Bob Thompson - no apology

[drag'nwagon]

Well.....where is the leadership on this issue?

I know they are reading it or at least hearing about it.

C'mon lets hear it!

Stand and lead or lose membership it really is that simple.

Take the lumps if deserved, or argue if they are not, but please stop hiding.

[Shacksman]

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick

Doug
Participate the way I have over the years and then maybe I will listen to what you have to say (complain) about..

Originally Posted by Over59

Well that's a familiar WBCCI leadership attitude. You, there on the side... you.. new guy with only 5 years in the club.... if I want your opinion I'll ask for it...but please understand you should decline as you haven't got enough time in the club to know what you are talking about....Just send in your dues, pay to attend International and keep your complaints to yourself....

Over59, that comment was made to me and funny thing, I have 11 years in the club and was mentioned 3 times in the last Vintage Advantage for participating at vintage rallies. But what do I know?
Doug Rowbottom

[Gen Disarray]

I hate to interrupt the squabble, but I am curious; I knew about the larger tiff in WBCCI, but not within VAC. What is the fighting over on the vintage side?

I return you to your regularly scheduled WBCCI drama

[airedale]

Frank, Rob, I know how you guys feel, although I didnt park with the VAC last International in Bozeman, I still tried to attend the Happy Hours. I felt like I was not wanted there, if I wasnt parked with them I was almost given the cold shoulder. I even went and asked a VAC officer about the issue with having non-vintage parked with the VAC and was told " Thats not a battle you want to fight." I asked why and was told because we dont want to push people away, and although they are newer trailers at the rally, they may have a vintage at home. Pushing away is just what happend, we pushed away some really great members!

I believe that vintage should be parked in vintage. Even if we wernt on grass, at least put us together. All or none is a saying that Im wondering if leadership has forgotten.

As for the happy hour, I wasnt complaining, I thought it was fine for finger foods, it wasnt suppost to be a meal. Although many of the dishes didnt require much work, its the thought that matters for me. People took the effort to bring something and thats better than nothing.

[65GT]

I'm a VAC member for at least three years (I think), and I heard something new this year that I had never heard before...

In years past, you had to own a rig that is 25 years or older. That cost you $20/year. If you didn't qualify to be a member (because you don't own that 25+ year old rig) you could pay $20/year and become an affiliate member, or maybe it was a plain old newsletter subscriber (Kimber's Vintage Advantage is way cool). However, I also believed that if you were a subscriber, you could park adjacent to the VAC as long as they had your reservation (to get more space) in advance.

This year, for the first time ever, I was told that the VAC must be open to ALL WBCCI members, regardless of the member's Airstream's age. That was a new one on me and I questioned it, and got the exact same answer again.

Now, I'm no conspiracy theorist but if the VAC has gone this long without a major tear, and if the mothership has somehow demanded this change in membership, then where would the source of this current crisis be coming from?

That's all I've got -- but that news was real news -- you need to find the source of the change in membership requirements, and I suspect you might find that in the brand new VAC bylaws. I have no idea where those are -- but they're out there somewhere...

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[62overlander]

Leo, let me see if I am getting this right, for I am somewhat simple. You don't have to actually own a vintage rig to be in the VAC you just need to send in the $20. And because the VAC wants bodies in it's numbers, it does not matter if you park a non vintage rig with the club dedicated to vintage units. Is that right?

Leo also, you understand these things better than me.... How does a guy come from no where and become president of the club? I had always thought you start as 3rd VP and move up until it is your turn. I am very confused about this. Could you explain that to me(or us)?

[DEITZ645]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

Leo, let me see if I am getting this right, for I am somewhat simple. You don't have to actually own a vintage rig to be in the VAC you just need to send in the $20. And because the VAC wants bodies in it's numbers, it does not matter if you park a non vintage rig with the club dedicated to vintage units. Is that right?

Leo also, you understand these things better than me.... How does a guy come from no where and become president of the club? I had always thought you start as 3rd VP and move up until it is your turn. I am very confused about this. Could you explain that to me(or us)?

Frank,
This right from the Internet...

The Vintage Airstream Club

Member - (WBCCI) Wally Byam Caravan Club International Member that owns a Recreational Vehicle Manufactured by Airstream that is 25 or more years old.

Associate - (WBCCI) Wally Byam Caravan Club International Member that owns a Recreational Vehicle Manufactured by Airstream that is 24 or less years old.

I do not onw a vintage unit, but I do believe you all have a legitimate gripe.

[65GT]

What you dug up on the website are the old membership requirements. In my discussions with the VAC President and 1st Lady in Madison, the rules have changed. I questioned it when I heard it the first time, and it was then repeated to me again. I still say somebody needs to see that new VAC Constitution and Bylaws -- that is the ruling document, and if it's been changed, the VAC membership needed to approve those changes. I just hope they were aware of them -- I was not...

VAC member/subscriber non-vintage rigs were not allowed to be parked in the vintage area in years past. In fact, if you weren't parading in, arriving early, it was implied that you couldn't even park in the vintage area, not until after the parade came in anyway.

As for Rob's situation, we didn't discuss it. I have no idea what actually happened there. Rob would know better than anyone else, unless they haven't told him what really happened.

[Mikethefixit]

Just keep sendin the money for the dues. Seems like you guys will never learn. IF Everyone withhold your dues money and see what kind of action ya get.See how long it takes for the higherups to realize there aint no money for them to FREE CAMP ON. This is just my opinion that I am intitled too. The club will never see me as a member as long as they are allowed to MAKE UP THE RULES AS THEY GO.Wally would turn over in his grave if he could see whats happened to his Caravan Club. From everything I have read ,he loved people and making friends, and loved campin,not Politics and Militurisum.

