Calling All WBCCI Members!

[Pschoerrn]

We are proud to present our new Avatar!! Thanks to Leo (GT65) for customising it for us!!

Wally loved Germany and Germany loves Wally!!
There was a picture in one of the big Airstream Books showing an Airstream in destroyed Cologne, if I recall that right...


Thanks to all SaveWally.org Members and to those of you who run the whole thing!! Great Job!!

Bjoern

[cooperhawk]

Originally Posted by pyanke

Cooperhawk, I have been LOL since I started to read this thread. I was wondering just how far you going to pull their legs.
As for the savewally website, I went and looked. The agreement listed there did not seem to be that limiting. The worst part was the poor langauge and sentence structure in a couple of places.

Well, It was fun being the Devil's Advocate for a while. There were just a lot of things being said that were not accuarate and I would rather everyone see all the issues on any subject to be decided. I noticed that a very small percentage of forum or WBCCI members were participating and that when people in favor of the name change would comment, they were quickly being put down. I really hate bullies! Unfortunately, that is how politics works these days, and that is what it was.

I still don't really care what they call the group. I do think that the club needs to modernize, and they need to start someplace. Maybe a name change would help. Can't say.

I know quite a few of the Officers and I think they will try to represent the members the best they can. There are a lot of silent folks with opinions who have probably expressed their wishes to their officers. Should be interesting.

[Pschoerrn]

Originally Posted by Pschoerrn

Thanks to Leo (GT65) for customising it for us!!

Sorry folks I have to correct myself... It was not GT65 who made the Avatar, it was 65GT, but whos name still is Leo and whom we still thank for doing it!!

THANKS Leo (65GT)

Bjoern

[Buttercup]

Bjoern,

Good to see international support for the No Name Change movement. Thank you for having the courage to take a stand and sporting an avatar stating so...

[wheel interested]

Interested in saving Wally? Wondering what you can do to help? Then look no further, Get armed to the teeth!

http://savewally.org/forums/index.php?topic=338.0

[Denis4x4]

I recently purchased a new AS and in the owner's packet was a very well done application to join the:

WALLY BYAM CARAVAN CLUB INTERNATIONAL.

Under the WBCCI logo were the words: "the Airstream RV Association". This is repeated on the inside flap and the intro paragraph reads:

"If you own any trailer or motorhome manufactured by Airstream, INC, WBCCI offers you fun and exciting opportunities to enjoy your Airstream and the RV lifestyle"

Quite frankly, I find the "save Wally" posts rather tedious and it gives me pause about joining the organization. Change is good. What if Wally stuck with the same designs and never changed a thing over the past 50 years?

Wally used the WBCCI as a promotional tool and I see no good reason why Thor shouldn't take the same stand to promote the AS product. I read the parsing of the constitution and by-laws and came to the conclusion that too many people in the organization have to much time on their hands.

We bought our trailer to escape the petty politics of local and regional organizations. I belong to a car club that has no rules, no meetings, no dues and everybody is president. It's been working for 20 years and just keeps getting bigger!

BTW, one of our tours was taking over the Shady Dell for the whole weekend.

A final thought: Put these strings on a password protected site available to members only.

[wheel interested]

Whoops! Looks like you entered the wrong thread. WBCCI has an upcoming vote for it's members, this thread is about your choices on the vote posed by the no name change supporters.

[yukionna]

Originally Posted by 65GT

So riddle me this...

How come 700+ WBCCI members can agree to add Airstream to the club name and the IBT jumps through hoops to make it happen, yet 268 members from a single unit HAD NO OPPORTUNITY to vote this past weekend?

Do you know what that unit's by-laws state with regards to voting? This situation could have happened because of the unit's existing by-laws. Some by-laws mandate that voting must be done in person; other by-laws mandate that voting can be done by mail-in ballot but so many days advance notice is needed. The name change situation snuck up on alot of units and perhaps many of them that realized they wanted to do a mail-in ballot didn't realize it in time to organize a mail-in ballot.

