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Old 10-13-2008, 10:04 AM   #323
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What came out of it all was the feeling, on my part, that the system worked – albeit slowly. The grievance was overturned and the action of creating a grievance out of a lively debate has pretty well backfired on the grievers.

In a way this all has been a good thing since this event has brought focus to a range of problems in the club.

In a real sense this has been a pivotal wakeup call to the club.
I hope you're right. I too have talked with many people about this (including my region officers) and the majority of them think the plan to "rid the club of malcontents" via the grievance process was a big mistake.

I guess we will find out soon enough by seeing what happens with Leo. If the International folks have gotten the message, I expect that the grievance against him will be dismissed. If not, then I guess "the game is on again". Lord, I hope not. With the economy going down the tubes WBCCI is going to be facing enough problems without a civil war on top of them.
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Old 10-13-2008, 11:23 AM   #324
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Cowboy wisdom? Sounds like you're mostly speaking French here, circa 1940. I'm sure you've just insulted real cowboys everywhere...

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Old 10-13-2008, 06:28 PM   #325
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I'm not sure the powers that be can dismiss a grievance, once filed and brought forward from the grievance committee. I think it requires the complaint be dropped, once the particulars determined valid as grounds for grievance. Otherwise, it moves forward.

I'm completely unaware of the particulars or the stage this one may be in. Patience may be needed...again.
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Old 10-13-2008, 06:37 PM   #326
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That's incorrect; it must be filed in accordance with certain parameters.

If not its dismissal is pro forma.

As one example, a grievance filed beyond 30 days of an alleged infraction is invalid on its face.

J Larson dismissed one on those grounds in July or August.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:48 PM   #327
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RUMSHIP, DiggerBear, and Jimmini,
I think you have it right. The Club process did work and Bob and Harriet are back.

As for the pissers and moaners? If they don't like it then they need to leave. Do quitters really need so much attention? And let those of us who want to belong continue to have an organization in which we are willing to invest our time, energy, and dues. Without the quitters sabotaging the Club we are trying to improve and sustain. Our Club isn't perfect, but complaining doesn't improve it. Do something constructive or just leave. And for those who never belonged, how can you fairly judge?

Proud to belong and contribute!
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:08 PM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
I hope you're right. I too have talked with many people about this (including my region officers) and the majority of them think the plan to "rid the club of malcontents" via the grievance process was a big mistake.

I guess we will find out soon enough by seeing what happens with Leo. If the International folks have gotten the message, I expect that the grievance against him will be dismissed. If not, then I guess "the game is on again". Lord, I hope not. With the economy going down the tubes WBCCI is going to be facing enough problems without a civil war on top of them.
Again its all about reducing the amount of wind for the sails that some want to fill.
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Old 10-13-2008, 09:25 PM   #329
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RUMSHIP, DiggerBear, and Jimmini,
I think you have it right. The Club process did work and Bob and Harriet are back.

As for the pissers and moaners? If they don't like it then they need to leave. Do quitters really need so much attention? And let those of us who want to belong continue to have an organization in which we are willing to invest our time, energy, and dues. Without the quitters sabotaging the Club we are trying to improve and sustain. Our Club isn't perfect, but complaining doesn't improve it. Do something constructive or just leave. And for those who never belonged, how can you fairly judge?

Proud to belong and contribute!
Well said, to bad some don't get it.
"Ya can tell a real winner by the way he plays a losin hand"
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Old 10-13-2008, 09:44 PM   #330
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I'm not sure the powers that be can dismiss a grievance, once filed and brought forward from the grievance committee. I think it requires the complaint be dropped, once the particulars determined valid as grounds for grievance. Otherwise, it moves forward.
Go read Article V of the bylaws (on the WBCCI web site). The Ethics and Grievance Committee hears the case and makes a recommendation to the International Executive Committee. The Executive Committee can then do whatever they want with it. It's the Executive Committee (the 7 International officers) who make the call.
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Old 10-13-2008, 09:59 PM   #331
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Wally Byam Code of Ethics which includes “To be ever mindful of what we say or print with respect to the effect on others so as to avoid disharmony and ill feelings among club members”.

Sincerely

Always great to hear that there is a FAIR process that keeps the club in check - or any organization for that matter.

