Bill, why assume that officers need to travel thousands of miles and rent million dollar facilities for the club to conduct it's business meetings? For years now, technology has allowed folks from all over the world to "connect" and make decisions. In our own Vintage Airstream realm, the three guys that do the Vintage Airstream Podcast, have done so without the need to be sitting in the same room. They did the first three years of bi-weekly shows without having ever met face to face.
How about if the club thinks about conducting the business meetings in a manner that includes those of us who do not have unlimited time to participate... and leave the travel and the rallies for the purpose of, as PeeWee says they were meant to be, "to simply have fun"
Those officers should get to have some fun too.
Steve,
I thought that we were discussing the VAC officers and the need for the VAC officers to attend the International Rally. I will be the first to agree that it is not a fun rally but a business meeting, and I tell that to everyone who asks me about the International. I also tell them that, in my opinion, the best part is the VAC parade, VAC parking and seeing and meeting members who we have only know as writing on a computer monitor.
Although virtual meetings may work in some cases, there is no substitution for "face time". (Just look at the issues with the 2nd VAC VP this year in that, it appears, the decisions made in Bozeman were not adequately explained to him. This may have been avoided in face to face discussion.) We certainly don't want the meetings to be held in such a way that the members are unable to listen and participate.
Comparing what should be similar to a public company conference call (the IBT and delegates seminars and meetings) to a pod cast is not a valid comparison, in my opinion. I believe that the best comparison of the International Rally to the business world is the annual stockholders meeting. How many of those are virtual?
Bill
__________________
Bill Kerfoot, WBCCI/VAC/CAC/El Camino Real Unit #5223
Just my personal opinion
1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon, 1977 Lincoln Continental
1979 23' Safari, and 1954 29' Double Door Liner Orange, CA
Steve, I thought that we were discussing the VAC officers and the need for the VAC officers to attend the International Rally.
We are… my point is, that if the business of the club was conducted in such a way that would not require attendance at the International, we would see more folks willing to participate in the Governance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkerfoot
I will be the first to agree that it is not a fun rally but a business meeting, and I tell that to everyone who asks me about the International. I also tell them that, in my opinion, the best part is the VAC parade, VAC parking and seeing and meeting members who we have only know as writing on a computer monitor.
Why would anyone want their clubs premier event of the year be one that the membership says “is not a fun rally but a business meeting.” It should be an event that promotes and showcases the best the club has to offer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkerfoot
Although virtual meetings may work in some cases, there is no substitution for "face time". (Just look at the issues with the 2nd VAC VP this year in that, it appears, the decisions made in Bozeman were not adequately explained to him. This may have been avoided in face to face discussion.)
My take is the exact opposite. I think that if ALL discussions were transparent and recorded to be viewed and reviewed at anytime we would have avoided this miscommunication. It was due to the fact that decisions were made in private face to face conversations held with only part of the concerned parties in attendance that we ended up with the circumstances we did. Not to mention the fact that the by-laws were completely side-stepped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkerfoot
Comparing what should be similar to a public company conference call (the IBT and delegates seminars and meetings) to a pod cast is not a valid comparison, in my opinion. I believe that the best comparison of the International Rally to the business world is the annual stockholders meeting. How many of those are virtual? Bill
I didn’t offer it as a comparison, but only as an example of the technology available. These days, most Governmental bodies offer live and/or delayed viewing of their regular proceedings. For a club whose membership is spread across all of North America, I think to not take advantage of present technology to facilitate wider participation in Governance of the club would be detrimental to its future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkerfoot
I believe that the best comparison of the International Rally to the business world is the annual stockholders meeting. How many of those are virtual?
I would agree that the scale may be similar, but most stockholders do not actively participate in the activities of the Corporation. In the case of the WBCCI, participation of the “stockholders” is what we are all about.
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I appreciate your willingness to put yourself forward to discuss these issues in a public forum for all to see and participate. Some may see these comments as being critical of the club and use them as a reason to not join. I offer them as my opinions regarding what is needed to focus our efforts and resources on what makes this club great – its members.
Bill, as you wrote… “I tell that to everyone who asks… the best part is… seeing and meeting members.” – I agree!
If you require attendence at a series of rallies held in various parts of the country at varied times of the year, you are effectively reserving all offices for the retired.
There is nothing wrong with being retired, and being retired should not disqualify one from office. But should it be the pre-eminant qualification?
If you require attendence at a series of rallies held in various parts of the country at varied times of the year, you are effectively reserving all offices for the retired.
There is nothing wrong with being retired, and being retired should not disqualify one from office. But should it be the pre-eminant qualification?
Redshed,
The VAC requires that certain officers attend the International Rally. Which is held only once each year. The location is different each year.
Bill
__________________
Bill Kerfoot, WBCCI/VAC/CAC/El Camino Real Unit #5223
Just my personal opinion
1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon, 1977 Lincoln Continental
1979 23' Safari, and 1954 29' Double Door Liner Orange, CA
If you require attendence at a series of rallies held in various parts of the country at varied times of the year, you are effectively reserving all offices for the retired.
There is nothing wrong with being retired, and being retired should not disqualify one from office. But should it be the pre-eminant qualification?
It's true that being retired does free one (or at least some) for service in not-for-profit work, but it's also true that virtuality is not some automatic cure for the non-retired. My staffpeople used to work tirelessly to try to set up meetings (virtual or otherwise) with different people within the same university, and people's schedules would often delay things for days or weeks. Now imagine arranging for a virtual meeting with people from all over the continent with all kinds of different demands on their time (and all kinds of technology available to them, from primitive to advanced). I wouldn't want to be the one to make the arrangements!
