Bob Thompson suspended from WBCCI for expressing his opinions about the IBT

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by Skater

Can I ask a dumb question? There are people that post in every thread in this forum that say, "This is why I don't join WBCCI." Well, then, why are you bothering with this forum? Obviously WBCCI must hold SOME interest for you.

"This is why I don't join WBCCI" has been said in this forum a million times. And this has been said a million times, too, but I'll say it again: "Some of the unit rallies are GREAT. That's why we stay in it." I just got back from another excellent WDCU Outer Banks rally yesterday, my third WDCU rally this year, and I've had a great time at all of them. (Side note: WDCU managed to pick up ANOTHER membership while we were there, just like we did in 2006. How did you do that, you might ask? We invited them to our gatherings and had fun. Strange how that works.)

But on to the original topic: I'm very disappointed to see this. I can see why Bob's message annoyed them; it's written in a rather inflammatory tone. But to suspend him over it? No. When your region presidents are telling you there is a problem with the club, perhaps you should listen to them instead of censuring them.

Also, I think it's likely few of us would've heard about this letter except that the IBT (or whatever) took this drastic step.

Skater,

That is a great question. I guess that it is like watching a train wreck, you just can't look away. WDCU is a great unit, there are many more great units. El Camino Real in So Cal is a great unit. If you live in So Cal, come out and join us. You will seldom, if ever, hear a discussion of International politics at ECR rallies. My wife and I have had a great time for the past six years that we have been members. I obtained five year stars and they will go on both of our trailers.

Bill

[cameront120]

Originally Posted by Skater

Can I ask a dumb question? There are people that post in every thread in this forum that say, "This is why I don't join WBCCI." Well, then, why are you bothering with this forum? Obviously WBCCI must hold SOME interest for you.

I for one joined this forum before I owned an Airstream or even knew anything about the WBCCI. It took this forum to alert me to the concerns people had for the WBCCI. Concerns that I would have discovered had I done my own research about the organization. I won't join a club blindly without first knowing something about it. For now, I'm a fence sitter but these recent actions have made me seriously consider joining so that I can put my support behind those who are offering change.

[purman]

I think If people in the Units put posts up of the fun stuff that goes on, some of us might join.. But it seems we just see the politics, and I will say it again, "get enough of that in the real world, don't want it in my camping one..."

And I don't want to be told what to wear, how to have my flag, and whether I can or cannot put a lock on my tongue, and so on...

Are there events that don't have all the rules going on... I would love to hang out with other streamers for a weekend, talk and have fun...

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by purman

I think If people in the Units put posts up of the fun stuff that goes on, some of us might join.. But it seems we just see the politics, and I will say it again, "get enough of that in the real world, don't want it in my camping one..."

And I don't want to be told what to wear, how to have my flag, and whether I can or cannot put a lock on my tongue, and so on...

Are there events that don't have all the rules going on... I would love to hang out with other streamers for a weekend, talk and have fun...

Jason,

As I have said several times, WDCU, ECR and several other units including Denver, CO.

Bill

[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F

Carol,

The answer to the question "who has Bob's back" is Leo Garvey. For details see here:

http://savewally.org/forums/index.php?topic=1158.0

The Ethics and Grievance Committee hearing on the grievance filed against Leo is scheduled for WBCCI Headquarters at Jackson Center, Ohio on Sept 23 at 1:00. See here:

MetroNY Copes

Frankly, I expect that if they suspended Bob Thompson they will toss Leo out of the club permanently. We can hope that the Executive Committee will see the light before then. (Or, if not see the light, feel the heat.)

Maybe those of us who want to show our support for Leo ought to show up that day at Jackson Center. . .

(I would suggest coordinating with Leo first.)

Nuvi thanks for the heads up on Leo's hearing. Last I had heard he was hoping for the International should there be proceedings.

That is not good. The conclusion is foregone before the papers were drawn. How does one conduct themselves in a mock proceeding? In Leo's case I would say valiantly, eloquantly and perhaps with a surprise or two of his own.

I am holding out hope against hope that the current region and unit leadership will have their backs. Membership can make a showing but the leaders should they become unified would have some real clout. It has to be others that HAVE made a difference and will lay it on the line with their experience reputation and integrity and position, just as Bob and Leo have done to be able to save them. Um...I think we all know the impact members have on the IBT!!!

[Isadora]

Originally Posted by Skater

Can I ask a dumb question? There are people that post in every thread in this forum that say, "This is why I don't join WBCCI." Well, then, why are you bothering with this forum? Obviously WBCCI must hold SOME interest for you.