With regards to distribution of votes within a unit, again one must look at the by-laws. Some mandate an exact count be presented whereas others mandate a percent distribution (which is what seemed to have happened in the case you illustrated above).

[yukionna]

65GT -- Thanks for the concise summary of the past years events with regards to WBCCI, the IBT and the name change vote. Anyone who has been somewhat active on these forums should now understand the name change situation and its history. Additionally, you should be commended for your persistence and enthusiasm about making sure the message is out there. Between this forum, your personal savewally.org website, and your monetary commitment, I can see the single-minded dedication you have when you believe in a cause.

My question to you and everyone else is what is next on the agenda after International? 65GT et al have pointed out areas within the WBCCI organization that perhaps should be revisited. What have we learned from this experience and how will we use these learnings in a constructive manner moving forward to drive changes?

[bryanl]

I blame the IBT. The buck stops with the IBT.

What can we learn? What is next on the agenda?

First, the blame is not with the IBT, it is with the membership. Always has been and always will be. We vote not only by activism but also by apathy. We have responsibilities that we can meet or ignore depending upon what we think important. We have responsibilities to run for office, to serve, and to do so with integrity and diligence. We will reap our rewards and see the consequences of what we do or don't do for and with our organization.

Second is that cohesiveness and unity are not served by finger pointing, blaming, and acerbic or divisive us-vs-them rhetoric. It is not served by failing to accept the consequences of one's own actions or being disloyal when a proper decision has been made that we do not like. It is not served by using innapropriate procedures to correct faults or other problems.

Third is to figure out why the WBCCI exists. What is it? What makes is special and unique? Is it an acerbic debating society or perhaps something else?

Fourth is to look at what the organization does and what we do in the organization when measured against why it exists. Does it contribute? Detract? Or just spin wheels? When we act within the club or in its name or in some way related to the club, do our actions reflect what the club is all about?

Finally we need to look at how we can strengthen those actions that emphasize why WBCCI exists and furthers its identity and purpose and reason for being. Let go of those things that are not WBCCI; tend and care for those that are.

SaveWally is one way to overcome and bypass perceived problems in the organization and get the word out. But I wonder what would be the outcome if, rather than finding enemies to fight, it started with one on one debate and creating friendships? I wonder what would happen if the efforts involved in communications were directed instead towards helping WBCCI become more effective in utilizing those methods? If instead of picking fights and being combative the efforts were more towards training, enlightenment, and persuasion via example and demonstration?

Is WBCCI about circling the wagons anticipating an Indian attack? Or is it about getting to the top of the next horizon to share the view with friends?

[bryanl]

Why doesn’t this club have a one member one vote policy in place?

Because the membership chose another form of representation and delegation when the club was formed. A student of US History or Robert's Rules or the WBCCI could learn a lot about consensus politics and the necessities of governance by representation in widely dispersed organizations and the solutions that have been shown to work. It should be a part of every citizen's civic education, IMHO.

There is a reason why things are the way the are. A first step to change is understanding those reasons properly.

Members are mad, angry, disappointed, disgusted, considering dropping their memberships all over this name change issue.

The voting does not indicate that this is a good generality. It would also be rather sad because for such emotions to govern one's life would make for a rather bitter existence, IMHO.

If you still think you’d like to try and change my personal stance ...

Challenges are never productive towards consensus. It is a win/lose approach that seldom contributes towards healthy groups (or healthy people). It creates conditions where some members are loosers. Is that really a desired goal in any organization?

Responding to such challenges would be foolish because people do not change that way. Efforts are better spent for those others who read and discuss and think; who realize that very few things in the real world are black and white; who have an open mind and a willingness to learn about issues and events and history. These are the people who are being addressed. They are the ones we can depend upon for solid well reasoned decisions that, overall, will make for long term health and vitality.

[Over59]

Originally Posted by Leipper

What can we learn? What is next on the agenda?

