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Old 11-27-2009, 11:05 PM   #29
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Well, based on the derailment (in less than 25 post), I can see this thread will be going no where fast and people wonder why I wanted to keep it to a small group behind closed doors. I like to offer up an idea to help save the club to no more than one a year, with that, I will place this idea on the shelf and wait until next year to come up with another one. By that time, the WBCCI (a club of 6000) will have lost around 10% of its membership and burned through another 80K plus in money.

Once again I’ll restate,

“This would not be a meeting for everyone to get up and restate everything that has already been said in the past. If everyone wants a “free-for-all” that’s fine, but a doubt anything real will come from it.”

“We the members of the WBCCI need to get control of our leadership one-way shape or form.”

“I have many things that can fill my time on this earth, I just would hate to see a club that has been so good to me and my family (we are only 45yrs, with an 8 yrs daughter) collapse due to the short sightedness and the unwillingness of the few in power to make the needed changes because of their own greed and lack of leadership.”

“I’d just love to see all the other people that say they would not join the WBCCI because “Bla-Bla-Bla” also have the chance to be part of what I think could be a truly “great club” and not just a “few great units”. But, this club will not be here long if changes are not made soon.”

If we the members of the WBCCI don’t soon as a “group” get control of our leadership, there’s a good chance the “leadership group” will take us so far down this road it will be almost impossible to recover.

Hope to see everyone at Myrtle Beach, SC.
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:16 AM   #30
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Paul, lets have a mini meeting at Myrtle Beach, SC and see how it goes
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Old 11-28-2009, 06:19 AM   #31
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The International is geared to an older and more formal crowd -- no doubt about that, and that dynamic needs to change
Correct, why can't the IBT understand this??

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Trying to showcase what has always been the International Rally and now instead hawking it is a convention is a huge mistake
Correct again... plus I'll add that holding the event at a convention facility adds immensely to the cost basis.

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Granted there's not a whole lot of fun the way they structure this now, but my guess is that there used to be a lot more fun
I'm guessing that you are guessing right... plus I'm also guessing that "more fun" cost a lot less.

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That's not the club's fault -- that's the individual saying, in advance, that it's going to cost me $$$ a day, just to rush out there and back, and I'm willing to do that. Personal choice, three dollar signs instead of two.
Sure is the clubs fault... they are putting on the event. It's not necessarily about $$$ per day, it's what you get for those dollars. My wife an I haul ourselves and 4 of our kids out to the East Coast twice a season because of the fun we have.

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You go when it's in our region, adjoining region, or maybe you have no boundaries. Somebody could come all the way out to either of our events from the WI area, their travel costing them thousands, and they might not have a great time either, and swear both of our events off for good.
Leo, we may come to your Pocono event (that would make three trips east next season)

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Personal experiences, personal choices, personal results, MAKE YOUR OWN FUN if all else fails...
In my world I don't plan on paying someone $600 so I can MAKE MY OWN FUN. We did that in Madison and don't plan to do it again.

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I can see going to any international as THE place to meet WBCCI members from anywhere and everywhere on an annual basis
Right...it is really that simple, why is this not what it is now?
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Old 11-28-2009, 06:33 AM   #32
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“We the members of the WBCCI need to get control of our leadership one-way shape or form.”
Paul, there are only two ways to get control of the leadership...

1.) Withhold our money

2.) Display such a ground swell of dissatisfaction that they are shamed into relinquishing control.

Beyond that, they have such autonomous control that, like they do on on the "Official forum", they will just get rid of anyone that disagrees with them.
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Old 11-28-2009, 06:58 AM   #33
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Keep the insurgency alive!

Steve,

Good post. I concur.

And Leo, per this comment -

Quote:
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- you simply can't say it's a waste of time to spend the mileage and hours. That's not the club's fault -- that's the individual saying, in advance, that it's going to cost me $$$ a day, just to rush out there and back, and I'm willing to do that. Personal choice, three dollar signs instead of two.
you fly out solo - without trailer in tow - not quite the same my friend.

It's like boot camp.... we're gonna have to tear the WBCCI all the way down in order to rebuild it.

And a closed door meeting won't work either.. it'll take a successful insurgency to win it - and beating the counter insurgents at their own game.

my two cents - I'm with the WDCU and local only here fellas and gals. That's where it's all worth it. When the club folds, which it will, there will still be the friends we all have made in the journey.

Rob
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Old 11-28-2009, 07:47 AM   #34
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I'm an outsider here...new AS owner and former potential WBCCI member.

It was posted just one or two above me...

DON't GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY!!!

This is the final and greatest equilibrator. Form all the "progressive" caucuses you want...they still got your money. And, like our gubbament, they could care less what you think.

Just my $0.02.

Vote with your wallet.
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Old 11-28-2009, 08:44 AM   #35
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Paul, I want to be a part of the solution. If it takes de winterizing and coming to Myrtle Beach I am "willin"
Another possibility is a town meeting via computer. A virtual town meeting. Bet Skype could be used for this feat. Maybe a draft of the issues and concerns could be sent out the Unit Presidents. They can in turn circulate that to the members so people are all aware of what is going on and what needs to be discussed. If the Unit President does not send it on to the members you will have a clear indication of who is "re" or "pro"- gressive. To be Devil's Advocate, if only 1000 of the current 6000 have serious concern as to these problems, then going any further is futile. A club wide survey would help a great deal in understanding where exactly the members as a whole stand.

