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Old 02-11-2010, 07:23 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by mistermike View Post
Ah, but now that an independent group is going to do honor annually to the man singularly responsible for the Airstream trailer they finally see the light and want to try to prevent them from doing it by unleashing mad-dog lawyers.

Does this action truly represent the will of the members who are in essence the club?

I think not.
I think so. I applaud WBCCI for defending it's name and it's members. I think they were perhaps more concerned that the Birthday Bash was going to be used as the start of a competing club than they were that it was going to cause confusion about the event itself. I am sure they did not want a part of their name used for that purpose. At least that my guess, right or wrong.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:27 AM   #16
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Folks in many places may say that the actions taken were not appropriate, but IMHO, as has been pointed out on other threads, any .org, corp, etc does the exact same thing. A trademark or copyrighted material is owned by the owner, not the borrower and cannot be used without permission. If you look at TOS in many forums they specifically say, you cannot post copyrighted materials or materials that you do not own without permission. Many go so far as to say if you do the forums are not responsible for it.

In the old days (pre-Internet) it was not as widely found because you had to really get out there. Today, anyone with a keyboard or mouse can post nearly anything and there are billions of folks who can access the data quickly. Same rules of the past are just as relevant to the electronic frontier.

Some may disagree, some may not but in the end, it's up to the trademark/copyright holder to make that call. Clearly WBCCI, Airstream and others have made a decision which is appropriate to them to protect their brand, regardless of motivation.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:48 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
A trademark or copyrighted material is owned by the owner, not the borrower and cannot be used without permission.
Twink,

The logo we used is a picture of the name plate on a '55 Byam's Holiday trailer (owned by one of the attendees) which is an Airstream product and not property of the WBBCI. Also note that the name plate predates the WBCC.

The name Wally Byam Birthday Bash was chosen because the event is the celebration of the birthday of a guy named Wally Byam...duh!

All communications with attendees and prospective attendees included a prominent disclosure that this was NOT A WBCCI EVENT.

The WBCCI is defending nothing other than their ability to throw their weight around and waste the clubs money. Just more of the bullying that is turning so many people away.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:54 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by 66Overlander View Post
I think they were perhaps more concerned that the Birthday Bash was going to be used as the start of a competing club than they were that it was going to cause confusion about the event itself.
Joe,

Is this still America we live in?

Might some of us be allowed to start a club if we so choose? ...or does the WBCCI only have the right to a club that honors Wally and the Airstream product?

Please listen to what you are actually saying.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:56 AM   #19
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Waht's funny

Byam Caravanner,

Right... probably $1000 between the Save Wally letter and the Birthday Bash letter. What's funny, is that they gave us a 10 day response window, and after spending a grand, they couldn't spend the $4 to certify it (I know their bank is hurting)...

You all can track my response letter though.... at USPS - The United States Postal Service (U.S. Postal Service) - tracking number (via certified mail) - 7007 3020 0001 9446 7778

Except for posting this, I could have just as easily say, "What letter?" I never received one if I had wanted.. but no, I'm doing things the right way.

And yes, the Wally Byam Holiday will be front and center and be the center piece of the BASH weekend with it's special spot on the Wagon Wheel!

What's even more funny, a simple phone call, or email, and we probably would have said, ok, and changed it. But no, zero communication prior to the infamous letter.

