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Old 08-28-2008, 12:35 PM   #155
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Good points Forest, can you cite the section of Roberts Rules that speaks to that please.

Also Bob was suspended not expelled, that make any difference?
There is actually an entire chapter - Chapter XX Disciplinary Procedures - specifically pp 630 through 643.

A suspension for a year is simply a temporary expulsion, whereas expulsion itself has the connotation of being permanent. Either pronouncement has the effect of removing the member from the society.
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Old 08-28-2008, 01:27 PM   #156
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alternate rally?

an alternate rally is a great idea and WOULD BE a powerful statement.

for those of you who think the wb' wouldn't notice, THINK AGAIN.
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a small forum group of 10-11 trailers (not protesting) camped 35 miles from salem 7/1-7/4 3 years ago.

i pulled up stakes from the pit in salem and joined them in the forrest, near the waterfalls.

just camping folks and it was really nice.

well "news" of this other rally hit the international EXACTLY as it was happening.

friendly folks drove up to visit us, of course DAY PASSES into the silver falls rally site were FREE...

eventually 2 "wb' officers" wearing officer garb, "accidentally wandered" into our camping area....

which was secluded on a dead end park road with NO services...

they won't get out of the cars to chat, when invited to join us,

but wondered "WHY" we'd wanna camp in up in the mountains, when the action was in salem.

one of the officers noted that there were MORE vintage bambis in our little group that in the 1000 down in the pit.
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so an ALT RALLY is a great idea, would be LOTSZ of fun and they would definitely feel the pinch money wise...

but i doubt it will really take shape and HAPPEN.

what i read here is some posturing and threats by a couple of p.o.'d "OFFICER TYPES"...

thIS tempest will be contained, the bobbleheads will back off, and this revolt will blow over just like this one did...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...rge-24155.html

so if ya REALLY WANT an ALTERNATE RALLY, start planning really PLANNING it and watch the fun!

cheers
2air'
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Old 08-28-2008, 01:56 PM   #157
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I have worked in municipal government for the past decade. People dislike Robert's Rules because it is a playground for pedants. (Trust me on this). I have served on (and chaired) numerous boards, commission and governing bodies. My standing recommendation is to adopt a greatly simplified set of rules of order. It doesn't take Robert's Rules to have civil and productive meetings. In fact, when the business of the body becomes procedural nitpicking, pretty much all hope is lost.

As for "change," it's always about the nickels and dime (if you'll forgive a bad pun). If the WBCCI is truly running in the red, the best way to effect change is to further diminish the revenue stream. The WBCCI doesn't exist in some alternative universe where money doesn't matter. They need to pay their bills like any other organization. The larger the deficit, the greater the pressure.

My wife and I are new "vintage" Airstream owners. We haven't joined WBCCI so I don't have a dog in this fight. We bought our Airstream for recreational use. Rule books, parliamentary procedures and political infighting... that feels like work, not fun.
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:05 PM   #158
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Killing MY Club!

So let me get this straight!

A guy gets suspended (and will not talk or post about it because he will get thrown out of the club) and a number of you want to cripple the club. By “doing the math” and sending a very strong message, a financially crippling message, it’s OK to try to kill the WBCCI? Is that what Bob really wants? If he doesn’t care about the WBCCI then why don’t I see him posting his side? Why? He doesn’t want to leave the club that’s why! Sanctioning an event that could hurt the WBCCI financially and cause the club to fail (I really don’t think that is possible) just doesn’t make sense, does it Bob?

Now lets call this what it really is: This is a reaction by a group that can’t seem to find a way to work the system and are getting frustrated. Frustrated to the point that if you can’t play in the big boy’s sandbox then let’s pee in it so no one else can play either.

Boy, from a group wearing blue berets in Bozeman to wanting to kill my club that is sure a big 180!

