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Old 02-11-2010, 12:16 PM   #29
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You can now add to list the termination of Leo G.
what?
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:22 PM   #30
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I guess I must have been Sleeping. What did the Club DO?? I see references to 2006 and 2007 but what did they do just recently. I'm still unclear to what they have done.( Sorry Im a little slow at my age). OUTLAW Robs attempt to have a birthday bash. Does WBCCI own the Wally Byram Name??? See this is why I will not join. When they actually CRASH and BURN, and reorginize,with all new top brass,then I will think about joinin. I aint holdin my breath and I dont think Im gonna live that long.
PLEASE someone bring me up to date. Carol HELP!
Roger you have it basically all correct. However when the Birthday Bash was planned it was not as a forums rally but as a WBCCI rally. In either case the Airstream participants are already signed and it will proceed as planned. the only difference is that the WBCCI is laying claim to Wally Byam's name through legal action.

The history of what the leadership has done goes to show the incredible irony of leadership claiming to be trying to protect the club and the club's name in forcing the sponsors to change the rally's name.

You are doing just fine Roger, you got it covered just right. How do you own a name when it isn't yours? Interesting to me as well, but I am not a lawyer. George Washington's family doesn't sue for president's' day sales titled under his name, and neither should WBCCI take away that bit of recognition to the purpose of the rally to maintain that same obstructionist stance they adopt to maintain their control and psychological tethers on Airstreamers gathering in WB fashion and purpose. Many pictures and items do probably reside in the public domain of usage and copyrights, especially under the limitations of personal use.
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:36 PM   #31
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Adjective not Noun

During my previous gainful employment time, our legal staff cautioned us to be sure to use trademarks as adjectives and not nouns. Use it as a noun and you can loose it. Just ask Bayer over their Aspirin brand of pain reliever. It was a bowl of Jello (R) gelatin desert and not a bowl of Jello. We go camping in an Airstream (R) (brand) recreational vehicle and not in an Airstream.

(R) is for trademarks that have been registered with the USPTO, while claimed but non-registered trademarks are indicated by (tm).

Just for fun, go to the US Patent and Trademark Office ( uspto.gov) and do a trademark search on the terms "Wally Byam". As of yesterday, there were two live trademarks that had been registered.

Serial # 73758573, Registration # 1560836 "Wally Byam Caravan Club International Blue Beret"

Serial # 72063521, Registration # 0695445 "Wally Byam's Caravan Club. Inc."

A search on the terms "Blue Beret" gave 3 results - the above listed '836 registration plus two dead registrations for - "Blue Beret" and "Blue Beret Club News VV B CC".

The Club logo design would fall under copyright laws and not trademarks. A copyright covers the specific work, item, or object. It does not cover the idea.
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Old 02-11-2010, 01:16 PM   #32
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Is anyone familiar with the concept of 'Fair Use'? I would think this would be covered by it, but of course the law itself is so vague the only way to prove it is to go to court.
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:39 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
Roger you have it basically all correct. However when the Birthday Bash was planned it was not as a forums rally but as a WBCCI rally. In either case the Airstream participants are already signed and it will proceed as planned. the only difference is that the WBCCI is laying claim to Wally Byam's name through legal action.

The history of what the leadership has done goes to show the incredible irony of leadership claiming to be trying to protect the club and the club's name in forcing the sponsors to change the rally's name.
I am going to clarify a few things here... Originally we planned the Birthday Bash to be a WBCCI only event. When it became apparent that doing that excluded many we decided to make it open to anyone that was interested. We chose to fore go the blanket insurance and obtain our own coverage. It seemed counter to Airstream Spirit to exclude people.

We complied to the C&D not out of fear, but because we are not the litigious types. Our Lawyer advised us that we could easily have fought them and cost them tens of thousands of dollars had we filed a very simple motion. Once again what is the point, we do not need to do such things, which do not promote good Airstream Spirit.

The last thing I want to clarify is we have no idea who had the letter sent. What we do know is he or she is a coward. A simple phone call was all that was needed. We were given permission by Mr. Schwamborn to use pictures from his late Mothers estate of Mr. Byam. Instead we choose to use an image from a 1954 trailer that predates the club.

Petty Petty cowards. A phone call could have been place. Instead a lawyer was used and NOW it has polarized even more people.
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:46 PM   #34
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Hey Frank, you could have used it.

I have done many trademark cases in Federal Court, if there's no registered mark you or anyone else can use it.

It's a bit more complex than this but that the general idea.
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:18 PM   #35
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Fair Use applies to copyright and reproducing materials - I know because I had to defend against that when a WBCCI forums webmaster reported to my hosting provider that I was hosting copyright information from his site.

