Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-05-2007, 11:42 AM   #29
Certifiable
 
mistral blue's Avatar
 
. , .
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,460
No Guts, No Glory

IMO, responding to us here is another opportunity that the IBT is choosing to squander. But I doubt that they see it as such. Why? I think it's because they are afraid: Afraid of communicating directly to its members. Afraid of communicating with potential members.

Where are the leaders in the IBT?

Where is that indomitable, venturesome spirit this club was founded on?

Rob is right on. They should "FIND A WAY" to get this done. No more excuses.
__________________

__________________
mistral blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 11:43 AM   #30
Rivet Master
 
LuminumTraila's Avatar
 
2006 19' Safari SE
NW of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 987
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkerfoot
Here is the reason which was given to the orgainzers:

The decision has been difficult for the EC and many pros and cons have
been internally discussed. A sincere effort was made to make it
possible, however, unknown liability and provisions for obtaining
adequate insurance were the primary causes for disapproval. The EC
believes strongly that provisions of the OHIO law governing our
corporation (WBCCI) do not allow us the option of placing the Club in
potential jeopardy from unknown litigation from participants

and heirs of the caravan. Waivers and releases are not sufficiently
sound to fully protect the organization and this must be our primary
consideration

Bill
There's not a lot of detail in there. I hope they're going back to ask for more specific reasons so that they can work at addressing whatever the real problems/issues are. That note could have been written for any caravan, for any reason.

-J
__________________

__________________
Doug & Jamie, AIR #650
LuminumTraila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 11:46 AM   #31
2 Rivet Member
 
WALLY 54's Avatar
 
1954 25' Cruiser
1977 27' Overlander
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands , Nevada
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78
How about a rider to the insurance? Lloyds of London is very good for things of the off-beat nature and I'm sure there are other companies that do the same or more. [high-risk ventures happen on a daily basis around the planet].
__________________
VAC 1 V.P. & Vintage Advantage Magazine Editor
WALLY54 1954 Cruiser #11281
Buttercup 77 Overlander #17330
1990 345-LE MoHo Classic #7830
Air #
19124
WALLY 54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 11:49 AM   #32
Rivet Master
 
wkerfoot's Avatar
 
1979 23' Safari
1954 29' Liner
Orange , California
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,667
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougjamie
There's not a lot of detail in there. I hope they're going back to ask for more specific reasons so that they can work at addressing whatever the real problems/issues are. That note could have been written for any caravan, for any reason.

-J
I think that the organizers are moving in another direction since they received this answer. They were waiting for a long time for a reply from the IBT. Unfortunately WBCCI has also lost some members in the caravan who would have been required to join in order to participate in an WBCCI sponsored caravan. In addition, the leadership (small "l" intentionally) has upset many more members who are disappointed with this short sighted decision.

Bill
__________________
Bill Kerfoot, WBCCI/VAC/CAC/El Camino Real Unit #5223
Just my personal opinion
1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon, 1977 Lincoln Continental, 2014 Dodge Durango
1979 23' Safari, and 1954 29' Double Door Liner Orange, CA

http://billbethsblog.blogspot.com/
wkerfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 12:03 PM   #33
Certifiable
 
mistral blue's Avatar
 
. , .
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,460
Any Corporate Lawyers Out There?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wkerfoot
Here is the reason which was given to the orgainzers:
unknown liability and provisions for obtaining
adequate insurance were the primary causes for disapproval. The EC
believes strongly that provisions of the OHIO law governing our
corporation (WBCCI) do not allow us the option of placing the Club in
potential jeopardy from unknown litigation from participants
and heirs of the caravan. Waivers and releases are not sufficiently
sound to fully protect the organization and this must be our primary
considerationBill
My guess, and it's only my own personal guess, is that the IBT is afraid that if the WBCCI gets sued they won't have enough resources to defend itself. The party(s) suing would then try to "pierce the corporate shield" which, in theory, protects its officers personally, Airstream and Thor from liability.