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not impressed with the actions of the IBT over the past years either, but this is getting really old. What will be the next reason to start a “New Club”? Me, I can’t see any reason to support the IBT at this point but I’m not going to support ANY effort to kill MY club. Keep focused folks; these old guys aren’t going anywhere and neither are those who want change. But what about us who want to go to a WBCCI function, sit under our awnings and drink beer with our friends? All this talk and threats could take that away from me, but in reality I don’t think so. Chill folks it’s only a hobby!
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:09 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post

thIS tempest will be contained, the bobbleheads will back off, and this revolt will blow over just like this one did...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...rge-24155.html
well, it didn't exactly "blow over"

and from what i can see, as far as the type of goings-on which caused that thread to be started over two years ago, nothing has changed

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Old 08-28-2008, 02:38 PM   #160
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Nobody is trying to kill your club, Ed. . .

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Boy, from a group wearing blue berets in Bozeman to wanting to kill my club that is sure a big 180!
Ed,

Nobody is trying to kill the WBCCI. It's just that, like the old farmer said when he whopped his mule up 'side the head with a two by four, "Before they'll listen, you have to get their attention."
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Old 08-28-2008, 03:08 PM   #161
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A guy gets suspended (and will not talk or post about it because he will get thrown out of the club) and a number of you want to cripple the club.




No one wants to kill the club, Leo and others say a lot of things with tongue in cheek, understand that first.

If that were the case we wouldn't take the time to post in these threads.

We are looking to have a club that is run by people that are in touch with the members and lose their Lawrence Welk and or elitist ancient attitudes.

Additionally, abide by the bylaws and rules, Bob & Leo tried hard to make the changes they and others felt were needed but were singled out for being open and opinionated. They also dared to run for office off the floor which pissed off a lot of bosses.

In return Bob got suspended. In fact they did it I understand with out giving Bob the required 30 days to reply to the allegations.

How do you spell Kangaroo?

Leo is the 1VP of my unit knowing what he has accomplished for my units members makes me madder than hell for what he's going thru now.

Latter on when the issues become public (if permitted) I promise you will be amazed at how the committee operates.

As I said in the WBCCI forum if General J. Larson and his team don't wake up and set this back to status quo they may very well be sounding the the death kneel of this great club.

Don't let it happen contact your units leaders to contact Jerry Larson, in fact contact him yourself and let your thoughts be known.

He isn't replying to my emails perhaps he will to yours.
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Old 08-28-2008, 03:17 PM   #162
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Who is wearing the black hats in all this? Time and time again the members are frustrated by the leadership giving them no recognition and leadership become obstructionists towards their own members' inititives rather than helping and mentoring them and insultingly bemoan that no one steps up and they exist solely BECAUSE of their hundred more or less volunteers and then follow their own destructive agendas. Then the activists are left holding the wrap from people who don't even know who is who and what is right and what is wrong but it appears someone is making trouble. What a skew and a brainwashing from the higher ups they have swallowed hook line and sinker!

If you think members are trying to kill the club and not save it and you think the club leaders are doing their best then you may want to have another think coming. Now who IS paying attention and keeping some track of the immediate and immediate past and of new and current business? Whatever would make someone think that so many people are outraged over nothing and that they like to complain (except for the witless IBT, that is) and not have fun. But there is a time and a season for everything. Right now the club is in crisis. No one would have to lift a finger to kill the WBCCI that many already consider dead. That noise you are hearing is the sound of reconstruction and preservation!!!!!!!!!!!

I suggest all who want to get out of the kitchen go for their sit and beer break NOW. No need to trouble yourselves reading these threads. This is PURELY voluntary. Don't let anyone mess up you focus or fun activities. You're safe.

I think Bob made his stance and his appeal to fellow leaders and members quite vividly clear. What more do you require of him? Perhaps it's time to follow his couragious lead on our behalf instead of so soon switching over to counting up our personal losses before they are even hatched.

