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LI Pets · 11-17-2008, 04:36 PM

As you all know Bob T was to have his dismissal and apology published in the Blue Beret.

Jerry Larson decided to over rule that direct order and findings of the committee will not be publishing citing confidentiality.

I hate to say here we go again but.................

Question can/should IP not follow the directive?

The EGC was aware of the bylaws and Roberts rules when directing the club to publish the memo, they had to know their order directing the publication would negate the confidentiality clause.

Should we email/call to ask Mr Larson to reconsider his position.

wkerfoot · 11-17-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LI Pets

As you all know Bob T was to have his dismissal and apology published in the Blue Berret.

Jerry Larson decided to over rule that direct order and findings of the comittee will not be publishing citing confidentiality.

I hate to say here we go again but.................

Question can/should IP not follow the directive?

The EGC was aware of the bylaws and Roberts rules when directing the club to publish the memo, they had to know their order directing the publication would negate the confidentialty clause.

Should we email/call to ask Mr Larson to reconsider his position.

Bob,

Where did this information come from?

Bill

Foiled Again · 11-17-2008, 05:09 PM

Well, here is my take for whatever it's worth.

First Bob is out, now he's back in AND he will be showing up and participating in IBT meetings, etc. EVERYONE will figure this one out.

Perhaps we should let the Jerry Larson eat his big bowl of steaming (oatmeal) in "private".

Everyone will know what happened. The gossip mill will spread a better story than any apology ever will. Bob deserves one, true. But now Bob and most of the rest of us can chime in about really changing the club much more openly now. That was the goal. If you've BEEN in the end zone more than once you don't have to do a big silly dance. Just look like it's no more than you expected.

If Bob Thompson and all of us who support dragging the IBT into the 21st century can show gentle restraint by not demanding a public apology, doesn't it actually ad to the load of (oatmeal) that has to be eaten?

This IS a Karma thing. Negative Karma reflects back on the sender more than on the recipient. Let the bad Karma and bad manners displayed by our IBT President start and stop with him.

Just my opinion. Paula

BTW, will someone from the WDCU pm me with info on how to join. I want to rabble rouse from the inside now.

LI Pets · 11-17-2008, 05:09 PM

PM sent

wkerfoot · 11-17-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

Well, here is my take for whatever it's worth.

First Bob is out, now he's back in AND he will be showing up and participating in IBT meetings, etc. EVERYONE will figure this one out.

Perhaps we should let the Jerry Larson eat his big bowl of steaming (oatmeal) in "private".

Everyone will know what happened. The gossip mill will spread a better story than any apology ever will. Bob deserves one, true. But now Bob and most of the rest of us can chime in about really changing the club much more openly now. That was the goal. If you've BEEN in the end zone more than once you don't have to do a big silly dance. Just look like it's no more than you expected.

If Bob Thompson and all of us who support dragging the IBT into the 21st century can show gentle restraint by not demanding a public apology, doesn't it actually ad to the load of (oatmeal) that has to be eaten?

This IS a Karma thing. Negative Karma reflects back on the sender more than on the recipient. Let the bad Karma and bad manners displayed by our IBT President start and stop with him.

Just my opinion. Paula

BTW, will someone from the WDCU pm me with info on how to join. I want to rabble rouse from the inside now.

Paula,

Unfortunately, the world does not revolve around AirForums or even WBCCI forums. Bob Thompson's suspension has never been mentioned at any WBCCI rally which I have attended. There are many, many WBCCI members who do not pay attention to anything on the internet forums or email lists. Those members get their news from the Blue Beret and region and unit newsletters.

For example, Bob Thompson's suspension (and reversal) has not been mentioned on the region 12 site.

Bill

Foiled Again · 11-17-2008, 05:39 PM

True the world doesn't revolve around Air Forums or the Blue Beret... but apparently Larry can't quite ignore the forums can he? So maybe a few more people are interested in it than you or I know.

Will think on this. Will join. If Larry's reading this, will it worry him?

Vengence is mine sayeth the Ford (my last name IS Ford, and yes I drive a chevy)

wheel interested · 11-17-2008, 06:07 PM

No acts of contrition mean no repentence. If it was good enough for the model prayer, It's good enough for me. To be forgiven you must be sorry. To put pride first speaks volumes of the silent IBT. No way would I align myself behind that kind of leadership.

Gene · 11-17-2008, 06:52 PM

I watch these posts on WBCCI with curious interest. For one thing, I am glad we didn't join because having been involved with organizations that needed change, I have learned how hard it is to change them. Those in control won't give up power easily and are committed to the "way things have always been". It's what kept monarchy in power so long. They will make sure they are replaced with people with the same viewpoints, so it does little good to wait for them to die. I have also found that ends justifies the means often guides them and they ignore bylaws and their own rules, or find a way to rationalize whatever they do. This is a weakness that can be exploited.

I think most organizations that have been around a while get arthritic and the only way to change them is: (1) decide what you want and can be agreed upon by everyone or almost everyone, (2) a strategy subscribed to by many people to take over—it's basic politics and takes a while, and (3) keep publicizing the problems, even taking it to the national media (Airstream stories are good press). It's also good to know the rules backwards and forwards and use them against the ruling class when possible. My impression is that the company supports WBCCI in some way, so finding out just how Airstream sees the situation is important and once the dissidents have a plan for change, approaching the company could be useful.

