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Old 07-22-2009, 07:39 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
At that point it is the Appeals Committee that is in control, and the EC7, the IP, should have respected the actions dictated by that Appeals Committee and followed them through. THAT did not happen...
Leo,

Well, let’s look at what the rules actually say. Section 4 of the bylaws, defining the appeals process, is quoted below.

Quote:
By Laws, Section 4 (Blue Book pp 13 – 14)

A. Any member who has been expelled or suspended from membership in the international club or in a unit thereof as provided in section 2 or in section 3 of this article may, at any time within thirty (30) days following such expulsion or suspension, file a written notice of appeal with the WBCCI Board of Trustees. Such notice shall state with particularity the errors relied upon for reversal of the decision on such expulsion or suspension and may contain a demand for a hearing.

B. Upon receipt of a notice of appeal, it shall be the duty of the President of the WBCCI to appoint a hearing board composed of three members of the board of trustees, one of whom he shall name chairman.

C. The hearing board so appointed, in any case on which a hearing has not been demanded, shall mail to the complainant a copy of the said notice of appeal advising that he may file with it, at any time within fifteen (15) days, any written record of the proceedings against the accused member and any other written documents which he wishes the hearing board to consider. Upon the expiration of such fifteen (15) day period, the hearing board shall proceed to render a final judgment based upon the written record as presented to it. Such judgment shall be in writing and shall be in the form of a resolution.

D. In any case in which a hearing has been demanded, the hearing board shall schedule a date and place for such hearing and the accused member and the complainant shall be given at least thirty (30) days prior written notice of the date and place of such hearing and they shall be notified that they and their witnesses may present relevant testimony and file relevant documents in support of their positions.

E. At any such hearing, equal time shall be accorded the accused member and the complainant and each shall be entitled to question the other and his witnesses.

F. Upon conclusion of any such hearing, the hearing board, by resolution, shall render a judgment in writing based upon the written record and upon the evidence presented to it at such hearing. Such judgment may affirm, overrule or modify any judgment previously taken on the complaint and any such judgment so rendered shall be final and conclusive.

G. Any member expelled or suspended as provided in section 2 and 3 hereof who fails to file an appeal within the time herein stated, shall be deemed expelled or suspended, as the case may be, when such time shall have expired.
This clearly says that the Hearing Board (it’s Hearing Board, not Appeals Committee, by the way) . . . “can affirm, overturn, or modify any judgment previously taken on the complaint”.

I don’t see anywhere it says “at that point it is the Appeals Committee that is in control”, do you?

Nor do I see anyplace where it says that the Hearing Board can order anything published by anybody. Do you?

Now I must admit, I’m not a lawyer—or more to the point, a judge—with ability to read “emanations and penumbras” into laws to make them mean whatever they want them to mean. Maybe you have that ability?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
The reversal of one grievance, and the dismissal of the second, had nothing to do with one another. The second was denied purely on technical grounds, period.
Leo, do you think a few thousand emails and phone calls raising hell about Bob Thompson’s suspension, might, just might have made the Ethics and Grievance Committee and the EC7 a bit more cautious in dealing with the grievance against you? I kinda think so.

Granted, the fact that your written filing came on the letterhead of some ogre law firm ready and willing to rip out WBCCI’s living guts undoubtedly had a good bit to do with it. Fortunately, your lawyers are already up to speed on WBCCI so they’re undoubtedly ready to roll the Panzers on a moment’s notice against this year’s grievance. I’ll keep an eye out for a column of tanks heading across I-70 for Jackson Center.

Frankly, I’m getting mighty tired of endlessly hearing about this and every other bit of WBCCI petty politics. I haven’t decided yet whether to delete my bookmark for Airforums, let my WBCCI membership lapse, or both.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:42 AM   #156
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Tom,

Sorry about my testy response to your post last night. I hadn't noticed you were a newbie to Airstream Forums. Welcome to the forums and hope you get a more welcoming response to subsequent posts.

Nuvi
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:47 AM   #157
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shouldn't the club just be about having fun?

Can't we all just camp? Can't we all just get along? There is probably a rule against that...
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:25 AM   #158
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It would seem to me that everyone's position and opinion have been stated and restated, ad nauseum. The continuation of this fray is inexplicable, in my opinion, other than in the context of people simply liking to fight.
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:39 AM   #159
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It seems to have the fascination of watching a train wreck in slow motion.

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Old 07-22-2009, 10:43 AM   #160
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This issue is DARN NEAR A YEAR OLD and ancient history by now. How about letting sleeping dogs lie?
It was very nice of Nuvite to apologize. As for the above statement, there is no statute of limitations on an apology. If a person has been wronged, they are owed an apology. Period. This is a moral obligation which is not obviated by time, distance, bureaucractic rules or organizational blame shifting.