In this case, trademark, WBCCI actually fails, and will be challenged on, the use of trademark. Because looking at their trademark application and subsequent renewals, there is one piece of information missing - how that "Collective Membership Mark" is to be used. It is not documented in their application, nor is it in the Blue Beret or constitution. Indeed, the free "collateral" that WBCCI has on it's site has no guidelines for use of it's trademark whatsoever.

So WBCCI is electing to selectively challenge the use of it's trademark, of which the Birthday Bash was likely NOT in violation. I am a member (for now) of WBCCI and that logo was being used in a subdomain that had a Unit Guide - a program to HELP prospective members pick a unit and join WBCCI.

In retrospect, the timing of these letters is not a surprise, but rather a coordinated effort against 2 members of WBCCI no longer in the club (if Leo was indeed kicked out). You cannot have NON-members using that trademark. So a few days before leo gets kicked out, the notices go out to comply OR ELSE and then bang the big 'ol boot.

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Is anyone familiar with the concept of 'Fair Use'? I would think this would be covered by it, but of course the law itself is so vague the only way to prove it is to go to court.
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:41 PM   #36
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Our Lawyer advised us that we could easily have fought them and cost them tens of thousands of dollars had we filed a very simple motion. Once again what is the point, we do not need to do such things, which do not promote good Airstream Spirit.

The last thing I want to clarify is we have no idea who had the letter sent. What we do know is he or she is a coward. A simple phone call was all that was needed.

Petty Petty cowards. A phone call could have been place. Instead a lawyer was used and NOW it has polarized even more people.
Perhaps yer right, a call may have sufficed, but the letter as I read it came from council representing WBCCI. A lawyer always sends things in writing and I can't say their method was cowardly or brave. It is what it is, but I will say, given what I've read here and on SW, folks here have been talking litigation against WBCCI for a variety of issues, possible issues, etc, so to me, it should come as no surprise to anyone that they'd take a more formal approach given what has transpired over the past 6 or so months.

Right can be a subjective thing, open to interpretation. If you feel you all were wronged and are so sure of yourselves, you shouldn't have backed down so quickly. Personally I think you did the right thing, but if some of you out there think otherwise, go ahead and push the envelope, see what comes out. Might be what you expect, or it might not be. If yer wrong though, you could be responsible for not only your own costs but that of the other party.

Frank is right though, why polarize the community further with it, I mean SW hasn't polarized it enough, what's one more log onto the fire....
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:46 PM   #37
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For the novice, what is SW please?
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:47 PM   #38
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Old 02-11-2010, 04:16 PM   #39
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WB Holiday is and Airstream

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Originally Posted by 62overlander View Post
heres another photo I own...
Attachment 95994

the Holiday is real beautiful little trailer. I wonder if a Holiday is allowed at a WBCCI event since it was not actually built by Airstream, it was built by Holiday.
Attachment 95998

Attachment 95997

Attachment 95996

Attachment 95995

Just for the record Frank,

The "Holiday" is a name like "Overlander" It was produced in a separate building somewhere near the Ohio main factory. It was certified to be an Airstream and allowed at any WBCCI Function back in 2002! I had a signed authorization back then when I was a VAC Officer but couldn't tell you where it is now! On that same document was the authorization for the 1946 Curtis Wright Clipper to join the WBCCI as well!

WAM
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Old 02-11-2010, 04:17 PM   #40
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If you feel you all were wronged and are so sure of yourselves, you shouldn't have backed down so quickly. Personally I think you did the right thing, but if some of you out there think otherwise, go ahead and push the envelope, see what comes out. Might be what you expect, or it might not be.
As Frank suggested... we are not the types to do such a thing... we have lives and families and jobs... no time available to play these games with the old farts.

Just moving on so that we can focus on having fun.
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:00 PM   #41
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Frank is right though, why polarize the community further with it, I mean SW hasn't polarized it enough, what's one more log onto the fire....
That is a good ambient warming fire log I might add.

Seriously though, Save Wally has been there to aid membership in retaining the name and brand identity of WBCCI when the leadership would have scuttled it in their quest for more revenue and failed at all. As pendelums go, the force is only equal to that in the opposite direction. It is acutely necessary. When no one dare say boo upon threat and veil of the code of ethics, SW was asking why not?
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:28 PM   #42
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Yes - I am sure that if SaveWally had not been there, WBCCI today would have been the AOAI and there would be Fourwinds motorhomes in the club today. Like SaveWally or not - it has done more to preserve the history of WBCCI than the IBT over the last 4 years. And I am not saying that from the standpoint of being one of the founders and owners of SaveWally, but rather from the collective efforts of hundreds of people who got involved at every level.
Honestly, People can bash Save Wally if they want - I am not that sensitive - but I don't get people who will sing WBCCI's praises but just do not take that step to write that check. I have written 3 this year alone.... Not anymore.
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