At our Installation I met the man who will carry the IBT torch in two years(maybe it is three). Unfortunately I did not know it at the time but he was not there out of his kind heart or desire to meet new friends. Instead he was there(fees and milage paid) to promote the International. I cornered him and bent his ear a bit. One of the things I suggested to him was that instead having three formal cocktail parties for people who can easily buy their own booze and cheese, he forego one and use those funds to rent a moon bounce, a pony, a clown, just something for the young kids to enjoy. He acted as if he was listening to what I was saying, but did not hear a word I said. His response was "we have an awesome kids activities director" I pointed to a large group of kids playing together (Paul's daughter, both of mine, and a half dozen others) getting ready to play hide and seek. I pointed at them and told him "That right there is the future of this club. If they do not enjoy themselves their parents will stop coming. Without their parents, it will just be a retirement club that will see no future at all." I am not sure he understood or heard anything I was saying. He is the present of our club. I will be very interested to see how his International is handled.
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:06 AM   #36
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my two cents - I'm with the WDCU and local only here fellas and gals. That's where it's all worth it. When the club folds, which it will, there will still be the friends we all have made in the journey.

Rob
Substitute El Camino Real Unit for WDCU, and that's just where I am. I will be President of our great unit next year.

I find this thread very interesting. The way I see what is going on? I see WBCCI collapsing under it's own weight. If that happens, so be it.

What will be left? Units like ours that have Rallys, not luncheons at Denny's. Units that have loads of good times without traveling thousands of miles and spending thousands of dollars to do it.

How will those units be connected to one another? It will happen. People from those types of units will stay in touch. They will meet up with one another as they do now.

It is truly the friends we meet along the way. Great friends.

It's already happening folks. Some see it, some don't.
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:13 AM   #37
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How about some ideas??

Ok,

Let’s try it this way. I think we all know the problems with the WBCCI and the International rally along with the spending spree and mismanagement of funds by the EC7 and IBT. Know the info, no need to re-hash.

The question is this:

“What can be done to make the EC7 and IBT change the leadership path they are currently going down?”

As individual members we can try emails and not re-upping our membership (takes dollars away and membership numbers) all of which “HAS NOT WORKED”.

So, what are some ideas that “Will Make” the leadership fix this club?
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Old 11-28-2009, 01:14 PM   #38
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Won't be joining anytime soon.

I am a newby but would like to share my perspective on a club that currently does not appeal to me. I do agree with Leo when he speaks of BASICS.

From what I have read, this club sounds much like many of the ailing service/fraternal clubs out there like the Elks, Lions, Moose and the VFW. At one time, these were popular clubs with a great history behind them. Time changes and clubs that don't start to die.

In social setting there are two issues that I will avoid at all cost and that is the discussion of religion and politics. Why should I join a group that encourages uniforms in politically correct colors, actually hailing a leader and activities that are heavy on Christian beliefs. This is not for me.

On the other hand, a rally of progressive types would be up my alley. I will continue to watch from a distance. I don't mind sharing some of my money to assist the local group but do not relish sending it up the line so people can eat for free, wear uniforms in red, white and blue with funny hats.
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Old 11-28-2009, 02:04 PM   #39
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In social setting there are two issues that I will avoid at all cost and that is the discussion of religion and politics. Why should I join a group that encourages uniforms in politically correct colors, actually hailing a leader and activities that are heavy on Christian beliefs. This is not for me.
In case you missed the current definition of "Politically Correct" this is this years winner of a contest to define it. It does seam to fit waht we are discussing.

Specifically, there is an annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term

This year's term was
"Political Correctness."
The winner wrote:


"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:05 PM   #40
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Leo, Good Idea, but How?

Leo,

I like your idea of:

"SUSPEND ALL International Officers financial reimbursements until such time as the club is both growing and running profitably again"

But the question is "How?" can we do this when they are the very ones who decides "how much they should get".

Is there a "WBCCI Constitutional", "Blue Book", "RNR" or legal way that a group of members can do this according to the "WBCCI Constitution" or under the non-profit law and/or Ohio State law?

When I was a Unit Prez, I knew the WBCCI Constitution up/down/sideways/etc.. and I never saw a way of doing this in either the Blue Book or the Constitution. But, I don't claim to be the sharpest tool either.

So, How do we do it?
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:09 PM   #41
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"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
Howie,
Thanks for injecting some humor in this!
Rich
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:55 PM   #42
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My suggestion for the original idea of this thread:

Form a working group - the term "closed door" isn't a good phrase to use, and I see what you really meant; a small group to come up with a proposal. Invite each unit to send one and only one member. If that gets too messy (i.e., more than about 12 people), invite each region to send one and only one.

Do something online. Perhaps you can get the owners of airforums to set up a private forum for you to use. Or, contact me - I can set it up on my site.

Come up with a good proposal that units can get behind, like the way they hated the motorhome amendment.
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