This is hard enough in a local organization, much harder in a national one. People who want change have to agree on what they want changed and how to do it. At this point, people have a lot of complaints, but I expect what each one wants is different from everyone else's. This is difficult to do online, so maybe a "Change the WBCCI Rally" could be organized and then people can debate what they want, write up a proposal (i.e., "locks can be on the tongue at rallies", "no one may wear a vest", "no flags showing how important you are"—a bit tongue in cheek), how to do it, choose leaders, and go for it. This rally may have to go on for more than a weekend or there may have to a couple of them.

Of course, membership may dwindle to the point it's easy to take over, but that's counting on things out of your control and may not happen in the next decade. And maybe membership will dwindle so much, it's easier to start a new organization with much greater informality, but that also may take a decade. After that Rally or two, maybe the participants will decide it's better to start a new organization and find a way to promote it—getting the company to support that would be very helpful. If you've never run a large nonprofit organization, a warning is in order—it's a lot of work and you have to be dedicated to it. And in 20 years, a bunch of younger troublemakers will be telling you about how hidebound you are.

Good luck. I'd love to see a national organization I'd want to join.

Gene

Sixty3TW4US · 11-17-2008, 06:55 PM

No comment! I just want to have fun and enjoy my AS and go camping. Did i just comment? join or not to join you are not making it easy.

whitsend · 11-17-2008, 07:07 PM

Gene said "Good luck. I'd love to see a national organization I'd want to join.

Count me in!!

Ed Emerick · 11-17-2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

Well, here is my take for whatever it's worth.

Just my opinion. Paula

.

Enough is enough, I say get over it and move on. Thanks Paula.

wkerfoot · 11-17-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixty3TW4US

No comment! I just want to have fun and enjoy my AS and go camping. Did i just comment? join or not to join you are not making it easy.

Have fun and enjoy my AS. Just what we do when we go to a WBCCI rally with our unit.

Bill

Ed Emerick · 11-17-2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

Paula,

For example, Bob Thompson's suspension (and reversal) has not been mentioned on the region 12 site.

Bill

And AGAIN we need to get over this and move on. Don't fuel this fire any more. Some would like it to burn on and on, but its time to focus on the future and not the past, let Bob go do his thing and we will go do ours.

LI Pets · 11-17-2008, 07:40 PM

Here's what's all about.

Bob is coming to the Can Opener, I hope to see him there!

Ed Emerick · 11-17-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel interested;63916t3

No way would I align myself behind that kind of leadership.

I have to add 3 to post so there but the title should say it all

Dieselgrin · 11-17-2008, 08:00 PM

Boy do I ever feel like an outsider. As a new member, I have no idea what this thread is about. Sounds like something I probably should just walk on by.

Gene · 11-17-2008, 08:56 PM

Actually I agree about moving on. Organize to change it, or quit the organization, or don't join.

Gene

wheel interested · 11-17-2008, 09:43 PM

Well Ed I did renew after hearing Bob was reinstated and I joined a local unit rather than signing as a MAL in support of the new 2nd VP Laura (Airedale) At 21 years old and the author of young people in the WBCCI thread I think she is hope for the future.

I really doubt you agree with being in lockstep with the current IBT and what they have done and what they are doing, so your post not to belong has surprised me. Must have caught you on a fluke in a bad way today.

But just to demonstrate how simple this is, I'm sorry my words were grievious to you, wasn't my intention at all. Now see IBT, it's not that hard to apologize! The thing is... to say sorry accepts responsibility and that is what they are avoiding in my opinion. I believe they believe they are never wrong, do hate being criticized, and will not address anything but a compliment or an award.

However the recommendation of the review board has not been completed and Bob's justice has not been satisfied as such. Just the facts here. I see no cause to become alarmed Ed. There will be those that believe the apology should be given as directed.

wheel interested · 11-17-2008, 10:11 PM

As a mom I have had more than a little experience in this and the "I'm sorry" part, though it may have taken longer, was an imperative part of the lesson and the "break" in the altercation was just the first of it. Following through is significant in my opinion.

Foiled Again · 11-17-2008, 10:17 PM

I see a trend developing here. I got my info on the WDCU. I'll fill out the app tomorrow. I had a 3.5 hour stint at the dentist's today and I'm whipped. Since Bob is going to the Can Opener, I'll do my best to get there too and meet him.

Seriously, can we change WBCCI.... or do we really even care? Lets all:

focus on going camping and building the local clubs into CAMPING clubs
if we must have conflict with the IBT find battles worth fighting - Such as changing WBCCI enough to get Corporate sponsorship back, and being more frugal with the club's money.
infiltrate every region with forum members (I bet that's a done deal already.)- teach everyone who is computer illiterate how to use the internet and introduce them to airforums.com
gradually take positions of leadership
continue to support forums rallies - its about CAMPING folks
invite and entertain the blue beret members and IBT fogies, converting a few here and there, getting a few more to be a bit tolerant, getting the rest too drunk to care
outlive them if all else fails

P.