Capetown to Cairo WBCCI Discussion

[WALLY 54]

The Wally Byam Creed is all about living... the IBT is not.

Crack is 50amp camping...


VOTE NO on the entire International slate when it comes to your unit in April (THIS MONTH). They're going to win anyway -- might as well make them sit through a 45 minute roll call and let them hear YOUR voice. Especially if you won't be in Perry! If they get in through another club-wide unanimous YES election they're just going to fumble around and find another disaster for '08. When is enough, enough?

[WALLY 54]

This single event has the potential to garner International press from all media outlets (tv, podcast, radio, independent film and magazine).

In a 50-year-old club, with dwindling memberships, this is the just the type of event that is needed -- with a pr shelf-life of at least 5 years (maybe even more).

This group is making foolish moves every-which-way they turn. Why is that?

Time to make a plan...

In "Animal House" it was the Deltas against the rules...the rules lost!:

Bluto (John Belushi): "What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"
Otter (Tim Matheson): "We gotta take these b#&ta#&s. Now we could do it with conventional weapons. But that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
Bluto: We're just the guys to do it."
D-Day: "Let's do it."
Bluto: "LET'S DO IT!"

[robandzoe]

Sure, I know WBCCI did not start running the Caravans until later... but image is everything. Don't come and give that as an excuse - the leadership should be trying to "FIND A WAY" to make it happen.

As to image - garner up the image of a Marine. Well, based on this image, and the "Esprit de Corps," the Marines do not have to do much promotion - there are few Marine Corps commercials out there - Young men want to join the Corps due to its image and challenge alone.

AIRSTREAM has much the same image in everyone's head - "Oh, those were the Cadillac." The WBCCI, or as I call it now, the WBC (I already dropped the C and I for ya Doug) should take on the Caravan to prove that what people say can't be done, CAN! We all know Wally would. Will there be issues - you bet, but if the Caravanners are ready to take it on, I'm behind them and support them 100%.

So, I'm speaking with my heart and not going this year. If they vote in the MH issue, I'm probably gone all-together. I sure will miss seeing and meeting everyone, but I'll be Airstreaming none the less that week - just not in a crammed $510 field with 40-50 feet of sewer hose running everywhere - like they don't leak (it'll smell nice after a week in the HEAT!)

To me this and the MH issue are separate, but they are related as the same people are making these decisions. Maybe they'll hit their head coming out the MH that morning, the day of the vote, and the WBC will make the right decisions - until July, we'll have to voice our concerns and be heard!

SYDTR everyone!

Rob

[wheel interested]

It's amazing just how unilaterally unresponsive our club leaders are. I have yet to hear of anyone's communication being acknowledged least of all responded to. These officers are in a vacuum, sealed away like a cult annexed away from the society they are supposed to be representing.

I applaud you Rob for taking action. The monopoly at the top just has to be broken up. The IBT has abused its power and has hijacked exclusive privilege to carry on business as they see fit and not as members choose. They have exclusive possession and control of the club. The only options they leave us with are walking.

Tell your unit to vote NO to the entire slate of officers or it is we that will be forced to leave, and not just a few members who allegedly can't find any Airstreams to buy. Vote NO to the motion and NO to any delegate negotiation.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!
We're mad as heck and we aren't going to take it anymore.

[muddy_hollow]

One thing that puzzles me is that the WBCCI supported a long running caravan last year up to Nova Scotia, which celebrated the anniversary of the formation of the group. Seems odd that they don't support other International events???????

Doug

[LuminumTraila]

Can anyone here tell us anything about what the issues are, or why IBT rejected this caravan?

What countries would the caravan be traveling through? Are there any State Dept. warnings out about traveling in these countries? Are there health and safety, Language/guide, food/fuel, political/cultural issues? What did the insurers have to say about the trip?

Has WBCCI ever rejected any other caravan proposals? Did Wally ever consider taking a caravan through parts of the world where anti-American sentiment was high at the time? How does this trip differ from Wally's Capetown to Cairo trip?