"This is why I don't join WBCCI" has been said in this forum a million times. And this has been said a million times, too, but I'll say it again: "Some of the unit rallies are GREAT. That's why we stay in it." I just got back from another excellent WDCU Outer Banks rally yesterday, my third WDCU rally this year, and I've had a great time at all of them. (Side note: WDCU managed to pick up ANOTHER membership while we were there, just like we did in 2006. How did you do that, you might ask? We invited them to our gatherings and had fun. Strange how that works.)

But on to the original topic: I'm very disappointed to see this. I can see why Bob's message annoyed them; it's written in a rather inflammatory tone. But to suspend him over it? No. When your region presidents are telling you there is a problem with the club, perhaps you should listen to them instead of censuring them.

Also, I think it's likely few of us would've heard about this letter except that the IBT (or whatever) took this drastic step.

Strange as it may seem to some of those who are WBCCI members, I didn't join this forum to learn about it and because I was interested in the club. In fact, I had never heard of it until I got in here. I joined because I wanted to own an Airstream, to learn about them and to meet like-minded people who wanted to have fun owning, restoring, camping and living in Airstreams. I actually thought seriously about joining WBCCI when I found out about it, but I have seen very few positive threads about it and that alone made me think I didn't want any part of it. Now, I have met several forum members who are WBCCI members, and they are very nice, great people whom I would like to call friends. I have no problem with the members of the club. What I see that I don't like are the politics, the squabbling, the stringent rules and regulations, the in-fighting and the thought that if I shot off my mouth I could get booted out of the club by someone who didn't agree with me. If I wanted in-fighting and feuding, I could go to a family reunion! I am sure I would enjoy the rallies and the members, it is the price to pay that goes with the fun that I don't need.

[63Silver]

Just like in every other part of our lives, it's about CUSTOMER SERVICE. You must give people what they are looking for or they will look elsewhere. There are many people on this forum including myself who have not joined the WBCCI but have thought about it for some time. If it takes that much thought put into joining or not someone needs to rethink it's value. I agree joining means you can create change from within but their must be some prospect that change will eventually occur and that change will be worth the pain. I believe in freedom of speech, sadly sometimes when we grow tired of speaking we start yelling. I wish Bob the best of luck and hope this is the thing that might shake the WBCCI into remember it's job, not worshiping the past but looking forward to the future.

63silver

[jimmini]

Originally Posted by purman

I think If people in the Units put posts up of the fun stuff that goes on, some of us might join.. But it seems we just see the politics, and I will say it again, "get enough of that in the real world, don't want it in my camping one..."

And I don't want to be told what to wear, how to have my flag, and whether I can or cannot put a lock on my tongue, and so on...

Are there events that don't have all the rules going on... I would love to hang out with other streamers for a weekend, talk and have fun...

Come take a look at the 4CU.We have no rules.Just fun camping with good folk.No trailer in a line,put up what ever flags you would like ,we will even let you put a lock on your trailer.You can also talk to some of our Colorado members.
Now I just told ever one on this thread that I would not post again on this thread but could not let you think there are not some realy nice units like 4CU.
Come take a look you might like us.

[shantz]

We ( my family) joined the WBCCI club due to the very strong local unit we have in Tidewater Virginia. We attended our first local rally in May and I have to tell you the club leaders really worked their tails off to make the event a great time for all.
I can't imagine the complexities of having to preside over a club as large as WBCCI and trying to make everyone happy. And let's admit some personalities are more happy pissing and whining than trying to get along.
I do believe that this man's letter no mater how well intentioned has left very little wiggle room for an amicable agreement. Ego's are now in play and larger battles have been fought for less.
Let's hope they work this out like gentlemen and do not tarnish the club's image.

[mbmbstreamer]

We joined the club because of it's history and the product. We continue attending events because of the members. We have met many nice folks in the club and have enjoyed unit, state, and international rallies. The politics may seem large here on the Forum, but it is not a factor at events we have attended...except during the Delegates' Meeting.

We argue here because we care about the future of the club and want to see it thrive...not wither. If we weren't sold, we would leave. When you see so many strong opinions, it reflects very strong support for the club (not necessarily current or past leadership).

Hope this helps.

Matt

[mistral blue]

August 26, 2008

Jerry Larson, International President, WBCCI


Subject: Region 1 President, Robert Thompson

Dear Mr. Larson:

I write to you hoping that perhaps you see an opportunity here and can make a positive difference in the future of the WBCCI.

I recently became aware that Mr. Robert Thompson and his wife Harriet were suspended from the WBCCI for one year at the Region 1 Rally they hosted. As I'm sure you are aware, Bob and Harriet have been loyal and enthusiastic members for well over 30 years now. You also must know that suspending a member is a very serious affair and I'm sure that the entire leadership of the WBCCI firmly believes in the QUALITY of the process that is due to Mr. Thompson.

