That wasn't sent in your direction specifically. Yet confused you might be -- maybe you took a wrong turn?
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Bob Thompson - no apology
By the way -- there are great people, and great units down there in Louisiana. I've had the opportunity to hang with them on multiple occasions. No one should be deterred down there in LA -- the WBCCI is alive and well...
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No, it was meant for me, and I took no wrong turns. You can sales puff the WBCCI all you want but I will post my experience as I see fit. Yes you are correct about the Louisiana unit, I just stated it had no benefit for me.
__________________ "If a man does not have an ideal and try to live up to it, then he becomes a mean, base and sordid creature, no matter how successful." Letter to his son Kermit, quoted in Theodore Roosevelt by Joseph Bucklin Bishop, 1915
As you all know Bob T was to have his dismissal and apology published in the Blue Beret.
Jerry Larson decided to over rule that direct order and findings of the committee will not be publishing citing confidentiality.
I hate to say here we go again but.................
Question can/should IP not follow the directive?
The EGC was aware of the bylaws and Roberts rules when directing the club to publish the memo, they had to know their order directing the publication would negate the confidentiality clause.
Should we email/call to ask Mr Larson to reconsider his position.
Ask Larson to reconsider? Why ask?
I'd say the entire WBCCI membership should DEMAND that the apology is made as originally DIRECTED by the committee.
What don't they understand about what should be a SIMPLE ruling?
What does this current leadership hope to gain by operating in the dark and not following SIMPLE directives? Maybe they don't want to publicly ADMIT they were in error to begin with when they suspended Bob and Harriet Thompson? Maybe they want to set precedent that they don't have to follow any ruling by any committee? Maybe they can look back and say, "Well, in Thompson's case we decided to more or less ignore the grievance committee and no one said a word so let's continue to do that into the future. After all, now we have *precedent* set." Maybe? Let's hope not, but ... you never know what lurks in other peoples deep-rooted thinking and their reasons why they act like they do.
Could it be that the leaders are trying to do whatever they please as long as they are themselves satisified they've done their best as far as they are concerned? I don't know if our club can afford to wait out all those in line that currently hold power over the masses. How long can clubs run a deficit budget before all the money in the bank is gone? Let's hope not ... but you never know now do you.
Operating in the sunshine so everyone can see and UNDERSTAND they why's and what-for's without question really IS a good policy for everyone don't you think?
I'd say the entire WBCCI membership should DEMAND that the apology is made as originally DIRECTED by the committee.
What don't they understand about what should be a SIMPLE ruling?
Tom M
Uh, Tom. . .
A few points. . .
This issue is DARN NEAR A YEAR OLD and ancient history by now. How about letting sleeping dogs lie?
Jerry Larson isn't president of the WBCCI any more. Perhaps you heard the WBCCI just had an International Rally and installed new officers. (The International also gave people who are inclined to bitch a whole new set of issues to bitch about.)
And finally, the Hearing Board had the authority to uphold or reverse Bob Thompson's suspension, but aside from that, NO AUTHORITY TO ORDER ANYBODY TO DO ANYTHING.
To briefly review these year-old issues, a WBCCI past president filed grievances against Bob Thompson, Region 1 President and Leo G arvey, Metro NY Unit President, for what most perceived to be political reasons.
The Ethics and Grievance committee suspended Bob Thompson and this set off a firestorm of protests from the membership. Realizing the disciplinary action was a mistake, then-WBCCI president Jerry Larson, in what I think was a statesmanlike move, appointed a Hearing Board of three trustees who could be expected to overturn the suspension, which they did.
Section 4 of the Bylaws gives the Hearing Board this power, and no other. I think it was nice of the Hearing Board to include an apology in their written opinion, but they had no authority to order it be published or anything else.
Chastened by the Bob Thompson outcome, the Ethics and Grievance committee wisely decided to dismiss the grievance against Leo G arvey, and at that point the case was closed.
So this whole Bob Thompson--No Apology thread has never had any legal or factual basis, and it's time to lay it to rest.
Pardon me, a few clarifications if you don't mind...
The Ethics and Grievance Committee suspends no one. The EGC makes its recommendations to the Executive Committee (EC7), and that body passes judgement. The IP sits on the EC7 and for arguments sake, holds THREE votes on that committee, by what we all know are his choices for Int. Rec. Sec., and Int. Treas.
It is the accused that has the right to an appeal, and our bylaws states that the IP will choose that committee from within the ranks of the Region Presidents. If the membership was unaware of what had happened, my belief is those chosen for that committee would have been different, and the appeals outcome would have been different. Again, all my opinion. But with such turmoil caused by the decision, a wise IP would have innocently chosen a committee that just might likely go easier on the accused. I don't think anyone expected the Appeals Committee to go so far in the opposite direction as to break the rubber band.