I'm just trying to understand why this caravan is different from other caravans in the eyes of WBCCI's leaders, or what their reasons were for turning it down.

-J

[JStanley]

Yes, the delegates could vote no, no, no at the International.
It will send a short-term message but not solve the long-term problem.
Dropping out will not help, but boycotting the International sends a stronger message.
The IBT cabal has the ball, they rules the roost and it will us take time to rout them out.
They lost their compass and are going in circles.

As “rideair” said in one of his earlier posting, we have to work for change by getting our forward thinking, progressive members to move up through the ranks of their Units, their Regional offices and into International officer positions. Eventually we will have the new generation of leaders in positions of control. Lets hope that next generation doesn’t get contaminated or brainwashed by the incumbents and are able to steers WBCCI back on course.

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by dougjamie

Can anyone here tell us anything about what the issues are, or why IBT rejected this caravan?

What countries would the caravan be traveling through? Are there any State Dept. warnings out about traveling in these countries? Are there health and safety, Language/guide, food/fuel, political/cultural issues? What did the insurers have to say about the trip?

Has WBCCI ever rejected any other caravan proposals? Did Wally ever consider taking a caravan through parts of the world where anti-American sentiment was high at the time? How does this trip differ from Wally's Capetown to Cairo trip?

I'm just trying to understand why this caravan is different from other caravans in the eyes of WBCCI's leaders, or what their reasons were for turning it down.

-J

Here is the reason which was given to the orgainzers:

The decision has been difficult for the EC and many pros and cons have
been internally discussed. A sincere effort was made to make it
possible, however, unknown liability and provisions for obtaining
adequate insurance were the primary causes for disapproval. The EC
believes strongly that provisions of the OHIO law governing our
corporation (WBCCI) do not allow us the option of placing the Club in
potential jeopardy from unknown litigation from participants

and heirs of the caravan. Waivers and releases are not sufficiently
sound to fully protect the organization and this must be our primary
consideration

Bill

[mistral blue]

IMO, responding to us here is another opportunity that the IBT is choosing to squander. But I doubt that they see it as such. Why? I think it's because they are afraid: Afraid of communicating directly to its members. Afraid of communicating with potential members.

Where are the leaders in the IBT?

Where is that indomitable, venturesome spirit this club was founded on?

Rob is right on. They should "FIND A WAY" to get this done. No more excuses.

[LuminumTraila]

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

Here is the reason which was given to the orgainzers:

The decision has been difficult for the EC and many pros and cons have
been internally discussed. A sincere effort was made to make it
possible, however, unknown liability and provisions for obtaining
adequate insurance were the primary causes for disapproval. The EC
believes strongly that provisions of the OHIO law governing our
corporation (WBCCI) do not allow us the option of placing the Club in
potential jeopardy from unknown litigation from participants

and heirs of the caravan. Waivers and releases are not sufficiently
sound to fully protect the organization and this must be our primary
consideration

Bill

There's not a lot of detail in there. I hope they're going back to ask for more specific reasons so that they can work at addressing whatever the real problems/issues are. That note could have been written for any caravan, for any reason.

-J

[WALLY 54]

How about a rider to the insurance? Lloyds of London is very good for things of the off-beat nature and I'm sure there are other companies that do the same or more. [high-risk ventures happen on a daily basis around the planet].

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by dougjamie

There's not a lot of detail in there. I hope they're going back to ask for more specific reasons so that they can work at addressing whatever the real problems/issues are. That note could have been written for any caravan, for any reason.

-J

I think that the organizers are moving in another direction since they received this answer. They were waiting for a long time for a reply from the IBT. Unfortunately WBCCI has also lost some members in the caravan who would have been required to join in order to participate in an WBCCI sponsored caravan. In addition, the leadership (small "l" intentionally) has upset many more members who are disappointed with this short sighted decision.

