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Old 11-29-2009, 12:42 PM   #71
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Moderators,

If you could do me the favor, since I started this thread, I’m requesting to “shut it down”. It seems we got a little off topic and though I don't agree with a private person owning the WBCCI forums, it appears somethings said on this thread has already started to appear on other forums. It was not the intent of this thread to start a WBCCI forums, WBCCI bashing thread, just a thread of how to maybe solve the problems of the over spending and lack of leadership with in the WBCCI. Again, we know the problems, "HOW DO WE FORCE THEM TO FIX IT".

I’ll let others solve the problems of the WBCCI.

Thanks!
This request is profound reminder to posters on this thread about the dangers of late night thread hijackings. Good and thoughtfully discussed topics get sidetracked.


Moderator hat on: Please respond to the ORIGINAL topic of this thread. If you wish to discuss another topic, please begin a new thread.
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Old 11-29-2009, 01:34 PM   #72
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As I follow some of the WBCCI threads, it seems, as I think Paul said in #76, every attempt to improve the organization is thwarted.

Someone described a real attempt to change things as an insurgency. It is. It most likely will get ugly and I suspect a lot of leaders of "progressive" units don't want to go through that brain damage.

The way to do it (briefly) is for a few like minded individuals to work out a list of demands. Rob wrote one, but it is too specific and long to appeal to a fairly large group of progressives. Once a short, more general list is created (no more than 10 following the KISS rule), bring it to the leaders of the most progressive units and get their feedback. Refine the list. This can only be done quietly because a massive town hall will result in just what we have on this thread and no agreed upon list or strategy.

Develop a strategy to go with the list figuring on what to do depending on how things work. It's good to have this figured out so there will be fewer surprises, but there will be surprises.

Once the list is done, bring it to the members of a few progressive units for approval. If 3 or 4 units do not agree to support this, it probably won't go far. Maybe some other units will join the attempt, maybe not. You don't need a majority of WBCCI members to make an impact, a significant minority can do it.

The strategy must include consequences. If the list isn't accepted by the WBCCI leaders, what are you going to do? The only thing I can see is that the units state they will withdraw from the WBCCI if something like the list isn't adopted. You'll need a negotiating team from the insurgent units to work with the WBCCI leadership. This team needs to have a lot of freedom to make agreements. Withdrawing is the same as not renewing membership, except it has the power of numbers and makes much more of an impact. This is the only tactic I can see working. It's drastic and the American revolutionaries took more than a year after Bunker Hill to declare independence—that was the consequence and it had to be followed through once done.

You have to face these possibilities: 1., the insurgent leaders will be grieved and kicked out, 2., the units will have to withdraw from the WBCCI, 3., lawsuits may occur (war chest needed).

I suggest one of the things in the list be direct election of officers by all members by mail or internet without them having to serve for many, many years in lower positions. The system is set up so far as I can tell to perpetuate itself. A lot of nonprofits do this and eventually it prevents change. An open nomination process is also needed or the leaders make sure nominations only go to their clones.

You also need a lawyer who understands all the organic documents that rule the WBCCI and the statutes that apply to it because I am sure those rules can be used in your favor or used to silence you.

Be prepared for the long haul. Good luck.

Gene
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Old 11-29-2009, 01:47 PM   #73
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I know at first blush you may say no can't be done.........but it can

This issue as to how the club is being miss managed can be brought before a Court of law.

Here a judge can and will rule on such issues a Abuse of Power, failure to follow its bylaws and RNR.

Other clubs have done it there is case law on it.

It can be done with a small defense fund to start.
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:03 PM   #74
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At this point, I'll go back to my hole in the ground.

Thanks,
Paul

Before you have this tread removed I would ask you to consider another of Nixon's quotes

"A man is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits."

You have knowledge of the system that most of us who share your thoughts do not have. We look forward to those with such insight to lead us through this fight.
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:27 PM   #75
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You also need a lawyer who understands all the organic documents that rule the WBCCI and the statutes that apply to it
Do we have a consul that is not on the road and is volunteering ?
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:47 PM   #76
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HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT FORCING THE NEEDED CHANGES TO FIX THEM!!!
Thanks,
To me it seems clearly that hitting them in the pocket book is the only applied force that would be recognized. Not joining and leaving the club gives them more leverage and less opposition to continue timing out the last monies and coercing loyal members into taking up the financial burden of no considerable spending limitations or cuts. The call is always for more members and revenue and never about saving costs except for a few paltry notes about cutting out candidate statements in the BB and charging campgrounds for listing discounts in the yearbook, both extremely bad moves and of infintestimally small economic savings to the club, more of a symbolic sacrifice than a cost saving measure worth the effort to initiate or the earnest effort to truly attempt to curb out of control spending in the club, nor to touch sacred perks long coveted and worked towards by the international officers.

I like the idea of local units putting the international fees into escrow until such time as the IBT meets with unit representatives under neutral and objective arbitration to resolve club issues. Taxation without representation has always been an issue worth acting upon and should be considered seriously in leu of any recognition or action from the leadership of this club to address current issues openly and aggressively or to reflect the serious current financial situation and the climate of the general members' needs and desire towards the future of WBCCI and look forward rather than backward to build the club and survive.

