is “OUR” club just like it is “THEIRS”. And we don’t want them running our half in the ground.
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Old 11-30-2009, 06:24 AM   #93
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A thousand is a pretty ambitious goal. You've got about 30 folks taking part in this thread, and about the same number of total active posters over on SaveWally.
Lynn
1000 signatures are required for a special meeting per WBCCI Constitution, under Article IX, Sec 2 as posted by rideair in post #95 in this thread. It's not a goal number that I made up...it's required if there is to be a special meeting.

As rideair pointed out, there's a couple units with 100+ membership. It's not just 30 people talking here that would like change in the WBCCI. The notification of a movement just has to be brought to their attention. Honestly, if I weren't sitting around on a long holiday weekend with nothing much else to do, I never would have checked out the new posts section of the forums. In doing so, I found this thread and the sub-discussions in other threads. I'm sure there's other forum participants that haven't even been privy to the discussion that would like to participate.
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:41 AM   #94
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We can get a 1000 if we try!

Buttercup,




A couple of questions:
  • Is there a process to have something inserted in to the Vintage Advantage?
  • If someone/group wanted to have a “postcard” size card placed into the VA is that possible?
  • What kind of cost would it be to have a “postcard” mailer printed and placed in the VA?
  • Do you know the cost of “pre-paid” postage for a card like that and is there a charge for only ones sent back? If, one chooses to make it a pre-paid card?
If I remember correctly, the VAC has about 600+ members. Depending on the “OK” from the VAC Leadership and the cost, this might be a great way of getting to over 600+ members real quick! Add to that, the FSR (Florida State Rally) coming up along with some of the larger units, you’re getting to over a 1000 real quick! For that matter, it might be worthwhile to contact “Airstream Life” about the cost of putting in a postcard size insert in that magazine.
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:23 AM   #95
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Apres moi le deluge

"After me the flood" actually said by Jeanne Poisson, Marquise de Pompadour, mistress of Louis XV - though usually attributed to Louis XV.

That story ended in the French Revolution, the guillotine, and then Napoleon Bonaparte. And then... well that wasn't pretty either.

Humans are hardwired to resist change. It's true. The first year of marriage is the most stressful, being in a strange city is stressful, having a new computer system at work is stressful, trusting a new version of Windows is stressful....

The IBT resists change - three reasons
  1. humans are biologically hardwired to resist change
  2. fear of subsequent loss of control
  3. their personal gravy train ends
Now, in their defense... they've "put in their time" and everyone who came before them and put in their time received the same rewards that THEY actually believe they've earned through years of service. It's called "entitlement" and it's the same reason we have some folks who are 4th generation welfare recipients.

Most of us have personally been affected by technological changes - we've beend downsized, rightsized or retrained two or three times because the economy has changed... and we all fight it. Locally, 1500 workers were "blindsided" when the local Ford plant closed - even though rumors were floating 3 years before it happened, NO one had refrained from buying a new house or cut back expenditures, or told their 16 year old that he'd need a summer job and some savings of his own to go to college.

IBT members know that change is coming; they are fighting a rear guard action not caring that next generation will face le deluge. They will succeed as long as the membership at large remains fragmented or indifferent.

Indifference - never underestimate it. Read the Declaration of Independence. One phrase I always liked was the explanation for why they put it in writing: "a decent respect for the opinions of mankind..." The plain fact is that 90% of current WBCCI members are clueless or indifferent to the fact that there IS a problem.

If you have this year's membership book from the WBCCI, there are how many IBT members in it? And how many are "the rest of us"? And of all of those non-IBT WBCCI members - how many of them have ever heard of www.airforums.com? Surprisingly, most of them have NOT! Many have NO idea that the WBCCI is losing tons of money every year. Even if they knew, would they care? I spend 365 days per year in my Airstream, and even though I'm not on the road that often, I do have more opportunities to run into other Airstreamers than most who only use theirs on weekends. I've got to say that 40% or more I've chatted with don't know about either organization. Most are far more interested in Airforums simply because it IS on the internet.

