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Old 09-22-2008, 08:58 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by JerryMcMunn View Post
Greetings,

I admit that I have not been following this thread closely but I have read the first and several other posts. That said, why is this seemingly negative topic receiving such attention? How is this topic relevant to the masses?

Thanks,

Jerry
The issues involved are such principles as freedom of speech and whether or not the WBCCI is even remotely democratic, i.e., do "mere members" who, after all, pay the bills and do the work at the Unit level, have any voice in the running of the club?

Whether such issues are of concern to "the masses", I can't say. But they seem to be a matter of concern to many of us WBCCI members.
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:34 PM   #268
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Mike makes the point about how not to win friends and influence people. Sorry - but if you flame someone who is obviously playing unfairly, then you are painted with the same brush. No matter whether you have right on your side.

Pat
I didn't take either post as a flame or anyone playing unfairly. What obviousness I'm I missing here?
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:38 PM   #269
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The issues involved are such principles as freedom of speech and whether or not the WBCCI is even remotely democratic, i.e., do "mere members" who, after all, pay the bills and do the work at the Unit level, have any voice in the running of the club?

Whether such issues are of concern to "the masses", I can't say. But they seem to be a matter of concern to many of us WBCCI members.
Hello again,

Thanks for the explanation. I respect the contributions the club has made over the years and the members but for a long time I have kept hearing about much conflict surrounding the club. It seems that many are dissatisfied and many other AS owners choose to not join.

The question that comes to mind has to do with the relevance of the club in the 21st century. I'm seriously wondering if the membership model was more suited to prior times and might thrive better under a more modern model such as the this Internet based one.

As I said, I have a lack of detailed historical information on this topic but I did attend an AIR Forum Rally and enjoyed the experience as did, seemingly, everyone else. People seemed pleased at the lack of formality and the emphasis on fun. If my wife and I decide we want to continue being involved in Rallys, I'm sure we will volunteer to do some of the work.

So, in summary, I'm wondering if the root cause of the conflict may be the membership model rather than the individuals. In advance, I appreciate anyone's effort to educate me and to comment on my thoughts.

Regards,

Jerry
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:08 PM   #270
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if you flame someone who is obviously playing unfairly
You get it off your chest and move on down the road.
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:27 PM   #271
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You get it off your chest and move on down the road.

Ok, you guys are just trying to confuse me more. I am missing this whole little subtheme. Who got flamed.... Rich did you get flamed or are you the flamer? Help me out here someone. Who got flamed and why is Mike watching a soap opera? And while you are at it can someone explain that lipstick on a pig thing to me. Because I just don't get what it has to do with Soccer. Have to go, Cramer is predicting the end of the world and I don't what to miss that.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:17 AM   #272
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Ok, you guys are just trying to confuse me more. I am missing this whole little subtheme. Who got flamed.... Rich did you get flamed or are you the flamer? Help me out here someone. Who got flamed and why is Mike watching a soap opera? And while you are at it can someone explain that lipstick on a pig thing to me. Because I just don't get what it has to do with Soccer. Have to go, Cramer is predicting the end of the world and I don't what to miss that.
OK... the train left the station while you were still reading the paper. The flaming issue is relating to the fact that when some of my forum posts were brought up in the interview for R12VP I responded politly; did not flame back at them. As for lipstick on pigs and soccer games I have no idea what is going on.
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:06 AM   #273
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You know, the savewally.org website started out of an idea. I had not been there in a while until today and saw the many posts on this single subject alone. Lots of great info from a number of folks I truly respect, many forum members here.

All I can tell from the postings and Bob's retort to his banishment from the kingdom is that sadly, this club is now a ticking time bomb. It was always clear to me that it was a matter of if not when the overall .org was going to fail. I just didn't think they'd give themselves a self inflicted gunshot wound to the head followed by a lobotomy as a course of action to fix the self inflicted gunshot wound.

Let's for a moment recap a few of the leadership's actions and spearheads:

1) Change the name of the .org
2) Allow non-Airstreams into the club (mostly due to a lack of Class As made by Airstream)

Folks, these two alone (though there have been more examples than these) are basic fundamental change attempts that clearly the majority didn't want. Can you say simply out of touch and self serving?

As I said before, it was never a question in my mind that the overall club (not some individual units) would collapse. The recent actions against some simply reinforces this belief.

I'd say do what we plan on doing in November, but frankly do you really think a .org like this, with such leadership wouldn't skew any attempt to vote them out? In the end, are we really shocked by their actions given what they have consistently done to date?

The handwriting has been on the wall for years, yet many seem to drink from the kool aid and are blinded by the dream of what the .org once was, and those folks for years put down the naysayers in a variety of ways.

I'm here to tell ya, the party is over unless you get rid of your current leadership. Though I may not be the youngest generation, I have been Airstreaming now for 6 years...I was in my very early 30s when I started Airstreamin, and frankly, even though I don't speak for the 30 somethings out here, I can't see anyone in my position wanting to join something like this or even try to get in to fix it....look what happened to Bob when he tried......

