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Old 07-07-2009, 10:04 PM   #99
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Frank, Rob, I know how you guys feel, although I didnt park with the VAC last International in Bozeman, I still tried to attend the Happy Hours. I felt like I was not wanted there, if I wasnt parked with them I was almost given the cold shoulder. I even went and asked a VAC officer about the issue with having non-vintage parked with the VAC and was told " Thats not a battle you want to fight." I asked why and was told because we dont want to push people away, and although they are newer trailers at the rally, they may have a vintage at home. Pushing away is just what happend, we pushed away some really great members!

I believe that vintage should be parked in vintage. Even if we wernt on grass, at least put us together. All or none is a saying that Im wondering if leadership has forgotten.

As for the happy hour, I wasnt complaining, I thought it was fine for finger foods, it wasnt suppost to be a meal. Although many of the dishes didnt require much work, its the thought that matters for me. People took the effort to bring something and thats better than nothing.
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Old 07-08-2009, 03:35 AM   #100
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Leo, let me see if I am getting this right, for I am somewhat simple. You don't have to actually own a vintage rig to be in the VAC you just need to send in the $20. And because the VAC wants bodies in it's numbers, it does not matter if you park a non vintage rig with the club dedicated to vintage units. Is that right?

Leo also, you understand these things better than me.... How does a guy come from no where and become president of the club? I had always thought you start as 3rd VP and move up until it is your turn. I am very confused about this. Could you explain that to me(or us)?
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Old 07-08-2009, 06:19 AM   #101
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Leo, let me see if I am getting this right, for I am somewhat simple. You don't have to actually own a vintage rig to be in the VAC you just need to send in the $20. And because the VAC wants bodies in it's numbers, it does not matter if you park a non vintage rig with the club dedicated to vintage units. Is that right?

Leo also, you understand these things better than me.... How does a guy come from no where and become president of the club? I had always thought you start as 3rd VP and move up until it is your turn. I am very confused about this. Could you explain that to me(or us)?
Frank,
This right from the Internet...

The Vintage Airstream Club

Member - (WBCCI) Wally Byam Caravan Club International Member that owns a Recreational Vehicle Manufactured by Airstream that is 25 or more years old.

Associate - (WBCCI) Wally Byam Caravan Club International Member that owns a Recreational Vehicle Manufactured by Airstream that is 24 or less years old.

I do not onw a vintage unit, but I do believe you all have a legitimate gripe.
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Old 07-08-2009, 08:14 AM   #102
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Just keep sendin the money for the dues. Seems like you guys will never learn. IF Everyone withhold your dues money and see what kind of action ya get.See how long it takes for the higherups to realize there aint no money for them to FREE CAMP ON. This is just my opinion that I am intitled too. The club will never see me as a member as long as they are allowed to MAKE UP THE RULES AS THEY GO.Wally would turn over in his grave if he could see whats happened to his Caravan Club. From everything I have read ,he loved people and making friends, and loved campin,not Politics and Militurisum.
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:54 AM   #103
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... it was actually never Wally's club.

Leo, how did the rules and bylaws change without a vote by the members? We had to vote on something as stupid as weather a forum could be made. Why can bylaws be changed without a vote?

And I still want to know how someone goes becomes president of the club after just one term in office.
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Old 07-08-2009, 10:09 AM   #104
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People make mistakes

Leo,
To my knowledge, nothing has changed in the VAC Constitution or By-Law since the Don Perry days back in 2000-2001. Also, per the Constitution it takes a vote of 2/3rds or better to change the Constitution and I’ve never heard of any voting ever going on within the VAC.
As for parking of “non-vintage” units in the VAC parking area at International, it appears it has become more of a year-by-year decision based on which way the winds are blowing at the time. There should be a “hard-n-fast” rule in regards to this issue, if not you have problems arise like it did this past year. If the rule is, “there are no rules”, that’s fine to, just make that the “rule” and be done with it. I personally think, if you allow rigs newer than 25yrs to park in the vintage area, then the question becomes “What’s the point of having VINTAGE (VAC) parking in the first place?”
It looks to me what happened is simple:
“You had people who are “Regular” members (owning vintage rigs or owns a vintage rig and decided not to bring it to International) of the VAC that came to the International Rally from a Region or Unit. Along with them they have friends who are “Associate” members (not owning vintage rigs) from the same Region or Unit area that wanted to park along with their friends. And that’s what they did.”
Now the question becomes, is there a rule allowing or not allowing this to happen? But that is still “not the point”.
The point is this:
You have a person that was elected to the 2ndVP spot of the VAC. Because the 1stVP decided to “step-down” in that role, “Based on the VAC Constitution” the 2ndVP is then suppose to move up to the 1stVP spot, this did not happen for some reason and the VAC Constitution was “not” followed. The person whom was by-passed some would say has done more for the WBCCI and the VAC than any other member to get people to join the VAC, between the VAP, vintage caravans, Unit President of one of the largest Unit (made up of over 70% vintage rigs) always talking about how great club the WBCCI/VAC is to be a part of, etc… even to the point of joking about naming his new-born son “Wally”. So, if this had been you and after heading a caravan of “VINTAGE”10 trailers halfway across the USA to the International Rally, telling them the whole way how great it’s going to be, then to be stuck out to the side while “new” trailers are parked in the main VAC area to allows their friends to hang-out together and being told by the uppers, “That is how it goes” and “If you are upset, it is your problem, not mine” I can understand the rub.
People make mistakes, when you do, stuck it up and say you are sorry for the people you offended! No one is perfect, thus the reason for the words “Sorry, I screwed up, I’ll try my best not to let it happen again”.
The reason why we have a VAC Constitution is to prevent things like this from happening; either follow it or throw it in the trash and let every man fend for himself.
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Old 07-08-2009, 11:02 AM   #105
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I rejoined WBCCI solely to be part of the rocking WDCU. I'll support my local camping club and enjoy rallying with them whenever possible. I'll definitely contribute to anything that keeps PeeWee active as a guest at any WDCU rally whether I can be there or not.

