Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-29-2008, 07:01 AM   #183
2 Rivet Member
 
1992 34' Excella
riverhead , New York
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 72
Arrogance and Frustration

Forrest,
I beleive that they may have had a plan to control this situation fueled by Arrogance. I think they did not expect the outcry and support from the membership for Leo and Bob.

Military types are used to having control and not much BACK TALK which has created much Frustration for them.

They are used to getting and giving salutes, smiles, hood winks and handshakes. This is not what they bargained for.


I actually would perfer to consult with them and help them through this. It is not clear to me that they know what to do from thier actions or lack there of.
__________________

__________________
Joe Colao 50th Anniversary President of Metro NY WBCCI # 30916
KC2RAR
joecolao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2008, 10:55 AM   #184
Restorations done right
Commercial Member
 
Frank's Trailer Works's Avatar
 
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore , Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,547
Images: 2
Man, what a stir this has caused... made national news. See it on my blog.
Anna Lumanum: My friends are too much....
__________________

Frank's Trailer Works is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2008, 11:02 AM   #185
Certifiable
 
mistral blue's Avatar
 
. , .
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,460
In response to post #188

Don,

Thank you for your input and recommendations. It is through this type of
support and constructively sharing of opinions that together we will make a
Good Club into a Great, or maybe event an Exceptional, Club.

I have added Raynold Lemaire, Chairman of the Ethics & Grievance Committee
in my reply to you so that your inputs will be included in an evaluation of
updating the current WBCCI Policy on this subject.

Regards, Jerry

Jerome (Jerry) Larson
International President
WBCCI, the Airstream RV Association
803 E. Pike Street
P.O. Box 612
Jackson Center, OH 45334
__________________
"IT'S A MAGICAL WORLD, HOBBES, OL' BUDDY... LET'S GO EXPLORING!" ~ CALVIN
mistral blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2008, 11:06 AM   #186
Certifiable
 
mistral blue's Avatar
 
. , .
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,460
Smile Happy Labor Day weekend to everyone here too!

Dear President Larson,

You are welcome.

I have some other concerns relating to confidentiality and law enforcement authority as well as the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, but I have not thought them out fully yet. My 8-year old son and I are leaving mom home this weekend and heading out with our trailer together. If the weather is as bad as I think it's going to be on Saturday, I may have some time to figure out how to reconcile my concerns.

Have a nice weekend,
Don Collimore, #5399

Cc: Airforums.com
__________________
"IT'S A MAGICAL WORLD, HOBBES, OL' BUDDY... LET'S GO EXPLORING!" ~ CALVIN
mistral blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2008, 11:16 AM   #187
Rivet Master
 
wheel interested's Avatar
 
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer , Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by 62overlander View Post
Man, what a stir this has caused... made national news. See it on my blog.
Anna Lumanum: My friends are too much....
Who needs buttons and stickers when we could have tattoos and body painting to further the campaign.

Thanks for the laugh.
__________________
Caroljb



photography
wheel interested is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2008, 12:05 PM   #188
Rivet Master
 
Ed Emerick's Avatar
 
1968 30' Sovereign
1959 18' "Footer"
1954 22' Flying Cloud
Brussels , Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 604
Elected?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joecolao View Post
Ed, these are not just any guys, these are members that have been elected by other members,
Joe,
Let me ask how many people ran in those elections? If I’m guessing right no one “Ran” but the individuals that won. Is that truly elected? Heck I was “elected” a Unit officer wasn’t hard no one else want the job! I volunteered too.

As for an open mind I have one, I think over the 10 years I have been in this club that has been demonstrated over and over again. BUT when I read that people want to attempt or insinuate financial collapse of the WBCCI because they are upset then I would call that closed minded.

Just my closed mind working overtime.
__________________
Ed Emerick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2008, 12:28 PM   #189
Rivet Master
 
wheel interested's Avatar
 
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer , Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,039
Did I miss the plans to financially collapse the WBCCI? Have I read the WBCCI will financially collapse on its own if we don't recruit and retain more members before the bank book is empty running into the red currently and projected for Madison, and that even without an alternative rally to show Bob and the leadership that we support Bob's efforts to get due measure of propriety and representation and that we do not approve the IBT's suspension for Bob taking a stand and pointing out bonifide grievances to his fellow team?