The VAC requires that certain officers attend the International Rally. Which is held only once each year. The location is different each year.
Bill
Oh I understand that. Had understood that WBCCI nominating cmmte expected candidates to attend International for several years running, as well as the midwinter meeting. Perhaps I have it wrong.
Had understood that WBCCI nominating cmmte expected candidates to attend International for several years running, as well as the midwinter meeting. Perhaps I have it wrong.
No, you have that right... Missing the Boseman International (due to being called up for Active Military duty) was the excuse given for the VAC board violating the by-laws and "inserting" a new 1st V.P. ahead of Rob Baker.
Rob hauled his three young boys and his pregnant wife half way across the country to be at this International... but I guess that was not enough.
Now imagine arranging for a virtual meeting with people from all over the continent with all kinds of different demands on their time (and all kinds of technology available to them, from primitive to advanced). I wouldn't want to be the one to make the arrangements!
Lynn,
I realize it would not be a simple task, but certainly much easier and much cheaper than renting a multi-million dollar convention center and feeding 400 volunteers for several weeks.
I realize it would not be a simple task, but certainly much easier and much cheaper than renting a multi-million dollar convention center and feeding 400 volunteers for several weeks.
But don't you see this as symptomatic of the dialog here? The IBT spends far too much money on meetings, and the only alternative is a virtual meeting?
Lynn
I realize it would not be a simple task, but certainly much easier and much cheaper than renting a multi-million dollar convention center and feeding 400 volunteers for several weeks.
Airstream could design a virtual AirStream to go along with the virtual WBCCI. WBCCI could develop a roll playing game to add fun. As you progressed up the political ladder and made friends you could chose your parking spots, grass or non grass, type of flags your are allowed to fly, and the proper dress for meetings. As you gained power you would be allowed to file grievances against those who you don’t like and have manipulation power. Of course the game would be overpriced, not deliver what is promised, have a no warranty, be full of defects and have the plastic peeling off of the package. Coming to a Game Stop near you.
I really do get a kick out of all the non-member postings here - it's actually pretty funny, and yet sad at the same time.
For the basic price of admission, you should be able to find a decent unit to hang with. That has a lot of value. If you're out using your Airstream, then being in the mere presence of other local Airstream owners advances your ownership value.
Even if you can't find that great local unit, there are so many pluses to membership that the cost of membership is negligible. That is, if you can ever get yourself away from your keyboard, and actually get out there and do something.
Members get great value out of the camaraderie of the club. Courtesy Parking, Airstream Parks, more than 500 rallies a year, all across North America, $70 a year? Sign me up -- oh, sorry, already am...
You can piss and whine and moan about all the WRONG things with this club (and I'm on a second sleeve at this point), but the club itself is worth belonging to. You just need to set your limits, set your priorities, and its a pretty good gig...
We've got members that show up to party, and little else, and it's all good. They volunteer and do just about anything and everything at the rally, but then they go home, back to their lives. They don't care what goes on above them -- they care about their individual experience, their friends, and the good times that the WBCCI provides -- at least at the local unit level. You're not going to get them involved in anything else -- its all good!
So if you're on the outside, looking in, seriously, too bad for you. There's plenty to take advantage of, but like in any group, in any organization, it's always going to be up to you to make your own fun.
Don't rely on the structure to do that for you, the structure is just that. It gets you from home to points a, b, c, and it gives you the opportunity to use your Airstream more than you're likely using it now...
There are those of us that maybe aren't more concerned than others, but at least willing to do more from an organizational point of view, and those are all personal choices.
If we can get our International Leadership to stop flushing our reserves down the toilet, we can actually turn this ship around. Then again, your average member, isn't even concerned about it, life is too short...
Back on topic, and to the point. What happened to Bob Thompson was a shame. International Leadership going far beyond the scope and sense of their mere existance. The Appeals Committee corrected that situation 100%. The only thing that DIDN'T happen last year, is that our IP didn't publish the findings and the apology -- WE, the membership, had to do that.
The NEW IP could put this to bed once and for all, by publishing the findings, and publishing the apology that was offered to ALL members. Let's wait, watch, and see what happens. He's got a recent open wound on his hands, and the membership never forgets...
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6000+ Airsteam families having fun!
1000+ Airstream Events including 500+ Rallies in 2009! SaveWally's WBCCI Unit Guide
I really do get a kick out of all the non-member postings here - it's actually pretty funny, and yet sad at the same time.
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What is so sad is that I am a former member, and just never got much benefit for my membership. I didn't meet anyone mean, I didn't have any fights I didn't get parked on the pavement, I joined with a open mind and had high hopes it just did not work out for me, maybe others will have better luck.
BTW I see you are confused, this is not the WBCCI site this is Airfourms everyone posting here is a member.
What is so sad is that I am a former member, and just never got much benefit for my membership. I didn't meet anyone mean, I didn't have any fights I didn't get parked on the pavement, I joined with a open mind and had high hopes it just did not work out for me, maybe others will have better luck.
BTW I see you are confused, this is not the WBCCI site this is Airfourms everyone posting here is a member.
Just curious is it a hobby of yours to twist what people say out of context or does that make you feel smarter?
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Good Discussion 
) for service in not-for-profit work, but it's also true that virtuality is not some automatic cure for the non-retired. My staffpeople used to work tirelessly to try to set up meetings (virtual or otherwise) with different people within the same university, and people's schedules would often delay things for days or weeks. Now imagine arranging for a virtual meeting with people from all over the continent with all kinds of different demands on their time (and all kinds of technology available to them, from primitive to advanced). I wouldn't want to be the one to make the arrangements!
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