[62overlander]

... it was actually never Wally's club.

Leo, how did the rules and bylaws change without a vote by the members? We had to vote on something as stupid as weather a forum could be made. Why can bylaws be changed without a vote?

And I still want to know how someone goes becomes president of the club after just one term in office.

[rideair]

Leo,
To my knowledge, nothing has changed in the VAC Constitution or By-Law since the Don Perry days back in 2000-2001. Also, per the Constitution it takes a vote of 2/3rds or better to change the Constitution and I’ve never heard of any voting ever going on within the VAC.
As for parking of “non-vintage” units in the VAC parking area at International, it appears it has become more of a year-by-year decision based on which way the winds are blowing at the time. There should be a “hard-n-fast” rule in regards to this issue, if not you have problems arise like it did this past year. If the rule is, “there are no rules”, that’s fine to, just make that the “rule” and be done with it. I personally think, if you allow rigs newer than 25yrs to park in the vintage area, then the question becomes “What’s the point of having VINTAGE (VAC) parking in the first place?”
It looks to me what happened is simple:
“You had people who are “Regular” members (owning vintage rigs or owns a vintage rig and decided not to bring it to International) of the VAC that came to the International Rally from a Region or Unit. Along with them they have friends who are “Associate” members (not owning vintage rigs) from the same Region or Unit area that wanted to park along with their friends. And that’s what they did.”
Now the question becomes, is there a rule allowing or not allowing this to happen? But that is still “not the point”.
The point is this:
You have a person that was elected to the 2ndVP spot of the VAC. Because the 1stVP decided to “step-down” in that role, “Based on the VAC Constitution” the 2ndVP is then suppose to move up to the 1stVP spot, this did not happen for some reason and the VAC Constitution was “not” followed. The person whom was by-passed some would say has done more for the WBCCI and the VAC than any other member to get people to join the VAC, between the VAP, vintage caravans, Unit President of one of the largest Unit (made up of over 70% vintage rigs) always talking about how great club the WBCCI/VAC is to be a part of, etc… even to the point of joking about naming his new-born son “Wally”. So, if this had been you and after heading a caravan of “VINTAGE”10 trailers halfway across the USA to the International Rally, telling them the whole way how great it’s going to be, then to be stuck out to the side while “new” trailers are parked in the main VAC area to allows their friends to hang-out together and being told by the uppers, “That is how it goes” and “If you are upset, it is your problem, not mine” I can understand the rub.
People make mistakes, when you do, stuck it up and say you are sorry for the people you offended! No one is perfect, thus the reason for the words “Sorry, I screwed up, I’ll try my best not to let it happen again”.
The reason why we have a VAC Constitution is to prevent things like this from happening; either follow it or throw it in the trash and let every man fend for himself.

[Foiled Again]

I rejoined WBCCI solely to be part of the rocking WDCU. I'll support my local camping club and enjoy rallying with them whenever possible. I'll definitely contribute to anything that keeps PeeWee active as a guest at any WDCU rally whether I can be there or not.

I doubt that I will ever go to an International. I really don't want to sink into the seemingly endless mire of politics and people milking the IBC's treasury for free camping while failing to serve the needs of the membership at large. HOWEVER, if there's a WDCU or forums rally happening the same week as the international you can bet I'll be spending my time, energy and money there instead.

Paula

[Coloradobus]

Parking,

Hmm, the VAC Prez, Veeps, had NO control over the parking situation on the grass. There were also a number of VAC rigs that showed up without prior reservations at the pre rally. So, its a little tough to plan for more spaces when you don't know your total numbers! The WBCCI Parking Committee had issues of their own and they were confused which added to this mess. There were already newer airstreams parked on the grass before we got there. Who they were, who knows? The area of grass that was NOT used closest to the pavement was not used for a good reason:::, it was prone to flooding during heavy downpours.
Majority of trailers parked on the grass were 30 amp, except for the back row against the trees was 3 amp.

The vagrant in the tent on site was an Alliant Event Center issue, not WBCCI.

Happy Hour:

If the fair was small and unsatisfying, what was your contribution? If nothing, there is no room to complain.

Kid Entertainment.

Teasing other members pets is NOT entertainment. If I did that as a kid 40 years ago, my Dad would have planted me!!

General Meeting.

Discussion was put forth to the general membership who showed up, about updating the VAC constitution and bylaws to conform with the main WBCCI constitution and bylaws. Membership had a vote. This update was previously published and available. This is a requirement of "constitutional housekeeping" that must occur every few years.

Officers:

Members have the right to nominate candidates from the floor.

Parking in the grass;

Pee Wee was representing the WDCU and was on the grass. And, Michael DePraida, the "Tee shirt Vendor, WDCU member was on the GRASS, in his mid to late 90's model Excella

A whole lot of whining here, any of us could have been parked on pavement.

Less bugs comes with less grass and a cleaner rig.

[65GT]

Originally Posted by Coloradobus

General Meeting.

Discussion was put forth to the general membership who showed up, about updating the VAC constitution and bylaws to conform with the main WBCCI constitution and bylaws. Membership had a vote. This update was previously published and available. This is a requirement of "constitutional housekeeping" that must occur every few years.

Hi guys! So, was it at this meeting that the VAC Regular Member requirements changed to allow any and all WBCCI members to become VAC Members? If yes, was the general membership in attendance fully aware that was a major change that they were voting on?

I think valid points are being made here on that aspect. If VAC membership no longer requires that you own and participate in a vintage rig, then honestly, what's the point?

(broken record on) I'd also like to see an official membership directory for members and affiliate members (subscribers). I've been able to get something locally, but I think a club needs a membership directory...

If you know anybody in the know, please pass it on.

It was great to see you both in Madison -- nice classic MoHo for this trip...

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