I also would like to encourage those active in the progressive units to start negotiations as a unified front before the meetings of the international rally and show the progressive nature of electronic communication and exhibit a free, no cost, frequently utilized, working environment to highlight the effectiveness of modern media and just how cost effective and productive it can be within the club for conducting business.
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Old 11-29-2009, 03:08 PM   #77
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Individual units holding out international fees probably will end up suspended. I belonged to a telecommunications organization where the "mother ship" decided they would take the dues payments directly rather than the local chapters funding them. We saw it as a way to delay the payments to the individual local organization thus giving the national organization cash flow to stem their losses.

When the change came we refused to sign the document acknowledging the change. The International Board effectively terminated our local chapters affiliation. We stand alone today as an independent local organization, while the "mothership" continues their downward spiral. We thought others would follow along and while we made the move, no other chapter joined our efforts. It parallels some of the WBCCI story where we had an end user organization and had an International staff whose function was to organize and run the annual conference. The local organizations slowly acquiesced their responsibility as end users, allowing the International staff to run amok. The conference began losing money and the International organization started increasing their side of the dues more and more each year, thus putting the squeeze on the local chapters.

I'm not sure if withholding funds would be beneficial unless you really got some commitments from other units to do the same. A lot of folks talk the talk but few are willing to take on the risk and the potential aftermath.

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Old 11-29-2009, 03:11 PM   #78
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I also have no knowlege of past grievance issues but it certainly seems as if there has been an increase of complaints and a huge discrepancy in the resolution of a number of them that there has been one sided proceedings that have served a foregone conclusion before their beginning investigation. That should also be a matter of great concern and prority to be examined to insure proper conduct and procedure has been followed.

EDIT add on... I agree Jack with what you say. The measure hopefully would be universally adopted by all or the majority of units or utilized only by those units sufficiently happy with their local unit benefits to make a stand for expression and secede from the international organization. This is not unlike forming a union to gain combined colateral and force.
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Old 11-29-2009, 03:46 PM   #79
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Thank you soooo much!!!!!

Guys/Gals,

“Thank You” Sooo Much!!! for getting back on topic.

I like “CrawfordGene’s” idea of: (I really like that post, good ideas and a plan)

“Develop a strategy to go with the list figuring on what to do depending on how things work. It's good to have this figured out so there will be fewer surprises, but there will be surprises.”

Along with exactly what we the membership are asking them to do.

From there, what units would be good to contact:
WDCU (100+), 4CU, Denver, New York Metro, Ontario (100+) etc…

Units with the membership numbers or the political clout to help push this forward would be on the list??
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Old 11-29-2009, 03:52 PM   #80
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I don't think withholding dues will affect change, although they are losing money year over year there is still a reserve of 1 or 2 million dollars.

(someone can clarify that bank amount)

So it will take years to deplete the kitty.

We need to get changes made sooner
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:00 PM   #81
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I don't think withholding dues will affect change, although they are losing money year over year there is still a reserve of 1 or 2 million dollars.

(someone can clarify that bank amount)

So it will take years to deplete the kitty.

We need to get changes made sooner
At the deficit rate of $100,000 per year the general fund will last about 8 years. At the deficit rate of $50,000 per year in the International Rally, the rally fund will last about five years.

Not much time to make changes or increase dues.

Bill
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:06 PM   #82
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Ok, Paul or Leo what are the steps needed to make an amendment to the bylaws or are we talking the constitution.

Also what is the time frame

Once we know the steps required we can propose a change(s)
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Old 11-29-2009, 05:14 PM   #83
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I will have to check the by-laws/constitution

I'll have to check, but I would think many of the budget items are part of the "By-Laws" which can be changed by the IBT without a vote from the membership.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:10 PM   #84
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The OP’s original intent of this thread suggested one way of facilitating a discussion on the future of the club by those who would like to see change.

In this, and many other threads, there continues to be a huge amount of negative effort expended in speculating on ways that will somehow bring the current organization – obviously kicking and screaming – into the 21st century.

If what I read is correct the “status quo camp” and the “change camp” are about as polarized as they can be – meaning the path of change would be, at its best, time consuming – fraught with bitterness and acrimony – take losses along the way – and very likely be followed by a lengthy recovery.

This perhaps suggests there should at least be consideration of an alternative approach – one that might be a little kinder and a little gentler.

Apparently, the WBCCI’s peak membership has dwindled dramatically over time. One interpretation of this might be that the WBCCI has incrementally been burning its legitimacy as a viable club for many owners over many years. An extension of this logic might suggest that, regardless of the time frame, the real numbers of that decline could represent a target for recovery. Now:
  • add to this the difference between the number of Airstreams on the road at the time of WBCCI’s height – and a presumably much larger number of Airstreams today
  • also add to this the number of Airstreamers who remain as existing members of WBCCI but are clearly unhappy.
It would be interesting (necessary) to plug in real numbers – but regardless – the point remains that there are thousands of folks out there who are ripe for an Airstream fellowship experience that is not being provided by WBCCI and for whom WBCCI apparently has no desire to attract.

So.

Does this not represent an opportunity that is screaming for some attention?

Could be.

If WBCCI cannot be changed without considerable pain and effort – then forget it – and begin focusing frustrated energies and resources into breaking-out an alternative organization that will appeal to this lost group immediately – the most there is to lose would be the name (I seem to recall there are a lot of folks who really wouldn’t see that as a loss) and perhaps a direct affiliation with the company (which time would sort out - perhaps quickly).

No matter what the consensus turns out to be – I hope you are successful – and I am sure you will be - but my real hope is that you are successful in my lifetime.

Thanks,


Jay
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