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Old 10-20-2008, 09:51 PM   #351
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Are you sure the 3rd case is related?
Related to what? The 3rd case certainly went through the Ethics and Grievance Committee and was acted upon by the Executive Committee; to that extent it was "related". Beyond that, we don't know.

I don't think the Ethics and Grievance committee has had anything to do for years, so the sudden flurry of grievances is noteworthy in itself.

In his memo regarding the Bob Thompson and Leo Garvey disciplinary actions (which can be viewed over on the WBCCI forums), Mr. Larson mentioned a third disciplinary action which had been settled "to the satisfaction of all parties", or words to that effect. Only recently did it come to light (over on the Save Wally forum) that a couple from Region 3 had been expelled. Apparently they were satisfied with being expelled.
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Old 10-20-2008, 10:07 PM   #352
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Related to what? The 3rd case certainly went through the Ethics and Grievance Committee and was acted upon by the Executive Committee; to that extent it was "related". Beyond that, we don't know.

I don't think the Ethics and Grievance committee has had anything to do for years, so the sudden flurry of grievances is noteworthy in itself.

In his memo regarding the Bob Thompson and Leo Garvey disciplinary actions (which can be viewed over on the WBCCI forums), Mr. Larson mentioned a third disciplinary action which had been settled "to the satisfaction of all parties", or words to that effect. Only recently did it come to light (over on the Save Wally forum) that a couple from Region 3 had been expelled. Apparently they were satisfied with being expelled.
Not that many years, I was informed by Mr. Larson that several members received probation (whatever that is) for offenses at the Salem International.

Bill
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Old 10-20-2008, 10:22 PM   #353
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I was informed by Mr. Larson that several members received probation (whatever that is) for offenses at the Salem International.

Bill
Curiouser and curiouser...probation offenses at a rally Beyond the special brand of WBCCI legalese what really does this all mean in reality? This club is intense. Kind of s c a r y hidden under the beret and packaged appearingly as fun.
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Old 10-20-2008, 10:27 PM   #354
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... This club is intense.
For half a second I read that as "in tents."

I can't imagine that anyone's happy with the way things are turning out.

However, what if the guy who started all the grievance filing gave himself one for making the club look bad. We could all have a laugh, burn some tuxes over a fire, and put it behind us.
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:11 AM   #355
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I was informed by Mr. Larson that several members received probation (whatever that is) for offenses at the Salem International.
Sorry to hear that. How sad. Another good reason not to go to Internationals, I guess.
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:25 AM   #356
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What's next, double secret probation?
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:42 PM   #357
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Quote:
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...I was informed by Mr. Larson that several members received probation (whatever that is) for offenses at the Salem International.
Wow, that's a way to encourage folks to drop out next time dues are due!
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Old 10-21-2008, 01:01 PM   #358
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The next thing we will be seeing is a Police Blotter in the Blue Beret list members along with their infractions.
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Old 10-21-2008, 02:00 PM   #359
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OK, I'll quit wasting your bandwidth,Mike...
Never meant to hurt anybody's feelings. ::::note to self, refrain from horning in on threads that seem to have a biased opinion:::::
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:10 PM   #360
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Sorry if I'm not paying adequate attention here. . . who's the "Jerry" you are referring to?

Updating all that I know of,

Jerry Larson is still International President of WBCCI.

Region 1 President (now Immediate Past President) Bob Thompson was suspended by the Executive Committee upon recommendation of the Ethics and Grievance Committee but the suspension was recently overturned by the Appeals Board.

The grievance against New York Metro Unit President Leo Garvey is still in process.

We are informed that a third member from Region 3 was expelled, but know no further details.

So those of who are concerned about the recent spate of disciplinary actions are still waiting to hear Leo Garvey's fate.
OK, see how far it has gone...I have lost track of who the players in this tragic saga are.

Guess I'd better take more ginseng or stay better awake at the key board.
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:32 PM   #361
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It just seems to get worse. To say what is sometimes obvious, it takes adversity to reform an organization. Transparency and clear standards are called for when an organization disciplines one of its own and it seems humans are usually quite at that.