Bill

[mistral blue]

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

Here is the reason which was given to the orgainzers:
unknown liability and provisions for obtaining
adequate insurance were the primary causes for disapproval. The EC
believes strongly that provisions of the OHIO law governing our
corporation (WBCCI) do not allow us the option of placing the Club in
potential jeopardy from unknown litigation from participants
and heirs of the caravan. Waivers and releases are not sufficiently
sound to fully protect the organization and this must be our primary
considerationBill

My guess, and it's only my own personal guess, is that the IBT is afraid that if the WBCCI gets sued they won't have enough resources to defend itself. The party(s) suing would then try to "pierce the corporate shield" which, in theory, protects its officers personally, Airstream and Thor from liability.

Apparently, the IBT is trying to protect whatever "deep pockets" there are from potential liability.

Any other theories/guesses?

[2airishuman]

well folks...

pardon my frustrations but....

another thread down the poop hole.

forget speculating on why they did what they did,

or take it to the conspiracy theory threads...

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ory-21681.html

we DON'T NEED the club endorsement. the club needs the pr and goodwill of this caravan...

yes the cccc members could have paid an insurance differential for costs above the typical caravan.

that was NOT the option offered.

the epic caravans were all sponsored by a/s corp via the club.

understand since the club has been an independent enterprise, it has been IN DECLINE.

plenty of threads here on wb/ibt/moho/voting...

and all that sewage.

perhaps someone needs to start a 'boycott the international' thread...

robandzoe have listened and spoken with their hearts! i love their actions...

CAN YOU?

THIS thread was intended 2b in the TRAVEL BEYOND US/CANADA forum.

the mods have gone to all the trouble of giving us a place for

world travel discussions, so use it that way!

show your support and be curious about the cape town to cairo to cape town caravan here...

please

thanks
2air'

we've even got a place for skeptics and doubting toms....

http://www.airforums.com/forum...airo-8454.html

[wheel interested]

I pardon your frustrations and one better, and your evaluation. I, myself, apologize for intruding upon the thread for the caravanners. I had no idea this thread was in a special place. Feel free to delete my posts. I thought there was a relationship between them and the subject, obviously not a thought you share. Excuse me.

[2airishuman]

for those that never look at forum headings try it....

GLOBAL 'streaming>travel beyond us/canada>this thread.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f341/

also note the other great headings and threads in this section...

shipping export/import

local regs and licensing

modifications

networking

with interesting threads on aussie travel, the uk, europe, cananda, france and beyond!

also the olympics in china and the tour de france and our little caravan up the east coast of africa....

many FUN international a/s issues....

most of the a/s world could care less about that club NOW....

be part of the world wally travelers!

cheers
2air'

[mistral blue]

Sorry everyone. Please delete my posts here too. You guys are like rock stars to me. From now on I'll just stay in the audience and cheer you on with my zippo lit and mouth shut.

[LuminumTraila]

Sorry. Please pardon my interest. Didn't know you only wanted cheerleading.

Rah, rah, go Team! Go to Africa!

That's it. That's all I got.

Guess you can take my posts out too.

-J

[Buttercup]

When I think about it I can't see why the liability is an issue really and why the liability concerns would be any different for this ot any caravan. When it comes down to it, you face risk just walking out the door. Imagine the international and a freak hail storm that damages every single unit out there...How is WBCCI protected from that?
I am sorry but I see this as a little bit of a copout.

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

Here is the reason which was given to the orgainzers:

The decision has been difficult for the EC and many pros and cons have
been internally discussed. A sincere effort was made to make it
possible, however, unknown liability and provisions for obtaining
adequate insurance were the primary causes for disapproval. The EC
believes strongly that provisions of the OHIO law governing our
corporation (WBCCI) do not allow us the option of placing the Club in
potential jeopardy from unknown litigation from participants

and heirs of the caravan. Waivers and releases are not sufficiently
sound to fully protect the organization and this must be our primary
consideration

Bill

[overlander63]

Admin note:
This thread is for the discussion of the WBCCI's decision to not allow an official caravan. These posts have been moved from the Capetown to Cairo thread