First, the blame is not with the IBT, it is with the membership. Always has been and always will be. We vote not only by activism but also by apathy. We have responsibilities that we can meet or ignore depending upon what we think important. We have responsibilities to run for office, to serve, and to do so with integrity and diligence. We will reap our rewards and see the consequences of what we do or don't do for and with our organization.

Second is that cohesiveness and unity are not served by finger pointing, blaming, and acerbic or divisive us-vs-them rhetoric. It is not served by failing to accept the consequences of one's own actions or being disloyal when a proper decision has been made that we do not like. It is not served by using innapropriate procedures to correct faults or other problems.

Third is to figure out why the WBCCI exists. What is it? What makes is special and unique? Is it an acerbic debating society or perhaps something else?

Fourth is to look at what the organization does and what we do in the organization when measured against why it exists. Does it contribute? Detract? Or just spin wheels? When we act within the club or in its name or in some way related to the club, do our actions reflect what the club is all about?

Finally we need to look at how we can strengthen those actions that emphasize why WBCCI exists and furthers its identity and purpose and reason for being. Let go of those things that are not WBCCI; tend and care for those that are.

SaveWally is one way to overcome and bypass perceived problems in the organization and get the word out. But I wonder what would be the outcome if, rather than finding enemies to fight, it started with one on one debate and creating friendships? I wonder what would happen if the efforts involved in communications were directed instead towards helping WBCCI become more effective in utilizing those methods? If instead of picking fights and being combative the efforts were more towards training, enlightenment, and persuasion via example and demonstration?

Is WBCCI about circling the wagons anticipating an Indian attack? Or is it about getting to the top of the next horizon to share the view with friends?

All very nice points. But the organization is structured to minimize member input. Look at how elections are run, one candidate for each position secretly selected by the nominating committee which seems to spring out of a whole in the ground. Like Cuba your choice is to vote or not vote, period.
The point here is the IBT reasons only they know have offered the club to Thor. At least they could disclose what they will get in return.

[Over59]

Originally Posted by Leipper

Challenges are never productive towards consensus. It is a win/lose approach that seldom contributes towards healthy groups (or healthy people). It creates conditions where some members are loosers. Is that really a desired goal in any organization?

You are wrong. Consensus is for those too weak to present their position and stick up for it until the vote is counted. Voting means some win and some don't. Your idea that someone is a loser if their side doesn't win, so don't have any conflict like voting, sounds like play nice children and let those who know best decide. I am not a child, I love conflict, I teach conflict to those who have been convinced to be victims, and I am for WBCCI. Not the IBT benefit package, not AOIAOAI ect or Thor.

PS. Membership in Wally's A Carnival Club International is open to everyone who shows up in an Airstream. Sticker will be ready soon... \

Join WACCI ... give'em a wack...

[bryanl]

But the organization is structured to minimize member input. Look at how elections are run, one candidate for each position secretly selected by the nominating committee which seems to spring out of a whole in the ground.

Many (even perhaps most) organizations like WBCCI are hurting for volunteers to step forward. Why don't you have your Unit delegate nominate you from the floor? When is the last time you asked the President for a slot on the nominating committee? When is the last time you corresponded with your Region officers about filling an empty position?

There is nothing secret unless you choose to equate ignorance, apathy, and lack of participation with secrecy. (but claiming secrecy and conspiracy is oh so much jucier!)

I also do not agree that the organization is "structured to minimize member input" as the length of time and the process involved in the name change debacle (debate?) so clearly illustrates. It is structured so that important issues are not hastily implemented and the will of the members has time to be felt and realized - just as is now happening.

You are wrong. Consensus is for those too weak to present their position

Such judgment! And such an error on the nature of consensus.

Consensus requires strength. Consensus has to do with having the courage to accept other people, listen to their point of view, attempting to persuade them to your point of view or at least educate them about things they may not have considered. Consensus means accepting a vote and taking the result as one's own even if it is not totally in line with your views and opinions. Consensus means having the courage to set aside personal ambition, greed, and preference for a greater good and greater strength in appropriate circumstances.

Check out what Robert's Rules says about the goal of a deliberative assembly in making decisions!