I really would like to see an Airstream organization that I would want to join and I guess I did when I joined the Forum. Seems quite sad the way this is working out.

I'll stop using bandwidth with my biased opinions. Wait, aren't all "opinions" biased?

Gene
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:45 PM   #362
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I'll stop using bandwidth with my biased opinions. Wait, aren't all "opinions" biased?
I thought of that d.s. comment after it was too late, like this thread.
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Old 10-21-2008, 04:53 PM   #363
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What's next, double secret probation?
You'd have to ask Dean Wormer about that
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Old 10-24-2008, 09:06 PM   #364
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From the WBCCI, This may be of interest to you

WBCCI Forum / Leadership / A time to change loginjoinsearch
Reply to Discussion | New Discussion | Subscribe next >> Posted ByDiscussion Topic: A time to change
hutch309.2 10-24-2008 @ 8:32 PM reply profileNew Member
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My long awaited response from the Executive Committee was answered by Tom Collier, Int'l 1st Vice President. Somewhat encouraging news I think. Lets hope that this is a start in the right direction

Mr. Hutchinson,

I am not sure if anyone has addressed your email dated 9-26-08. If not I
will try to answer your questions as best I can. I have been on the road
and had little to no internet service.

I agree with your statements for the most part, although some of your
questions were not correct or I was not clear as to what you were
referring I will take your questions as you listed them.


"Will there be a reduction in signed contracts to bring expenses in line
with revenue?"

This is a little misleading because the International Rally is not part of
the club budget. As with all rallies they stand alone and set their budget
for the current International and has nothing to do with the general budget
of which you refer. This separate rally budget is often not understood
by even members that have been in the club for many years.

I know that the contracts for Madison and my rally in Gillette have already
been signed. Most International rally location contract are signed 2-3
years before the rally. This is necessary because the large facilities work
that far out and some like Gillette are already working with contracts for
2012. Most contracts, but not all, are written so we pay for only the
number of Airstreams that attend and set the budget to the expected number
that we feel will be at the rallies.

"International does not have the support of all of the membership yet they
continue with extravagant and expensive International rallies. The
1. attendance at Madison was down around 850, which broke the previous
recordof 936 at Rapid City. I see this trend continuing with less and less
people attending.. What steps have been taken for 2010 in regards to
expenses for that rally, or is it "business as usual" ".

I agree with you that some of the things at International need to be
reviewed or eliminated, but not all. We have never had the complete
support of all the members, and most likely never will but we try to meet the
needs and likes of the majority of our members who attend the rallies.
I think you meant Bozeman, as we have not been to Madison yet.

My rally in 2010 will be less expensive, as I am planning on reducing some
of the events with the intention of controlling expenses. Again the
International is not part of the general budget, so any savings at the
rallies will not affect the deficit of the current club budget.

I do not want to increase annual dues, although at some point we will have
to. Anytime we have a dues increase we always loose a higher percentage
of members than normal. The more members we can gain and retain, the longer
the club can operate without raising dues. It all goes back to membership.
1. Reduce the staff at Headquarters. This is a hard one. Since we will be
dealing with the livelihood of families, we have to consider any reduction
of staff very carefully. As the club gets smaller we should be able to
reduce staff without affecting the services the members expect and want
through normal attrition. Being in the Jackson Center offices many time
in the last few years, I see how busy our current staff is. If we lose one
of the three workers in the office, if someone is out sick and the other
possibly on vacation this would leave only one to run the complete
office.This could be at a time when either the Blue Beret or membership
directory is being assembled and edited which could not be handled by only one.
In the past we had a lot of volunteers that would come by for a few days and
work in the office to help out. Unfortunately this is not happening now.
Please ask your members to help out if possible.

2. Drastically reduce Committees I am not sure which committees you are
talking about. Is it the standing committees or rally committees? The
standing committees which meet during the year have small expense accounts
that are part of the club budget, but very seldom use all of the budgeted
dollars. Over the past several years, that has been only a small percentage
of budgeted dollars.

If you are talking about the rally chairman, they use very little of
their small budget as most spend nothing for their committee at the rallies or
very little. This again is not the general club budget but the International rally budget.