At that point it is the Appeals Committee that is in control, and the EC7, the IP, should have respected the actions dictated by that Appeals Committee and followed them through. THAT did not happen...
The reversal of one grievance, and the dismissal of the second, had nothing to do with one another. The second was denied purely on technical grounds, period.
The apology should have taken place, and there are enough members that are still keenly aware of what actions were ignored, that the EC7, even though it now has three new members, is still not trusted by many. It's that ruling bodies motives and agenda that is repeatedly called into question, and it would be wise for them to not only operate under sunshine laws, but to make any necessary corrections that they feel should have been made in the past.
Make no mistake about it, the IP controls what does and does not happen during the course of the year. We see different agendas and ideologies (if it can get that deep) every year the guard changes...
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At that point it is the Appeals Committee that is in control, and the EC7, the IP, should have respected the actions dictated by that Appeals Committee and followed them through. THAT did not happen...
Leo,
Well, let’s look at what the rules actually say. Section 4 of the bylaws, defining the appeals process, is quoted below.
Quote:
By Laws, Section 4 (Blue Book pp 13 – 14)
A. Any member who has been expelled or suspended from membership in the international club or in a unit thereof as provided in section 2 or in section 3 of this article may, at any time within thirty (30) days following such expulsion or suspension, file a written notice of appeal with the WBCCI Board of Trustees. Such notice shall state with particularity the errors relied upon for reversal of the decision on such expulsion or suspension and may contain a demand for a hearing.
B. Upon receipt of a notice of appeal, it shall be the duty of the President of the WBCCI to appoint a hearing board composed of three members of the board of trustees, one of whom he shall name chairman.
C. The hearing board so appointed, in any case on which a hearing has not been demanded, shall mail to the complainant a copy of the said notice of appeal advising that he may file with it, at any time within fifteen (15) days, any written record of the proceedings against the accused member and any other written documents which he wishes the hearing board to consider. Upon the expiration of such fifteen (15) day period, the hearing board shall proceed to render a final judgment based upon the written record as presented to it. Such judgment shall be in writing and shall be in the form of a resolution.
D. In any case in which a hearing has been demanded, the hearing board shall schedule a date and place for such hearing and the accused member and the complainant shall be given at least thirty (30) days prior written notice of the date and place of such hearing and they shall be notified that they and their witnesses may present relevant testimony and file relevant documents in support of their positions.
E. At any such hearing, equal time shall be accorded the accused member and the complainant and each shall be entitled to question the other and his witnesses.
F. Upon conclusion of any such hearing, the hearing board, by resolution, shall render a judgment in writing based upon the written record and upon the evidence presented to it at such hearing. Such judgment may affirm, overrule or modify any judgment previously taken on the complaint and any such judgment so rendered shall be final and conclusive.
G. Any member expelled or suspended as provided in section 2 and 3 hereof who fails to file an appeal within the time herein stated, shall be deemed expelled or suspended, as the case may be, when such time shall have expired.
This clearly says that the Hearing Board (it’s Hearing Board, not Appeals Committee, by the way) . . . “can affirm, overturn, or modify any judgment previously taken on the complaint”.
I don’t see anywhere it says “at that point it is the Appeals Committee that is in control”, do you?
Nor do I see anyplace where it says that the Hearing Board can order anything published by anybody. Do you?
Now I must admit, I’m not a lawyer—or more to the point, a judge—with ability to read “emanations and penumbras” into laws to make them mean whatever they want them to mean. Maybe you have that ability?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
The reversal of one grievance, and the dismissal of the second, had nothing to do with one another. The second was denied purely on technical grounds, period.
Leo, do you think a few thousand emails and phone calls raising hell about Bob Thompson’s suspension, might, just might have made the Ethics and Grievance Committee and the EC7 a bit more cautious in dealing with the grievance against you? I kinda think so.
Granted, the fact that your written filing came on the letterhead of some ogre law firm ready and willing to rip out WBCCI’s living guts undoubtedly had a good bit to do with it. Fortunately, your lawyers are already up to speed on WBCCI so they’re undoubtedly ready to roll the Panzers on a moment’s notice against this year’s grievance. I’ll keep an eye out for a column of tanks heading across I-70 for Jackson Center.
Frankly, I’m getting mighty tired of endlessly hearing about this and every other bit of WBCCI petty politics. I haven’t decided yet whether to delete my bookmark for Airforums, let my WBCCI membership lapse, or both.
Sorry about my testy response to your post last night. I hadn't noticed you were a newbie to Airstream Forums. Welcome to the forums and hope you get a more welcoming response to subsequent posts.
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