I'm thinking somewhere along the way we started to side track and found personal offense. I'm sure having an International in your home state is exciting, I know it was for me in Lansing Michigan. Perhaps you could attend both rallies. But what we need to do right now is stick together to right wrongs in the club. Perhaps you don't agree with what is being offered as possible solutions, that's well taken by your comments but we need not divide and lose sight of the issue and trying to resolve the problem of being stonewalled out of OUR club. Let's keep the ideas coming.
__________________
Caroljb



photography
wheel interested is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2008, 01:43 PM   #190
1 Rivet Member
 
Byteman's Avatar
 
1985 31' Excella
Saint James , New York
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 12
Send a message via MSN to Byteman
? Wake up ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Emerick View Post
Joe,
BUT when I read that people want to attempt or insinuate financial collapse of the WBCCI because they are upset then I would call that closed minded.

Just my closed mind working overtime.
I realize that there is an issue here understanding the reality of what is being discussed. This thread does not start out with a call for the financial collapse of WBCCI.

My understanding is that Bob and Leo are being acted against and taken away from their dear friends and fellow WBCCI members for what I say are reasons unknown. I say unknown, because as of yet there is NO word from anybody but the accused (at least in Leo's case).

You feel stronly about your personal and private loss should there be a financial collapse of WBCCI. I can understand that. You would be upset because through no fault of your own, you would lose an organization that you hold dear.................Now think about that on an even more intimate level, a leader you and your peers have chosen, because of their ability to bring a year in/year out excellent seaon of good Airstream camping fun, being removed by "SOME GUY" whom you have never met and therefore could not have respect for (that needs to be earned). This is what the thead started for.

Ultimately one must ask where is your allegiance..... the people whose faces you see year in and year out enjoying the very activity you cherish so highly? or "SOME GUY" who has a beef for unknown reasons. I am in Leo's unit. My allegiance is to my family and their interests. That means that an attack on Leo adversely affects my family and our ability to enjoy our camping seasons because "SOME GUY" excercising his anti-american, speech denying, confidentiality hiding nonsense. It is THAT person who has INITIATED disharmony in the membership. Remember, Leo's communication was directed to a body of persons whom have the ability to hear and act/not act on the issues he raised.... mere communications (not derogatory or factually inaccurate). If you are so concerned about this, you should be writing the leadership to see what their side is. Personally I haven't heard a thing about it from them. As an affected member I think I was entitled to be part of the conversation before any action is taken. Leo was courteous and courageous enough to bring it to us.... not them. I'm inclined to believe Leo merely because he owns the stage because he is the only one with any answer.
__________________
Byteman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2008, 03:26 PM   #191
Always Airstreaming!
 
rickandsandi's Avatar
 
2005 22' Safari
1960 24' Tradewind
Anytown , Connecticut
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,114
Send a message via AIM to rickandsandi
Actually it was Bob (LI Pets) who made the first post on the open forum. For those of us present at Region 1 Rally in PEI with Bob T, it was presented and made aware to the community of the New England Unit (of which Bob T. is a member) by our unit president. For those who were included in Bob's original email we were kept in the loop by Bob himself. For the extent of which this thread has gone it has traveled thousands of miles of highway and gravel roads and for sure has deviated from its original course. Currently Bob T. is working with fellow members of NEU on a solid course of action which only he can take. Our support and best wishes for a quick resolve is what Bob T needs right now.
__________________
J. Rick Cipot
Sandi Gould
NEU New England Unit
Airstream Life Magazine
Proud Member of WBCCI
WBCCI #3411
AIR #17099
2009 Silverado 2500HD
2004 22' Safari
1960 24' Tradewind
rickandsandi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2008, 04:33 PM   #192
3 Rivet Member
 
safarinight's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
Columbus , Ohio
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 117
Standards

When President Washington left the office of president in 1797 he did something remarkable. He left. This gift to a young country cannot be forgotten because it set the stage for every president since. What would our federal government be like today if every past president, and every cabinet member simply left the elected office and moved into an unofficial cabinet of past presidents with direct access to the president?

Citizens of the United States have for the most part lived in a environment where government works to serve the public. I'm not saying our governments always get it right, but I am saying they try. When they get it wrong, or their actions put them at odds with the public the ever active self correcting machinery of public elections is available to correct the problem. When government tries to hid things from the public the long arm of the freedom of information act, and a free press have prov-en up to the challenge to expose.

As a citizen of the United States, and a veteran of the US military, I can honestly say that many have given their lives to allow fellow citizens the freedom to disagree. The freedom to disagree with each other, and the freedom to disagree with government. I am also unaware of anyone loosing their citizenship for calling a politician a failure. Pointing out government's failure is expected. Our leaders may not like it but it's part of the process and they deal with it.

There have been many post concerning the actions of two fellow members of the WBCCI, and the response our leaders have taken against them. I do not personally know ether one of these WBCCI members, but I have followed their efforts to affect the direction our club is taking. At first glance one seemed gruff, combative, and at times insulting. But if one takes the time to look a different personality emerges. A personality that cares and is willing to invest both time and money to help steer us through the rapids. Keep in mid no one ever gets angry about something they don't care about.