The point here is the IBT reasons only they know have offered the club to Thor

This is a gross misreading of the offered and negotiated agreement. It would stand no rigorous impartial inspection. But the assertion is a good example of just how irrational the so called debate has become.

If someone wants to LEAD this club priority number one should be giving members real voting rights including members-at-large.

No one 'gives' voting rights. Membership is not an entitlement. People make choices when they join (and joining is voluntary) and those choices have consequences. The organization decides how it is to function and operate and who has what privileges. It conveys voting privileges as a contract expecting something in return.

And, of course, we have the "back in 1955' canard. How about back to 1776? or 1215? Technology may change but people in societies have not. The issues, needs, rights, and responsibilities are a common thread and the solutions found over past centuries provide learning that is used today in establishing customs, rules of procedure, and governance methods in all successful organizations.

I certainly don't want them attempting to lead me anywhere!

The issue is, then, why don't you lead? Step up, step forward. Get out and convince the membership to elect you. Show that you can lead. Yes this takes work. Yes it takes effort and learning and skill. Yes it takes committment and time.

Its a lot easier to sit and carp and carry on and pretend a reality that doesn't exist by making up conspiracy theories and denigrating those ideas that do not fit in your world.

It's a whole lot harder to learn about governance, why it is the way it is, to meet and greet people and get them to see you as a leader to follow and whose ideas are well considered and worth a hearing.

In this thread, the issue should be how best to convince WBCCI voting members that the name change proposed for a vote in the upcoming meeting be turned down. The question is whether all of this diatribe about secret orders, conspiracies, selling out, membership entitlements, and so on is helping or hurting the desired position.

[yukionna]

Originally Posted by Over59

You are wrong. Consensus is for those too weak to present their position and stick up for it until the vote is counted. Voting means some win and some don't. Your idea that someone is a loser if their side doesn't win, so don't have any conflict like voting, sounds like play nice children and let those who know best decide. I am not a child, I love conflict, I teach conflict to those who have been convinced to be victims, and I am for WBCCI. Not the IBT benefit package, not AOIAOAI ect or Thor.

PS. Membership in Wally's A Carnival Club International is open to everyone who shows up in an Airstream. Sticker will be ready soon... \

Join WACCI ... give'em a wack...

Not to belabor individual points, but I have a slight clarification -- "consensus" is not the process in conflict management but the goal. My clarification could be just a nit as I think perhaps Leipper was referring to "consensus building" which is the general term for the process/strategies used in conflict management to reach the goal of "consensus". The process of conflict management (i.e., consensus building) involves different strategies such as collaboration, compromise, competition, accommodation and/or avoidance. This thread is actually a good example for anyone wanting to understand conflict and consensus building -- if you look closely you can see all strategies in use. Fun to watch, for sure.

[LuminumTraila]

Originally Posted by yukionna

65GT -- Thanks for the concise summary of the past years events with regards to WBCCI, the IBT and the name change vote. Anyone who has been somewhat active on these forums should now understand the name change situation and its history. Additionally, you should be commended for your persistence and enthusiasm about making sure the message is out there...

Would just like to add my thanks to 65GT for the commitment, and for the wealth of information and history on the name change vote.

Originally Posted by yukionna

My question to you and everyone else is what is next on the agenda after International? 65GT et al have pointed out areas within the WBCCI organization that perhaps should be revisited. What have we learned from this experience and how will we use these learnings in a constructive manner moving forward to drive changes?

Like 65GT and others have said in many threads surrounding the name change issue, communication (or the communication breakdown) is one thing that deserves priority attention. And just to give an example of one thing that could be done to improve the situation, I think a major reworking of the Blue Beret magazine is in order. It's a direct link between members and the International, maybe the only link on a regular basis. As it exists, much of it is a waste of print. That's not to insult any one person or office who works to get it out; I'm sure they work hard on it and do their best with what they're given. But imagine if it had been used over the last year to bring us the information on the name change vote that SaveWally has compiled, with discussion and debate by members and officers, a column of letters to the President and IBT, with their responses -- we would all have been much better informed on what was going on, especially our members who are not internet users.