I have no interest in the inner workings of the WBCCI. I don't know if Bob Thompson feels owed an apology. Here's the thing... until he gets one, there's a possibility people will keep talking. And while this might seem to serve no purpose, it does. Societies and culture enforce moral norms in two ways: admiration and shame. We generally embrace people who "do good." We generally shun people who "do bad." I understand this will provoke people who think we wrongly celebrate celebrity, etc., but consider this. What generally is the most common reaction to hitting a child in public? To telling a racist or sexist or homophobic joke? To leering or whistling at a woman? Actions that were socially acceptable 50 years ago are not socially acceptable now. It's not that we passed a law... mores changed and were enforced through admiration and/or shame.

Talking about someone (or an organization) that hasn't apologized is a form of social sanction. Reputation suffers. While admittedly an imperfect process, this is what makes civil society "civil." And if people "go on" to the point where the reaction to a perceived slight seems overwrought, well, then society sanctions those people for "not getting over it."

So it goes.
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:39 PM   #161
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They won't be getting my $500 for Gillette...
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Old 07-26-2009, 01:56 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
Uh, Tom. . .

A few points. . .
  1. This issue is DARN NEAR A YEAR OLD and ancient history by now. How about letting sleeping dogs lie?
  2. Jerry Larson isn't president of the WBCCI any more. Perhaps you heard the WBCCI just had an International Rally and installed new officers. (The International also gave people who are inclined to bitch a whole new set of issues to bitch about.)
  3. And finally, the Hearing Board had the authority to uphold or reverse Bob Thompson's suspension, but aside from that, NO AUTHORITY TO ORDER ANYBODY TO DO ANYTHING.
To briefly review these year-old issues, a WBCCI past president filed grievances against Bob Thompson, Region 1 President and Leo G arvey, Metro NY Unit President, for what most perceived to be political reasons.

The Ethics and Grievance committee suspended Bob Thompson and this set off a firestorm of protests from the membership. Realizing the disciplinary action was a mistake, then-WBCCI president Jerry Larson, in what I think was a statesmanlike move, appointed a Hearing Board of three trustees who could be expected to overturn the suspension, which they did.

Section 4 of the Bylaws gives the Hearing Board this power, and no other. I think it was nice of the Hearing Board to include an apology in their written opinion, but they had no authority to order it be published or anything else.

Chastened by the Bob Thompson outcome, the Ethics and Grievance committee wisely decided to dismiss the grievance against Leo G arvey, and at that point the case was closed.

So this whole Bob Thompson--No Apology thread has never had any legal or factual basis, and it's time to lay it to rest.
Actually it needs to continue until the apologists' for the power structure stop making excuses for the bad manners of others. This was and is part of an ongoing struggle.

Charter One: New England Unit (Region 1) officers denied admission to International in Georgia because of the campaigning of a few well placed individual members. Some no doubt jealous of the success of the NEU.

Charter Two: Bob Thompson suspended just as the Region 1 rally, which he put together, was getting started in PEI. He is a NEU member.

Charter Three: The VAC's recent actions at International on behalf of the IBT, the treatment of the WDCU and Mr Baker. Another "too" successful unit.

The forum makes public what the "leadership" wants behind closed doors.

Attendance will be down alot more next year.
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:27 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Nuvite-F [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Harriet/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]
1.Uh, Tom. . .


2.And finally, the Hearing Board had the authority to uphold or reverse Bob Thompson's suspension, but aside from that, NO AUTHORITY TO ORDER ANYBODY TO DO ANYTHING.

Section 4 of the Bylaws gives the Hearing Board this power, and no other. I think it was nice of the Hearing Board to include an apology in their written opinion, but they had no authority to order it be published or anything else.

Wrong!!!

Sec. 4. F. Upon conclusion of any such hearing, the hearing board, by resolution, shall render a judgmentin writing based upon the written record and upon the evidence presented to it at such hearing. Such judgment may affirm, overrule or modify any judgment previously taken on the complaint and any such judgment so rendered shall be final and conclusive.

Thus the Appeals Board did in fact have full authority to order it's Judgment to be
Published in the BB. Also read the fine print in the RONR and it Supports the Boards action and decisions (Judgment).

So this whole Bob Thompson--No Apology thread has never had any legal or factual basis, and it's time to lay it to rest.


If you are an attorney, go back to law school, if not don’t attempt to practice law with a license. As to the facts, it is suggested you read the other Bob Thompson thread or read SaveWally.org on the same subject. Bob is only part of the story. There are others and the problem continues.
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