But least we forget how people may get into hot water in the first place.

Yes timing stank I will admit. I certainly do not claim to know all the ins and outs either.

But I have read one heck of a lot of words that border abusing the above code of ethic..... (to include myself at times during the name change and MOHO issues)

This is not about Roberts Rule, or law and order, or any of the other things people are not happy with as such - this is just plain and simple respect for the people who hold office at any given time and for fellow members.

I believe all people are nice and mean well, but there is a time and a place for everything and a manner in which we write and express our gratitude and our dissatisfaction. For every action there is a reaction.

Sometimes in the heat of the moment or from simple frustration we just don't take the time "to respect the effect" of our words "on others" - regardless of the position we have held or the hard work we have put into a club or organization we feel passionate about, nor how nice we are as individuals.

When I read the reinstatement letter that was posted here, it was very clear to me that the message was sent with the above code of ethic attached as a "heavy" reminder - to which all WBCCI members are encouraged to abide.

The initial letter, from a member who holds office I remember not of the valid message or points being put forth and addressed, but of the manner it may have been received if I had read it not knowing the person from adam (which I don't) and how it would make me feel if I were in the shoes of another or even holding office and being addressed by a fellow officer/member.

JMHO.....and just one member who after this unfortunate incident will think twice about what and how I write to and about the club I am a member of.
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:13 AM   #332
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I remember talking with Leo about this a long time ago before he started Save Wally (correct me if I'm wrong on this, Leo)....the real heart of all of this discontent stems from the fact that, when Wally and friends started the Wally Byam Caravan Club International, the whole point was to have fun, see as much of the world as possible and spread goodwill. What it's turned into is, for lack of a better word, a corporation. It's lost its down-to-earth feel. The K.I.S.S. principle no longer seems to apply to the WBCCI.

The "mal-contents" just want to belong to a club where they can be amongst friends and not worry about voting to do this or that and follow procedure to do it.

I've been in the Army for almost 18 years now. I follow orders on a daily basis. When I am relaxing on my time off, I don't want to follow anyone's orders but the wife and kids. I also want to enjoy the company of my friends who share my same common interests.

I wish the WBCCI well and hope that things do change.
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:49 PM   #333
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The "mal-contents" just want to belong to a club where they can be amongst friends and not worry about voting to do this or that and follow procedure to do it.
Well-said, Frederic! If you look around at the popularity of the AirForums rallies, you will understand why so many folks just don't bother with joining WBCCI.

We have owned our Airstream since 2004, and we joined this year for the first time....in hope that change might happen and to continue on the Wally Byam tradition. Yes, there are more rules than I care to think about, but we joined one of the more "laid back" units....hopefully, that won't be an issue.
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Old 10-14-2008, 04:09 PM   #334
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RUMSHIP, DiggerBear, and Jimmini,
I think you have it right. The Club process did work and Bob and Harriet are back.

As for the pissers and moaners? If they don't like it then they need to leave. Do quitters really need so much attention? And let those of us who want to belong continue to have an organization in which we are willing to invest our time, energy, and dues. Without the quitters sabotaging the Club we are trying to improve and sustain. Our Club isn't perfect, but complaining doesn't improve it. Do something constructive or just leave. And for those who never belonged, how can you fairly judge?

Proud to belong and contribute!

I would like to nominate you to be an International officer, clearly you have the same stuff they do.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:53 AM   #335
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Off Track

I can honestly say that this thread has gotten off track. I can also report that Bob and his wonderful wife are greatful for a wrong to be made right. I can also say that the actions that resolved the issue were not the pissing and moaning here on the forum, but the help of fellow New England Unit members coming to the aid of Bob and Harriett and filing the proper letters in time for a complete review of the actions taken against him. I am sure that everyone is happy of the positive outcome of all of this and that lessons were learned by all involved. I, along with my fellow unit members look forward to another season of camping with the Thompsons.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:14 AM   #336
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The time to piss and moan has passed.

This is the time for logical planning and execution of an agenda that truly leads our club from the bottom up.

We have discussed at length the changes we feel would make our club relevent and more member friendly.

Now is the time to focus on that. Pissing and moaning won't save the club. Action to change the future will.
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