We should all just start a new club and let the cranky current leadership of the WBCCI run the plane right into the ground. This forum would be a great place to launch such an org.
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Old 09-23-2008, 09:51 AM   #274
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Having been so involved with Airstream, Airstream Life, and the WBCCI I would just hate to see the club crash and burn. True, it can not survive in the current state. There is just too much going on and it seems as if there is a lynching mob on the loose. Can any of this be repaired? I believe so but the IBT is in a position of being backed into a corner and they are reacting possibly the only way they know. Sure they are blaming the membership and the membership is blaming them. No matter what, I don't see this conflict ending any time soon. If the IBT really wanted to save the WBCCI they would immediatly solicit members to join an adhok committee to review the current feelings all around. The biggest mistake IBT is making right now is stating that there is not a problem. I really feel sorry for whoever is International President when the WBCCI breathes its last breath.
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:11 PM   #275
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So, in summary, I'm wondering if the root cause of the conflict may be the membership model rather than the individuals. In advance, I appreciate anyone's effort to educate me and to comment on my thoughts.
This question has been discussed at great length on these forums. Rather than "reinvent the wheel", here are two recent threads on the topic that you can peruse.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...lub-43687.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...sal-44741.html

I would suggest posting any comments or questions on one of these threads as they are more oriented toward your question.

Best regards,
Nuvi
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:24 PM   #276
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Having been so involved with Airstream, Airstream Life, and the WBCCI I would just hate to see the club crash and burn. True, it can not survive in the current state.
Is the situation really that dire? Being in Region 1 and the NEU maybe you are in a better position than I to know the true situation.

What I do see is that "business as usual" seems to have come to an end. I do not view this as an entirely bad thing. The club has been slowly dying for the past 20 years or more with no more than comment from the upper management. In human affairs it usually takes a crisis to bring change.

What do you see as the likely immediate outcome of the current and pending disciplinary actions against Bob Thompson (Region 1 immediate past president) and Leo Garvey (New York Metro Unit president)? Some possibilities that I foresee include a considerable number of membership non-renewals this fall, maybe a "Friends of Bob" counter-rally at Madison next year, and maybe even legal action on the part of one or more of the affected parties.

The point is that any of these would be bad for the WBCCI but would not be immediately fatal. Hopefully they would serve as a "wake up call" to the International executive committee. Even more hopefully, this can all be avoided if Bob Thompson's suspension is overturned on appeal and the Ethics and Grievance Committee decides not to take action on the grievance against Leo Garvey.

From your perspective over in Region 1, is the situation worse than that? Maybe the whole NEU is going to secede from the WBCCI? An intriguing idea, actually--I suspect that most successful WBCCI units would be viable as independent entities.

See you down the road,
Nuvi
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Old 09-23-2008, 03:37 PM   #277
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Nuvi- I don't want to be seen as the gloom dealer, but the writing is on the wall. Put aside the issues facing Bob and Leo. While new members will be joining those who have been around for a little while are getting pretty tired of all the politics and specializim (is there such a word?) of those who are higher up. The IBT and certain other members have raised themselves above the general member as it were forgetting that they too were once a unit member. You are hearing more and more, we are a camping club. While I do like many of the traditions of the club and love its history it is the history of the club and what has brought us all together that has been forgotten. I hope I am wrong, but I just can't see any organization surviving today under the current structure and feelings now within this great club. I will remain a member and enjoy my unit.
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:53 PM   #278
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...I do like many of the traditions of the club and love its history it is the history of the club and what has brought us all together that has been forgotten. ...
This is why I joined the WBCCI and why I have renewed my membership the last two years. However, it is disheartening to hear the same issues continue to plague the club by its leadership. You would think that the IBT would get the message by now that the times are a changing and I don't mean that sarcastically. The club doesn't have to give up all traditions to move forward.
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:03 PM   #279
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You would think that the IBT would get the message by now that the times are a changing and I don't mean that sarcastically. The club doesn't have to give up all traditions to move forward.
It certainly would help get the message across how widespread and significant the desire for changes is if they would only mingle and park and rally dispersed in the sections for the general membership. They could hear first hand the experiences and suggestions of others. Isolated at special invitation only events and parked amongst themselves with a direct jaunt inside to the buildings, then in special seating, I don't think they have much opportunity to hear from members but instead assign committees to deal with the public and bring back a synopsis.

They have heard but they disbelieve the scope and think it is only a small minority that wants change. Buffered in their clique, all is good and mutual admiration runs high as does satisfaction.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:09 PM   #280
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Maybe the whole NEU is going to secede from the WBCCI? An intriguing idea, actually--I suspect that most successful WBCCI units would be viable as independent entities.

See you down the road,
Nuvi
NO: Even though there have been rumors about this for a couple of years which have been spread mostly by folks who are not NEU members our unit has no plans to secede from the WBCCI.

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