Apparently, the IBT is trying to protect whatever "deep pockets" there are from potential liability.

Any other theories/guesses?
__________________
mistral blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 12:33 PM   #34
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
well folks...

pardon my frustrations but....

another thread down the poop hole.

forget speculating on why they did what they did,

or take it to the conspiracy theory threads...

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ory-21681.html

we DON'T NEED the club endorsement. the club needs the pr and goodwill of this caravan...

yes the cccc members could have paid an insurance differential for costs above the typical caravan.

that was NOT the option offered.

the epic caravans were all sponsored by a/s corp via the club.

understand since the club has been an independent enterprise, it has been IN DECLINE.

plenty of threads here on wb/ibt/moho/voting...

and all that sewage.

perhaps someone needs to start a 'boycott the international' thread...

robandzoe have listened and spoken with their hearts! i love their actions...

CAN YOU?

THIS thread was intended 2b in the TRAVEL BEYOND US/CANADA forum.

the mods have gone to all the trouble of giving us a place for

world travel discussions, so use it that way!

show your support and be curious about the cape town to cairo to cape town caravan here...

please

thanks
2air'

we've even got a place for skeptics and doubting toms....

http://www.airforums.com/forum...airo-8454.html
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 12:49 PM   #35
Rivet Master
 
wheel interested's Avatar
 
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer , Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,039
I pardon your frustrations and one better, and your evaluation. I, myself, apologize for intruding upon the thread for the caravanners. I had no idea this thread was in a special place. Feel free to delete my posts. I thought there was a relationship between them and the subject, obviously not a thought you share. Excuse me.
__________________
Caroljb



photography
wheel interested is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 01:01 PM   #36
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
for those that never look at forum headings try it....

GLOBAL 'streaming>travel beyond us/canada>this thread.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f341/

also note the other great headings and threads in this section...

shipping export/import

local regs and licensing

modifications

networking

with interesting threads on aussie travel, the uk, europe, cananda, france and beyond!

also the olympics in china and the tour de france and our little caravan up the east coast of africa....

many FUN international a/s issues....

most of the a/s world could care less about that club NOW....

be part of the world wally travelers!

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 01:32 PM   #37
Certifiable
 
mistral blue's Avatar
 
. , .
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,460
Sorry everyone. Please delete my posts here too. You guys are like rock stars to me. From now on I'll just stay in the audience and cheer you on with my zippo lit and mouth shut.
__________________
mistral blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 01:56 PM   #38
Rivet Master
 
LuminumTraila's Avatar
 
2006 19' Safari SE
NW of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 987
Images: 3
Sorry. Please pardon my interest. Didn't know you only wanted cheerleading.

Rah, rah, go Team! Go to Africa!

That's it. That's all I got.

Guess you can take my posts out too.

-J
__________________
Doug & Jamie, AIR #650
LuminumTraila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 02:02 PM   #39
VAC President
 
Buttercup's Avatar
 
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands , Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,149
Send a message via Skype™ to Buttercup
When I think about it I can't see why the liability is an issue really and why the liability concerns would be any different for this ot any caravan. When it comes down to it, you face risk just walking out the door. Imagine the international and a freak hail storm that damages every single unit out there...How is WBCCI protected from that?
I am sorry but I see this as a little bit of a copout.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wkerfoot
Here is the reason which was given to the orgainzers:

The decision has been difficult for the EC and many pros and cons have
been internally discussed. A sincere effort was made to make it
possible, however, unknown liability and provisions for obtaining
adequate insurance were the primary causes for disapproval. The EC
believes strongly that provisions of the OHIO law governing our
corporation (WBCCI) do not allow us the option of placing the Club in
potential jeopardy from unknown litigation from participants

and heirs of the caravan. Waivers and releases are not sufficiently
sound to fully protect the organization and this must be our primary
consideration

Bill
__________________
Buttercup's Web Site. WBCCI #17330, 11281 & 7830. VAC Past President, TAC NV-2 & NV-3
Buttercup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 06:22 PM   #40
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,190
Capetown to Cairo WBCCI Discussion