Face facts - I spend $54 (or is it $56? see it's insignificant) per year to belong to the WDCU - I attend one to three rallies per year. Only $1 goes to the local club, the rest is wasted by the IBT. Do I wish the national organization were better run or more progressive? YES, Will I support the WDCU if it decides to withhold the IBT portion of the dues? YES. Will I send money to the WDCU if it wants to mail a detailed explanation of it's decision to every member of the WBCCI, ... uh OK, YES. But, am I prepared to throw up the barricades and go to war... honestly, I'm hoping that it won't come to that. I believe in an axiom an old Navy Seal friend shared with me: "When you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow."

Honestly, LET the IBT wear blue blazers and berets - and tuxedos if they want. Why NOT have a big ass parade at the international if they want. Tradition - FINE. Alternatives - Equally FINE. If we want to affect change let's stick to BIG issues:
  1. financial "mismanagement" that would make Jimmy Hoffa feel right at home
  2. an organizational structure that stifles all change and proves "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"
The answer to this kind of backward thinking is always the same - economic shock treatment. Nothing else will work. And it will take more than ONE "progressive unit" to launch a coordinated wake up call to the IBT. IMHO, withholding international dues has got to be considered, of course with escrow accounts that are properly audited. If five or six progressive units would hold the IBT financially responsible, and if the membership at large were made aware of the size of the losses - then watch how fast the IBT breaks ranks and swarms over to "let's have reform".

We also need demonstrable "better alternatives." I can only imagine how hard it is to organize something as complex as the International - but we need to do more than "think" or "believe" that it can be done better and less expensively. We need to get something resembling proof that it can be done. Bids from professional event planners with timetables, etc. would be a good place to start. We'd better seriously consider putting together a Mega-Rally of progressive groups that will demonstrate to the WBCCI and espeically the IBT that it can really be done for a lower cost than the international.

Alumapalooza - there's an event being put on by Airstream Corporate - apparently without any input from WBCCI.... Hm. (Wanna bet that it's cheaper for Airstream to "do it" in their own back yard than to go to the International and "sponsor it"?) How can we use that event to our advantage - or is it only going to be attended by the online crowd who abandoned the WBCCI years ago?

Maybe we ought to be talking to Airstream's President about the company's reason for holding Alumapalooza - eh?

Paula Ford
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Old 11-30-2009, 12:47 PM   #96
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I think the easy way to settle this is too WITHHOLD ALL DUES.
WBCCI goes bankrupt, and is disbanned. THEN Start OVER. I think I would join (not really being a JOINER of things) as long as the old guard that is now in charge of spending peoples hard earned money is gone and those who will not listen to the masses are never allowed to hold office again. Just a thought
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:02 PM   #97
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Check your PM...

Paul,

Sent you a PM...


Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post
Buttercup,




A couple of questions:
  • Is there a process to have something inserted in to the Vintage Advantage?
  • If someone/group wanted to have a “postcard” size card placed into the VA is that possible?
  • What kind of cost would it be to have a “postcard” mailer printed and placed in the VA?
  • Do you know the cost of “pre-paid” postage for a card like that and is there a charge for only ones sent back? If, one chooses to make it a pre-paid card?
If I remember correctly, the VAC has about 600+ members. Depending on the “OK” from the VAC Leadership and the cost, this might be a great way of getting to over 600+ members real quick! Add to that, the FSR (Florida State Rally) coming up along with some of the larger units, you’re getting to over a 1000 real quick! For that matter, it might be worthwhile to contact “Airstream Life” about the cost of putting in a postcard size insert in that magazine.
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Old 11-30-2009, 04:45 PM   #98
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This tread has had over 150 hits today alone. I had asked one of the moderators if the counters was per individual member or just gross count of openings. It is gross openings. Even at that there is a following of this tread well beyond those posting to it, 3,500 and counting.

As far as contacting individuals a cost effective way might be to randomly select 500 WBCCI members that have listed their e mail addresses in this years book. Its a quick way to test the waters and maybe get a grievance.

Might just ask them if they are aware of the budget shortfalls and the current attitude of the Board against constructive suggestions.
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