3. Eliminate International 3rd Vice President
4. Eliminate Region 2nd Vice Presidents
5. Change Regions from 12 to 6. I am grouping these three together and
answering them together. The Int. 3rd VP is a very important VP at the
International Rally. He is in charge of everything that happens outside and
some committees inside. He is responsible for the setup of the parking,
electric, water, trams, trash collecting, engineering, and many other
necessary behind the scenes jobs. Locating and negotiating International
sites also can take a lot of the VP's time which sometimes takes the
entire three years. I am not in favor of eliminating this VP. The Region 2nd
VP, depending on the region, could possible be eliminated, although it
would not save a lot because either the Region President or the 1st VP would be
traveling more to cover the region. It would only reduce the time of the
region officer from 6 to 4 years, not 3. Each position is for two years.

Reducing the number of Region's and VP's was presented to the membership in
2004-05 and was totally rejected. With our current budget, perhaps the same
thoughts need to be presented again and see where it goes. I have mixed
thoughts on this some pro and some con.

6. Promote Rallies more effectively in the Blue Beret. I totally agree with
this. We should be using the BB more for the promotion of rallies and
member services. I will be encouraging units and regions to promote their
events and also using the BB to inform our new members what is available
to them as benefits.
7. Eliminated unnecessary travel promoting Regions & International
Rallies.I also agree with this. I will be assigning the 2010 International
officers so their travel distance will be less, and I am also going to look at
possibly eliminating some of the functions we attend. I still want to cover
all the Region Rallies, unfortunately some of the Special Events and
National Rallies may need to be cut from the schedule. It will depend on
the number of members that register for the rally. I am also going to
encourage each Region to closely monitor the officer travel miles. This
will only affect the budget at the close of the year, as the travel dollar
is set by policy in the Blue Book.

8. Change the format on WBCCI.org promoting rallies. Delete past months
rallies. I was not sure what you meant on this one. We do need to promote
the rallies more and definitely need to delete old ads and news from the web
site.

In the last paragraph you listed a total number of employees. The only
employees of WBCCI are the four women in the office at Jackson Center.
The others are all volunteers and only get reimbursed the travel expense up
tothe amount listed in the Blue Book policy for each office.
Lastly I am not in favor of raising dues at this time, neither am I in
favor of rescinding the At-Large dues increase nor changing their voting
status.

I know we may not agree on some of the items you listed, but I do sincerely
thank you for your concerns for WBCCI. We are all in this together and
with cool heads and reasoning we will continue to make this the greatest RV
club anywhere.
Tom Collier, International 1st VP


This is my reply to some of Tom's questions

Executive Committee
Tom Collier, 1st Vice President
Dear Tom:

I am very pleased that you have responded to my e-mail of 9-26-09 and the
answer to your first question is no, you are the only one.While it is
disappointing that more have not taken up the challenge, I'm grateful to be
able to communicate with someone from the Executive Committee. One of these
days we may get wireless Internet as we travel across North America. The
purpose of my proposal was to stimulate action and dialogue between members
and the EC and to move this fine RV club into growth and survival.
Dissension is not healthy.

I realize that International, Region and Unit rallies have to be
self-supporting but when there is a shortfall, money to pay the bills has
to come from somewhere whether you call it general budget or rally budget. I
realize it takes 2 -3 years of advance planning and my only concern is the
cost of those commitment could be a burden should projected estimates fall
short of expectation. I will reluctantly agree that the 3rd Int'l is vital
for advance planning, but we must reduce our operation expenses to coincide
with membership loss.

Corporation are cutting expenses and work force to survive, so must we .I'm
not sure we need 18 Standing Committee chairpersons. I'm sure the staff at
Jackson Center could be reduced by one, after all, membership is down.
Hire High school help for peak times.

With the reduction of 12 Regions to 6, it was my intent to have them serve
only one year in each office. In these economic times, travel may have to
be cut way back.
On wbcci..org site under Rallies, I'm referring to rallies that took place
months ago and I don't see any advantage to keep them on the site, just my
opinion.

Thanks again Tom for your comments, while we don't agree on some things,
there should be room for compromise on both side of an opinion. Posting on wbcci.org & Savewally.org
Best regards, James H.
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