[Over59]

Originally Posted by yukionna

Not to belabor individual points, but I have a slight clarification -- "consensus" is not the process in conflict management but the goal. My clarification could be just a nit as I think perhaps Leipper was referring to "consensus building" which is the general term for the process/strategies used in conflict management to reach the goal of "consensus". The process of conflict management (i.e., consensus building) involves different strategies such as collaboration, compromise, competition, accommodation and/or avoidance. This thread is actually a good example for anyone wanting to understand conflict and consensus building -- if you look closely you can see all strategies in use. Fun to watch, for sure.

The best way to resolve a conflict is to win...... The rest of the stuff is management consultant tactics to get people to agree with what the powers to be want and have them think it was their idea also. Thus the claim it was the members' idea to change the name. The superior tone of the three digit member is consistent with the leadership style of those who know what's best. Still WACCI membership is open to everyone and dedicated to keeping Wally in the game....

[bryanl]

Thanks yukionna for a good point and clarification. On the other topic raised ...

The purpose of a nominations committee is to assure that there is at least one good candidate for each office.

The purpose of the "escalator run" is to provide training so that the leaders of the association have hands on experience in the different aspects of its operations.

We see again a misguided effort, I think. It is based on a false premise and two questionable assumptions. The premise is that the only way to put a candidate on the ballot is through the nominations committee. The assumptions concern any need for elected officer experience and training and the idea that having multiple choices will mean better choices.

I think a better guided effort would be to suggest an alternative for developing experienced, talented, and dedicated association leaders (other than wishful thinking to fill a ballot). Find new ways to improve the leader training and development. Figure out how to encourage people to step forward and undertake the leadership responsibility.

In my view, castigating those who did step forward and maligning them is no way to encourage others to step forward as well. We need to support, encourage, and assist those who do put it on the line - those who don't just talk but actually commit to action. They need all the help and encouragement they can get - especially in troubled times. When we show that we support, encourage, and assist our leaders then I think we will see their replacements more eager to step forward.

[bryanl]

The best way to resolve a conflict is to win

The lesson from history is that the best way is for everyone to win. That creates unity and strength.

A win for the purpose of making someone else loose creates division and, eventually, dissolution.

from what I see "The superior tone of the three digit member" is hardly matched by the tone and 'tude of the conflict generators and conspiracy mongerers.

But I have to be careful, here. I have a "three digit number" as well. But I don't think it is one of those you set aside as a part of the group to hate. That business of segregation to create a group to impugn and denigrate is one that readers of this forum should consider very very carefully.

[66Overlander]

I am strongly against AOAI and I am a staunch SaveWally supporter, but I have to agree that casting this issue as an "us vs. them" situation is not the best way to acheive the desired results with respect to the name change or any other issue.

I want to thank those that have stepped up to club leadership positions, because without Leaders, there wouldn't be a club. Maybe at the local Unit level things could be pretty informal, but to run an organization the size of WBCCI takes time and commitment. Time and commitment that I don't currently have (at least while I am working).

I beleive the name change was put forth by our leaders in good faith that it was what the membership wanted (or at least something they would agree to). However, I think the issue is that the proposed new name (AOAI) came back far too "radical" for most members tastes and far more radical that the previous vote to "add Airstream to the current name of the club" implied. Leadership needs to recognize this fact and stop the adamant support and lobbying for AOAI. If they'd recognize this fact and open up a better dialog with the club members, this situation could be improved and a better proposal developed.

For us merely club members, I continue to endorse a proactive course of action if you don't support AOAI:
- Visit SaveWally.com
- Converse with your Unit, Region, and National officers on this motion
- Educate others in your Unit about this topic (especially those without internet access)
- And by all means do whatever you have to to make sure your vote is counted

I know I have done all of this, including conversing with 2 Region Presidents, and even the head of the Name Change comittee himself on this issue.

What will you do?