I doubt that I will ever go to an International. I really don't want to sink into the seemingly endless mire of politics and people milking the IBC's treasury for free camping while failing to serve the needs of the membership at large. HOWEVER, if there's a WDCU or forums rally happening the same week as the international you can bet I'll be spending my time, energy and money there instead.

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Old 07-08-2009, 10:39 PM   #106
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Parking,

Hmm, the VAC Prez, Veeps, had NO control over the parking situation on the grass. There were also a number of VAC rigs that showed up without prior reservations at the pre rally. So, its a little tough to plan for more spaces when you don't know your total numbers! The WBCCI Parking Committee had issues of their own and they were confused which added to this mess. There were already newer airstreams parked on the grass before we got there. Who they were, who knows? The area of grass that was NOT used closest to the pavement was not used for a good reason:::, it was prone to flooding during heavy downpours.
Majority of trailers parked on the grass were 30 amp, except for the back row against the trees was 3 amp.

The vagrant in the tent on site was an Alliant Event Center issue, not WBCCI.

Happy Hour:

If the fair was small and unsatisfying, what was your contribution? If nothing, there is no room to complain.

Kid Entertainment.

Teasing other members pets is NOT entertainment. If I did that as a kid 40 years ago, my Dad would have planted me!!

General Meeting.

Discussion was put forth to the general membership who showed up, about updating the VAC constitution and bylaws to conform with the main WBCCI constitution and bylaws. Membership had a vote. This update was previously published and available. This is a requirement of "constitutional housekeeping" that must occur every few years.

Officers:

Members have the right to nominate candidates from the floor.

Parking in the grass;

Pee Wee was representing the WDCU and was on the grass. And, Michael DePraida, the "Tee shirt Vendor, WDCU member was on the GRASS, in his mid to late 90's model Excella

A whole lot of whining here, any of us could have been parked on pavement.

Less bugs comes with less grass and a cleaner rig.
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:02 AM   #107
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Ya Leo, it was great seeing you!!, Mostly, this last meeting was to update our bylaws etc, to conform with WBCCI. Mostly, this meeting was to clarify what each VAC office position duties are. We had to conform with HQ's in all respects.

Leo, the bottom line is, the VAC Officers have NO power, NO vote with IBT, and aren't invited to the winter IBT. Have no real meaningful discussions with the IBT. VAC Officers are just volunteer figureheads. We are a club within the MAIN club. WBCCI has the reins, and VAC has no say where we park .its all up to the WBCCI, they can choose to no longer have a vintage section. It nice they allow us some latitude to do so, its good PR. We are all airstreamers and that's it. Some of us just happen to have older trailers and motorhomes and thats great to keep the vintage rigs on the road.
We stopped in Gillette on the way home to see what the Camplex was about. Totally awesome venue with full hookups for the masses with 15,30,50 amp shore power, water and sewer. Around trip driving day for each to and from Devil's Tower, the Black Hills, Mt Rushmore, Custer State Park, Sturgis, Deadwood, Lead, South Dakota.
Heading west, an hour and 1/2 to Sheridan, Wyo where at King Western Saddlery is a museum attached to the store with decades of western art, fire arms, tack etc on display.
The BigHorns are not too far as well.