Admin note:
This thread is for the discussion of the WBCCI's decision to not allow an official caravan. These posts have been moved from the Capetown to Cairo thread
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 06:30 PM   #41
Rivet Master
 
robandzoe's Avatar
 
1958 30' Sovereign of the Road
Plymouth , New York
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,775
Images: 19
Send a message via Skype™ to robandzoe
JStanley - concur

That is why we are BoyCotting this year - and if they do not allow the non Airstreams in, we'll stay and I'll continue to try to make a change by moving up in the organization. If they do allow the MHs in, then sorry, we'll be leaving as they honestly do not listen or care.

Thanks.
__________________
Rob, Zoe', Stanton, Bryce, Braedon and Finn Baker
Do you Listen to the www.theVAP.com
Plymouth, NY 13832
http://bakersacresofchenango.blogspot.com/
Courtesy parking
Flag Pole Holders - http://robsflagpoleholders.blogspot.com/

robandzoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 08:18 PM   #42
Rivet Master
 
clancy_boy's Avatar
 
2003 22' International CCD
Kiln , Mississippi
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,780
Images: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
When I think about it I can't see why the liability is an issue really and why the liability concerns would be any different for this ot any caravan. When it comes down to it, you face risk just walking out the door. Imagine the international and a freak hail storm that damages every single unit out there...How is WBCCI protected from that?
I am sorry but I see this as a little bit of a copout.
OPEN FLOOD GATES NOW PLEASE

Strange, I don't see it as a copout but a fact of life in todays world of legal action gone mad. Hot coffee ring a bell to anyone. If a lawyer can win a multi-million dollar award for his client over spilled coffee from a drive in window in small town USA, just imagine what a lawyer can do to a company or organization over a person injured, stranded, kidnaped or worse - KILLED in Africa. OK, here are some questions for all the participants - "What is your current Africa travel experience?" - answer that please. Do you currently hold a valid US passport? Do the current medications you are on allow the ingestion of malaria medications - required for travel to some of these areas? (Required is a strong word and you are free to do as you wish - having been exposed to it in the past, trust me you don't want it) Has the route been traveled by an advance team? (most adventure bound travel groups can at least prove that their trips have the possibility of success including climbing Mt Everest) Are you aware that if you seek medical attention in lots of these countries MOST if not all require payment PRIOR to service for foreign nationals? Blood supplies (where available) in Africa have the highest rates of contamination with common diseases such as Hepatitus, malaria, and my personal favorite (NOT) HIV (no cure for the last one).

I realize that one or more of you are doctors or medical professionals, would you treat a person without insurance - well the same is true for the WBCCI, in todays world....... would you have a caravan without proper coverage? sad but true we are in a legal mess.

Rob, I have the greatest respect for your actions and beliefs. I would probably feel the same way but I am only a novice at this and still in the learning stage (ohhh that's an opening there). I am opposed to any changes to the bylaws that allow outside or NON-AS units into an organization with so rich a history and any modification to the name. BUT - support by the WBCCI for a caravan with such far reaching consequences as this one has is dangers. Let a private enterprise handle this or face the fact that a major failure could spell the end to an organization you so feverishly defend.

I don't have alot of WBCCI Caravan experience - but trust me on this - I have been there - done that - seen things you don't want to see in Africa, I will read the book on this one.

Mike
__________________

__________________
Michael & Tina with Layla and Preston BZ
The family has grown.
2003 22' INTERNATIONAL CCD
clancy_boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WBCCI Membership for free thenewkid64 WBCCI Forum 17 05-01-2011 11:17 PM
WBCCI and local Units Stougard WBCCI Forum 54 02-28-2006 09:46 AM
WBCCI participation smily WBCCI Forum 206 01-08-2006 08:50 PM
WBCCI family/children/pet friendly? ViewRVs WBCCI Forum 66 01-08-2006 08:34 PM
WBCCI Survey smily WBCCI Forum 33 11-13-2005 10:08 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.