The opportunity I refer to however: the great leap forward that needs to be seized here is for the International leadership of the WBCCI to start taking more steps toward Accountability and Transparency. Due process is vital to the health of our club and I hope that you agree with me that the membership deserves to see that process.

I therefore respectfully request a copy of the original complaint against Mr. Robert Thompson.

~ What specific acts of misconduct, with all relevant dates, times and places form the basis of the complaint?

~ What section or sections of the WBCCI Constitution, Bylaws, Policy or Code of Ethics is he alleged to have violated?

~ Who testified at Mr. Thompson's hearing?

~ What documents or other evidence were considered by the Ethics and Grievance Committee?

~ What specific Findings of Fact did the Ethics and Grievance Committee reduce to writing after their investigation and what was their recommendation to the Executive Committee?

~ The Executive Committee apparently resolved to suspend Mr. Thompson. Did they affirm, overrule or modify the Ethics and Grievance Committee recommendation in any way?

A new day will dawn President Larson. A healthy dose of sunshine is the prescription that our members and true Leaders know will succeed. Can you lend us a hand and lead us forward?

Sincerely,
Don Collimore, #5399

Cc: Airforums.com

[Janet H]

Moderator note: We have removed Mr Larsons e-mail address from several posts in this thread. Posting e-mail addresses online opens the account to spam and we generally remove this kind of info as we find it.

If you need the address in question, you can find in in the WBCCI member book under Jerry Larson or PM one of several posters on this thread.

Thanks for understanding.

[RedSHED]

Let's back up a step.
The purposes of the WB' are (or ought to be) not in order:
1) to promote caravans
2) to promote rallys
3) to facilitate local and regional clubs/units and encourage them to engage in #1 and #2 separately and in conjunction with each other.
And these 3 focussed on Airstreams.

The further they stray from these, the greater will their problems be.

We're fairly happy with our local unit, but whenever I read those comments from a president about keeping out undesirable elements I wonder if they mean me.

But as to the subject of this thread, I would very much like to hear another side to the story, but am beginning to lose hope of it.

[87MH]

[quote=Bambi_Bandit;607928]...a few days ago I posted my reply on the "save wally" forum, suggesting that WBCCI members supporting change to identify themselves by flipping our numbers upside down...quote]

III3
---------------------------------
III3

[Byteman]

But as to the subject of this thread, I would very much like to hear another side to the story, but am beginning to lose hope of it.


I feel the same way. Here a long time supporter/contributor to the club.. in his love of the club.. delivers an emotional plea in the interests of strengthening our collective goals and he is "taken out". What does the membership know of this? Nothing? but what we hear on this forum (which too is marginalized for it's concern regarding this matter).

Coming from the leadership we have heard not a word. As if it is no one person's concern but their own. My unit is grappling with a leader who is potentially subject to the same fate. I know this, because the gentlemen stepped forward and brought this situation to the unit's attention. I can only admire that kind of courage. Additionally, in today's day and age, one is guilty until proven innocent by mere allegation. There IS a case to be heard but the accuser is silent and does not FACE his target as AMERICAN justice would demand. Once again an ANTI-AMERICAN stance.

As I was contemplating this whole mess, it occured to me......... How dare they yank a friend, elected leader and fellow airstreamer from our group!~ To top it all off, NO ONE being made aware of it in any way what so ever as to how or why AND the group having no part in the process!~

In conclusion, what you want to hear is the other side, but apparently this is not a dialogue

[dufferin]

I found that on savewally.org forum and I think it is the best way to see how the club is driven when it is time to take decision against a real insult.

Let know what your thought are !!!

I'll go for it :
Date: __________
Attention: Cindy Reed, Corporate Manager
WBCCI Headquarters
P.O. Box 612
Jackson Center, OH 45334

Code of Ethics Complaint

Dear WBCCI President Jerry Larson,

I, (enter name & membership number here), being a member in good standing in the (enter name of Unit here) and of the greater WBCCI seek to register a complaint against WBCCI Past President Jim Franklin, member number 143, (hereinafter referred to as the accused member), alleging that the accused has violated the WBCCI BYLAWS, ARTICLE VIII, CODE OF ETHICS, Sec. 1, which states that, “All members shall abide by the following Code of Ethics:… B. To be ever mindful of what we say or print with respect to the effect on others so as to avoid disharmony and ill feelings among club members and to dedicate ourselves to the work of cementing together the members of WBCCI in bonds of good fellowship and mutual understanding.”