Gillette, the sharpest town in the West!!
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Old 07-09-2009, 05:14 AM   #108
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Parking,

Hmm, the VAC Prez, Veeps, had NO control over the parking situation on the grass. There were also a number of VAC rigs that showed up without prior reservations at the pre rally. So, its a little tough to plan for more spaces when you don't know your total numbers! The WBCCI Parking Committee had issues of their own and they were confused which added to this mess. There were already newer airstreams parked on the grass before we got there. Who they were, who knows? The area of grass that was NOT used closest to the pavement was not used for a good reason:::, it was prone to flooding during heavy downpours.
Majority of trailers parked on the grass were 30 amp, except for the back row against the trees was 3 amp.

The new Airstreams were placed by Airstream. There were three of them. One was a "B" van and no one slept in it ever. Another was used for three days.


The vagrant in the tent on site was an Alliant Event Center issue, not WBCCI.

Either was the warning of numerous thefts that took place. It was nice to informed of that right after getting out of the truck.


Happy Hour:

If the fair was small and unsatisfying, what was your contribution? If nothing, there is no room to complain.

This is what I contributed, twice...
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it took an hour and a half to prepare. I also served aged cheddar with apple slices and grapes one evening. The rest of the time I was out seeing Wisconsin. Opening a bag of chips is about as lame as it gets. A little caring could be involved.

Kid Entertainment.

Teasing other members pets is NOT entertainment. If I did that as a kid 40 years ago, my Dad would have planted me!!

There was zero entertainment for the kids. Nothing for them to do. How hard would it have been to rent a moon bounce or something similar? The youth activities all required a parent to drive them somewhere so one was better off going on their own schedule. As far as teasing someone's dog, I never saw any of that. To be honest, I left my dog at home. I think a rally is not the proper place for a dog.


General Meeting.

Discussion was put forth to the general membership who showed up, about updating the VAC constitution and bylaws to conform with the main WBCCI constitution and bylaws. Membership had a vote. This update was previously published and available. This is a requirement of "constitutional housekeeping" that must occur every few years.

Maybe more of the general membership might have shown up had they know that the bylaws were going to be changed. The update might have been published, but it was never made available to me or anyone I know.

Officers:

Members have the right to nominate candidates from the floor.

Do they also have the right to bump someone out of the lineup? Do they have the right to insert a candidate into 1st VP that has not served previously? This took place and was not a decision of the general membership, it was done within the top tiers of the clubs leadership. This was a clear violation of the bylaws of the club. This needs to be corrected right away and in a serious way.

Parking in the grass;

Pee Wee was representing the WDCU and was on the grass. And, Michael DePraida, the "Tee shirt Vendor, WDCU member was on the GRASS, in his mid to late 90's model Excella

There were also other WDCU members you forgot to mention that were camped on the grass. None of them came with us on the caravan. Many member chose our unit over being a MAL. You see we are a progressive unit that allows online voting and does not require people to be there in person. This option works well for those people full timing like Michael and many others. Pee Wee is a WDCU honorary lifetime member. We are able to recognize what he has done for the club as a whole. I personally flew him in so everyone could enjoy the experience of learning from his travels and life experiences. He lived with me for four days while we caravanned out to Madison. I took care of making sure he had everything he needed during that time and while he was at the rally. Airstream spotted a trailer for him in the Vintage section at his request so he could be a part of the club and be accessible to everyone.

A whole lot of whining here, any of us could have been parked on pavement.

What would you know, you were on the grass...

Less bugs comes with less grass and a cleaner rig.
You could have moved, but then you would not have been with the club.
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:12 AM   #109
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Frank, I knew this would be a mess making any kind of response. YOur complaint should be sent to WBCCI HQ since they were the ones who determined where and how many 3 amps were to be placed. With resignations of previously mentioned VAC VEEP set the stage for Scott to be thrust into where he is. Shari Davis also had a similar set of circumstances, for which she had her bitchy complaints tossed at her.
The rally is what you make of it, and choices were made to be miserable, no one can help that.
I am sorry, but to get this club to change we need all participants to participate to facilitate it and whining and crying and photograph taking to make a point isn't it.
Mr Baker choose not to climb the ladder of the Veeps. A Veep resigned last year and he should have moved up. But he chose not to. And if he were to have moved up this year, he already had said he wasn't going to Gillette. So, how do you fill this vaccuum? The next one in line?? If you have never been to an International, how the heck are you are going to have the experience to plan or lead?
YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO GET VOLUNTEERS TO BE AN OFFICER?? AND TAKE THIS KIND OF NONSENSE FROM OUR OWN????? Some of us sat with Shari Davis in Perry 2 years after the IBT lit into her while she was in tears for no fault of her own..
Come on, we are Airstreamers with old and new trailers. Wally would have not tolerated this crap. Caveat: The club was not Wally's nor his idea.
Why not stand up and join in and volunteer to be a parcipating member of the club and help make some improvements.