Members, enthusiasts, and units will continue but it is the old order that will fade away, hopefully sooner than later, or at least their archaic and oppressive method of operation. You don't need money to keep your real friends and meet together. Give freely and receive freely. Withholding money might curtail frivelous expenditures and wake up some, however, at least put a crimp on the money tree to see what really matters and the kind of fellowship and recreation Wally truly inspired before the self important bean counters took over.
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Old 08-28-2008, 03:52 PM   #163
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A simple universal rule for organizations--like species--is, "Adapt or die." No human enterprise is immune from this rule, no matter how rich its history or profound its accomplishments. Human history is littered with the corpses of once great and noble undertakings that simply could not adapt fast enough.

In my experience, change happens through crisis. When an organization has become rigid, stale, bureaucractic, rulebound or Byzantine, it usually takes a "life threatening" crisis to motivate change. In some cases, the crisis simply overwhelms the entity, killing it... or the organization withers, dying slowly over the course of years or decades. Every so often, the crisis is enough to bring about the change necessary for the organization to reinvent itself and survive.

The simple fact of the matter is that if the WBCCI is not growing and evolving, then it's dying. The only question is how quickly. Someone posted that the "old men" who run the club aren't going anywhere. Not to put too fine a point on it, but yes, they are... unless they've discovered the secret of immortality.

I'm not posting here because I have any particular agenda. I've just happened to spend most of my adult life trying to help organizations grow, evolve and adapt. In my work, I've seen some wonderful community organizations get old and die. The challenge facing the WBCCI is not that different than one facing local clubs like JayCees, Lion's Clubs, etc. Some groups "get it." They understand that survival requires profound changes... not just adding another page or two to the rulebook. Transformational change is hard for people; it's doubly hard for groups. By all accounts the WBCCI has some great members. I hope for the sake of these folks, the organization can change fast enough.
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Old 08-28-2008, 04:02 PM   #164
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Don't let it happen contact your units leaders to contact Jerry Larson, in fact contact him yourself and let your thoughts be known.
Sorry don't waste your time he stated in an email to others he will not reply to any inquiries .
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Old 08-28-2008, 04:15 PM   #165
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I am not surprised to hear that. From a blanket internet gag order to one chiseled post representing communication nauseated me with the plethora of thank yous over at WBCCI.org. Is he a deer to be enticed out into the open because of timidity? Puleeze! It's about time he posts and does what's required of the office in communication. Still falls short and is only to placate and run rough shot to the masses. As if saying thank you to the ruthless IBT will change their tune and be encouraging to them!
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Old 08-28-2008, 06:06 PM   #166
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Sorry don't waste your time he stated in an email to others he will not reply to any inquiries .
To give credit where credit is due, many of us emailed Jerry Larson last week and received an acknowledgment within the hour. I am sure at this point that he is simply overwhelmed by the number of emails he is receiving. (Hopefully that by itself is telling him something.)

Like all of you, I am disappointed with his formal comment which doesn't really tell us anything we didn't already know, and implies that he can't do anything about it.

But the reality is that the buck stops at the International President, and he has the power to stop this train wreck if he acts promptly. Article V of the bylaws gives him the power to pick the three members of the appeals Hearing Board from the full membership of the IBT, and I am sure he can find three Region Presidents on the IBT who are eager to bring this matter to a halt. At least one of them is publicly saying so.
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Old 08-28-2008, 06:28 PM   #167
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Article V of the bylaws gives him the power to pick the three members of the appeals Hearing Board from the full membership of the IBT, and I am sure he can find three Region Presidents on the IBT who are eager to bring this matter to a halt. At least one of them is publicly saying so.
That's correct, but he also can select 3 that will uphold that suspension.
Or 3 that will reinstate Bob T.

He will know that outcome before hand

So the out come will speak volumes for how Jerry wants it to end.

Galvanize the club or see a new one begin
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Old 08-28-2008, 07:05 PM   #168
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(standing ovation)
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