The accused violated WBCCI Bylaw, Article VIII, Code of Ethics, Section 1, B. at the IBT Seminar in Bozeman, Montana, on June 24, 2008 when he publicly made an inflammatory, derogatory, threatening, divisive and condescending comment that has in turn created disharmony and ill feeling among many club members. It has also had a detrimental impact on the bonds of good fellowship and mutual understanding. His public comments follows and is transcribed from the actual proceedings (the specific comments that are in violation of the Code of Ethics are in bold):

“Jim Franklin, Arizona Unit. I think Mr. Carson has touched upon a problem this club has been struggling with for quite a while. People on the AirstreamForum, people on the blog - ah, they seem to be unhappy being members.”
“They have driven away more members than what many of our membership crew have been able to obtain. And I think that ah, the solutions that region presidents and unit members need to look at - we need to think about ah, quality instead of quantity.”
“And ah, of course everyone has freedom of speech and we respect that.”
“But people that continually tear down the club, or attack the executive board and the membership and ah, if they have something constructive to have, ah, to do, I think that the board will certainly listen to it.”
“But people that are continually tearing down the club and being destructive, and they're unhappy. I think we need to be selective in our memberships and start looking at a way of terminating their membership and let them go find a place that they are happy.”

Clearly, the statement by the accused has been and continues to be upsetting to me and to my fellow members because it suggests that membership in the Club should be exclusive, instead of inclusive, and that steps should be taken to remove members seen as being “unhappy.” It speculates that such members are driving away membership when no such demographic can be documented that correlates Airforum membership with WBCCI membership. While it might be argued that Airforum members “continually tear down the club” it is not at all clear that such Airforum members are also WBCCI members. In fact, many WBCCI members participating in the Airforum have repeatedly defended the WBCCI as a worthy club and it is patently unfair to suggest they are unwanted or unworthy members.

Such an insulting, insensitive comment by a person in a position of leadership cannot and should not be ignored or tolerated, and I ask that the accused be “expelled from membership in the club or that such member be suspended from membership” should such violation be substantiated in accordance with WBCCI ARTICLE V, DISCIPLINARY PROCEDURES.

Sincerely,

(Print and sign name here)

[henw]

Anyone who takes an essentially volunteer leadership position, should be given respect for their commitment and efforts. Lots of folks have opinions they are willing to voice, but, few will step up to the plate and do the actual work. This is true of any organization, and, people in general. If you disagree with the actions of the WBCCI, please do so in a civil and constructive fashion. Frustrations expressed through emotion laded text only alienate folks. Calm, and reasonable vision is what ganders support. The internet is much like driving a car. Easy to blow your horn, gesture, and then drive on down the road falsely thinking you made some sort of difference.
Points are better made in positively showing where an organization might have taken a better direction. Calling others failures and accusing them of striking out because you happen disagree with them is taking the lesser road.

Tom

[moosetags]

We sent an email to WBCCI President Jerry Larson yesterday expressing our displeasure with the suspension of Bob Thompson.

This morning we received the following response from Jerry Larson:

For SuEllyn and Brian,

I'm not sure why you are disappointed in the IBT over this situation as they
were not involved. But, thank you for your inputs. I look forward to working
together with you and all members of the Club with their varied opinions.
Together we can solve anything.

Give someone a hug today, Jerry

Jerry Larson is apparently looking at his emails. We are pleased with this timely response.

[eubank]

Yes, Jerry Larson also answered my email this morning. He's certainly interested.

Lynn

[hampstead38]

In our small town, the local Rotary ran out of steam a few years ago. After 80 years of service, the Woman's Club folded this year. This same phenomena is happening everywhere. It's easy to dismiss this by saying younger generations just aren't interested, but the situation is more complex than that. Older social or civic organization are often run by older people, sometimes folks who have been in the Lion's Club or Optimists or whatever for decades. I've seen younger members come into these organizations and become frustrated because they encounter a "this is the way we've always done it" mentality. I don't know anything about WBCCI, but I have seen this same dynamic play out in places from local governments to churches to fraternal orders. When someone starts beating someone else over the head with a rule book, you know things are winding down

The reason the Air Forums work is that this is a 21st century model of social networking and organization. The organization is open. The rules are fairly simple. What happens here doesn't depend on leadership or rule books... it depends on the willingness for one person to help another. Communication is dynamic and in real time. Users can change the organization to better suit their needs in an ad hoc, informal way. The flat system allows people to come and go freely while minimizing the loss to the whole. The forums don't grind to a halt because the person who always scheduled the campground is out for medical reasons.

Our local Rotary and Woman's Club were full of great people. Wonderful, hardworking dedicated residents who really contributed to the community. The problem, however, is that the world changed far faster than their organizations. The more bureaucratic, the more rigid, the more rulebound an organization, the faster it become irrelevant in a rapidly evolving culture. The organizations that thrive are those that allow members to "reinvent" the organization repeatedly. Success is not about better rules; it's about fewer rules. Retention is not about better leaders; it's about empowering members. People are just as willing to network and "join" as ever... how they do it, though, is changing every day.