With the cost of the Alliant Center, generators, pipes for water etc, this rally in Madison ran in the hole big time. We nned many more than we had to break even. When we went trailering when I was a kid, my parents would never have conceived the idea of having us kids entertained. We brought our own, cards, Jarts, walked the dog, looked for interesting rocks, bugs, etc. We played and had a great time and didn't have water slide, or air mattress to jump on. That part of the problem, kids don't know how to entertain themselves.

And yes, we had to tell some kids several times to stop harrassing our dogs. I don't know who they belonged to (parents not around), and I could have taken photos too, but didn't. It wasn't worth my time and effort. I had better things to do with me time.

Remember also, that it was not too long ago, that Internationals had no water, no sewer, no power to the rally. These are Airstreams and fully self contained.

Try Gillette, everyone will be even with the same kind of site for every Airstream. No fooling, there are over 1600 identical sites. Fleetwood was just there. The Camplex is Campbell County's fairgrounds.
We stopped and checked it out after leaving Madison.
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:28 AM   #110
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Negative

Excuse me but I was offered to move up to 1st VP last year and accepted it saying how great it would be to be WDCU President one year and VAC President the next.. however, I was recalled to Active Duty as a LtCol in the Marine Corps.. which took precident over last year's Bozeman Rally.. I was signed up to go... since I was asked to move up and said yes, I thought (since I was not there due to Active Duty) that I would be 1st VP and was going to be at Madison.. that I'd be 1st VP... hell I even told numerous people I would be.... and if I was Pres while in Gillette, I would have definately been there... as a VAC VP, I never knew Scott was put ahead of me from no where until the entire membership got the notice (you'd think as a VP I would have been asked about Scott but "No" I wasn't)... so when you all found out that Scott was 1st VP and I was 2nd... that is when found out as well... I know it's all about never attending an International.. but seriously.. I've thrown numerous rallies and as a Naval Academy grad and Marine, I think I could have handled the task at hand... So, Thanks Paul for the support... I have lived and breathed WBCCI for the past 9 years...just ask my wife Zoe'

But since I was treated like I was (not even the respect to let me know Scott was moving ahead as a VP on the board), and people felt the way they do about International attendance, I felt not part of the VAC team and don't feel like it myself.... and knowing a trip to Gillette for not feeling like I belong, I asked myself "Why do I want to spend $2000 for a trip where people could care less about the rules and respect" so YES - I decided to step down... I guess it's all my "Mr. Baker" fault to begin with...

Have fun!

Rob

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Frank, I knew this would be a mess making any kind of response. With resignations of previously mentioned VAC VEEP set the stage for Scott to be thrust into where he is. Shari Davis also had a similar set of circumstances, for which she had her bitchy complaints tossed at her.
The rally is what you make of it, and choices were made to be miserable, no one can help that.
I am sorry, but to get this club to change we need all participants to participate to facilitate it and whining and crying and photograph taking to make a point isn't it.
Mr Baker choose not to climb the ladder of the Veeps. A Veep resigned last year and he should have moved up. But he chose not to. And if he were to have moved up this year, he already had said he wasn't going to Gillette. Sp, how do you fill this vaccuum? If you have never been to an International,. how the heck are you are going to have the experience lead?
YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO GET VOLUNTEERS TO BE AN OFFICER AND TAKE THIS KIND OF ABUSE FROM OUR OWN????? Some of us sat with Shari Davis in Perry 2 years after the IBT lit into her while she was in tear for no fault of her own..
Come on, we are Airstreamers with old and new trailers.
Why not stand up and join in and volunteer to be a parcipating member of the club and help make some improvements.


Remember also, that it was not too long ago, that Internationals had no water, no sewer, no power to the rally. These are Airstreams and fully self contained.

Sorry you had a bad time. Try Gillette, everyone will be even with the same kind of site for every Airstream.
We stopped and checked it out after leaving Madison.
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:48 AM   #111
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We stopped in Gillette on the way home to see what the Camplex was about. Totally awesome venue with full hookups for the masses with 15,30,50 amp shore power, water and sewer.
...but worth $500 for the week? not in my book.
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Old 07-09-2009, 09:01 AM   #112
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Happy Hour:

If the fair was small and unsatisfying, what was your contribution? If nothing, there is no room to complain.
We brought a huge BOSS Sub from the local COPPS that we sliced into about a dozen mini sandwiches... which was gone in 60 seconds the first night..

The second night we brought over baked (in our vintage oven) french bread pizza..

Another night we brough sliced Madison cheese and crackers...

After that I said, 'Why bother.. peopel aren't pulling their weight here"
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