Stream on!!
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:06 AM   #20
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heres another photo I own...
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the Holiday is real beautiful little trailer. I wonder if a Holiday is allowed at a WBCCI event since it was not actually built by Airstream, it was built by Holiday.
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:09 AM   #21
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You should have called the rally My Wally Byam's Holiday.
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:31 AM   #22
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I'm with" rgesch" there are a few threads "I Don't get". This is our 3rd.year Streamin and don't know the history or politics. I think i have "Political " Overload with all the national and state political issues. To me my spare time should be about Camping and Friendship's.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:02 AM   #23
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I guess I must have been Sleeping. What did the Club DO?? I see references to 2006 and 2007 but what did they do just recently. I'm still unclear to what they have done.( Sorry Im a little slow at my age). OUTLAW Robs attempt to have a birthday bash. Does WBCCI own the Wally Byram Name??? See this is why I will not join. When they actually CRASH and BURN, and reorginize,with all new top brass,then I will think about joinin. I aint holdin my breath and I dont think Im gonna live that long.
PLEASE someone bring me up to date. Carol HELP!
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:45 AM   #24
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What has happened. Several people, who have resigned from WBCCI, had decided to hold a rally and call it "Wally Byam Birthday Bash". The WBCCI president (with or without consultation with the other members of the board) decided to get their retained lawyers to write a letter to the organizers to get them to change the name. (To get the complete letter you will need to read it on Save Wally forums site.) Basically, they told the organizers the logo they were using for the rally resembled the official club logo and the name was similar to the WBCCI name. The logo was not an exact copy, as they stated by other posters above. It would necessitate a court case and a judge to determine if they had really violated the copyright law and issue an injunction. The organizers got scared and backed away, changing the name of the rally. This is pretty commonly the result in this kind of case. Big money scares little people into submitting.

Save Wally says they also received a threatening letter and have added a full disclosure statement to the top of their website.

The Airstream Company did the same thing to this forum site several years ago and the owner of this site changed its name to AirForums to avoid the argument.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:46 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byamcaravanner View Post
Twink,

The logo we used is a picture of the name plate on a '55 Byam's Holiday trailer (owned by one of the attendees) which is an Airstream product and not property of the WBBCI. Also note that the name plate predates the WBCC.

The name Wally Byam Birthday Bash was chosen because the event is the celebration of the birthday of a guy named Wally Byam...duh!

All communications with attendees and prospective attendees included a prominent disclosure that this was NOT A WBCCI EVENT.

The WBCCI is defending nothing other than their ability to throw their weight around and waste the clubs money. Just more of the bullying that is turning so many people away.
I could be wrong here Steve, but didn't WBCCI start the Wally Byam Birthday Bash or something to that effect? Bottom line, it's not my call what they do, but I can't say they were wrong and in the end, it would appear folks complied so perhaps they too understood copyright/trademark info better than you or I. As for bullying, go and create an Airstream forum or sell Airstream created stuff and see what Airstream does in terms of protecting their brand. I can promise you without question you'll get a similar response from Airstream. Does that mean Airstream too is bullying folks? Not at all, it's their right to protect their brand. The only issue is that you and others have an ax to grind with WBCCI so of course these kinds of conclusions are not only expected, but commonplace. I read the letter that Rob posted and it said that there was mixed info and the letter was right. In one post it did say that this was a WBCCI event and later on it said it didn't. Moot now because the entire thread was yanked.

As for the comment on $1000 for legal fees, I'd love to know where the source of this info is. Who is to say the work was not done pro bono from a member or a friend? Without facts it's hard to say either way what it really cost with any certainty, if anything, but postage. I have friends that help me out from time to time with real estate kind of stuff and they either don't charge me or charge me very modest amounts. But it is possible that they spent $1000, I really don't know-- at best it's a guess.
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:03 AM   #26
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Thanks Dwight for bringing me up to speed. I dont read every thread so I may have missed it somewhere along the line. I still wonder if (the club) owns the Wally Byam NAME . If so they can claim anyones name. So does that mean I need to Copy Right my name to protect it???
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:27 AM   #27
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Another lost opportunity!

Being a member of the WBCCI, I find it funny the thing that no more than a few years ago they (the WBCCI IBT) were willing to throw out the door with the name change is now so sacred to them to the point requesting the name change of a non-WBCCI event. I understand the whole “it was/was not” confusion about being a WBCCI event and how some “might” have been confused on the ownership of the rally, Wally's image, etc...


I only wish the amount of time/brain power/effort/etc… that was put into the decision to send out the letter, write the letter and send it, could be put into making the WBCCI a better club of which to be a part of as an Airstream owner.


If they wanted to do something of use, the WBCCI should have offered to be a “sponsor” of the rally and offered a discount for those that signed-up with the WBCCI at the rally! Now there’s thinking out of the box.



Once again, another lost opportunity for the WBCCI to shine!
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:58 AM   #28
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You can now add to list the termination of Leo G.
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