The heavy handed response these fellow members have received from our WBCCI leadership for criticizing is contrary to the basic values most of us confess. How can we accept a lower ethical standard from our WBCCI leaders then we do our government?

With that said... I hope everyone enjoys the holidays!
__________________
2004 Safari 25SS
Air: 11912
TAC: OH-11
#1941 Nova
Central Ohio VJMC
Vintage Tube Audio
safarinight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2008, 04:48 PM   #193
WBCCI 11067 WDCU
 
ckeysor's Avatar
 
1986 25' Sovereign
Atlanta , Georgia
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 198
Images: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickandsandi View Post
To help Bob, please take the time to send our WBCCI president an email or letter showing member support for Bob and his right to voice his concerns. When doing so, please be cordial and to the point. Thank you.
I also wrote Jerry Larson a cordial email suggesting that they suspension of someone who cares so much for the club isn't healthy. He responded promptly and was very cordial in return. I believe that people like Jerry care very much for WBCCI, just have different thoughts on how to keep the organization viable.

In my job, I work with non-profit retirement communities that are getting ready for dramatic changes brought on by the generational shfit (sound familar). In every case there are people lined up against change and some for change. I have found, without exception, that good people can end up on what I consider the wrong side of the issue. Sometimes through discussions and sharing of information we transform the organization. I will also say there are times when I fail, and the organization goes in a different direction. In that case I turn my attention to another organization. One that is willing to share a vision that will transform it into the future. It is always tough to walk away, but the only way that I can remain passionate about what I do for a living.

I think everyone related to this has that decision to make, become involved? stay involved? change your focus? One thing I know for sure is that when good people start treating other good people badly, it probably time to walk away.

Personally, I will continue to support people like Bob, but acknowledge good people like Jerry. At least for now.

ps. I would also like to note that I think the 2020 committee is a huge step forward and we should probably give them some credit for their efforts.
__________________
Chris Keysor
WBCCI 11067
1986 Sovereign 25' CB
2007 Chevy Silverado 1500
2007 Toyota Land Cruiser
ckeysor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2008, 07:50 PM   #194
Rivet Master

 
Southwestern , Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,669
Jerry Larson engaging in dialogue on WBCCI Forum

Folks,

As of this eveniing, WBCCI International President Jerry Larson is engaging in constructive dialog on the WBCCI Forum. I take this as a positive sign. He has posted on the Membership Questions/Affecting Change thread

WBCCI Forum -

If you would like to engage him, please be calm and courteous--let's not blow this opportunity--and post your name and WBCCI number.

Cheers,
Nuvi
__________________
Nuvite-F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2008, 09:46 PM   #195
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
That's a step in the right direction I suppose except where he demands your full name and WBCCI number.

Internet users are entitled to Anonymity on the Internet, in fact there is case law on the issue.

Perhaps Mr. Larson wishes to inhibit that right.

Since Leo's charges were based on what he allegedly posted on the Internet. Jim Franklin may file a grievance if he thinks your violating the ethics in what you post.

Jerry should make it clear that any post will not be used to file any sort of a complaint against the poster.
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2008, 10:55 PM   #196
Moderator
Commercial Member
 
eubank's Avatar
 
1967 30' Sovereign
Bosque Farms , New Mexico
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,423
Actualy, it's not quite that simple. Yes, we are guaranteed anonymity on the internet, but that does not imply that we're able to use privately held databases and software (e.g., forums) without rules. There are rules governing the use of every forum I'm aware of. Perhaps the WBCCI may decide that it wants to make rules regarding the use of its forum software.

Personally, I don't mind revealing my identity in exchange for the use of the forums!


Lynn


Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
That's a step in the right direction I suppose except where he demands your full name and WBCCI number.

Internet users are entitled to Anonymity on the Internet, in fact there is case law on the issue.

Perhaps Mr. Larson wishes to inhibit that right.

Since Leo's charges were based on what he allegedly posted on the Internet. Jim Franklin may file a grievance if he thinks your violating the ethics in what you post.

Jerry should make it clear that any post will not be used to file any sort of a complaint against the poster.
__________________

__________________
WBCCI 21043
eubank is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Building L sofa Need Help & Suggestions (Bob Villa) LI Pets Cabinets, Counter Tops & Furnishings 21 11-09-2006 12:22 AM
Applause for Bob Boondocker Boondocking 6 04-10-2006 11:20 AM
Suspended Ceilings tamis General Interior Topics 5 10-03-2005 10:13 PM
Bob Hope... canny_banjo_man Off Topic Forum 10 07-30-2003 02:43 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.