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Old 02-10-2004, 11:35 AM   #127
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Perhaps at some point change will happen and I may return.

From the sound of it you all in SC do make it happen.....to bad we're not closer!
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Old 02-10-2004, 11:43 AM   #128
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Sorry if my "bootes" comments seem harsh, but as a professional saxophonist with a degree in music performance, I'm not simply expressing my personal "preference" for musical stylings. It is my professional opinion that he is in fact, not a very good player. He IS, however, like many if not most well known popular musicians, an absolute master of self-promotion.

But really, the point isn't the broad genre of popular music. (I'm aware that "country" music isn't terribly popular in Boston; that's not the issue. in fact, the wife and I were just discussing the other night, after seeing some of the "Grammies", how much sharper the typical level of musianship is amongst the current popular country stars, as compared to the pop divas, et al. even though its not our "favorite"...we are more than capable of recognizing and acknowledging actual skill). Its about his particular niche. If they kept demographics on the typical "Bootes" fan, I'd be willing to bet that the average is far older than the typical RVer. That's all I'm saying. If you like bootes, then by-golly hook up that silver palace and git on out to Lansing. Its a free country. I'm merely saying that they're continuing to project the same stale image that they always have.
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Old 02-10-2004, 11:46 AM   #129
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From the sound of it you all in SC do make it happen.....to bad we're not closer!

Oh, and Twink: I meant to say in my earlier post: "....if you're local unit isn't doing this sort of thing.....MOVE!!!"
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Old 02-10-2004, 11:55 AM   #130
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Oh, and Twink: I meant to say in my earlier post: "....if you're local unit isn't doing this sort of thing.....MOVE!!!"
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Old 02-10-2004, 12:03 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by chuck
Sorry if my "bootes" comments seem harsh, but as a professional saxophonist with a degree in music performance, I'm not simply expressing my personal "preference" for musical stylings.
I didn't find them harsh at all. Music is very subjective.

For example, Kenny G is a far superior saxophonist ... but I really do not care for his music. As for "Bootes" ... I said I sorta like him. I try and keep an open mind and feel that an evening listening to "Bootes" would be sorta fun ... sorta campy.

I did attend a Kenny G performance once ... and it was sorta fun. Also, I do not own either musician's CDs ... and wouldn't care to listen to them on a daily basis.

Now ... let's talk Stan Getz .. or Coleman Hawkins ...
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Old 02-10-2004, 12:48 PM   #132
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Keeping an open mind in any group activity is key!

At the last rally we attended the entertainment was a local cowboy-singer/poet. Being solidly genX we rolled our eyes and considered finding something else to do that evening, but decided to go along instead. The guy was actually very good, and although he led the old folks through a sing-along of "Strawberry Roan" which we'd never even heard before, we actually had a good time. I ended up buying a CD from him and enjoy listening to it regularly, for a little variety between Matchbox 20 and Everclear.

Like I said, it never hurts to be flexable and keep an open mind

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Old 02-10-2004, 01:10 PM   #133
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Steph,

I am with you and Porky on this. I look at the entertainment to be something to try for "free". I am paying for part of it in the rally fee, but who knows what the performer will be like. You were pleasantly surprised.

In that vein:
We we co-hosting the Great Circus Parade Rally in Milwaukee Wisconsin in '96. It was hosted by the Milwaukee unit (that no longer exists). The rally site was the State Fair Park campground. We had been staying there for over a month as we had sold our house and were on the cusp of going full time in our trailer. The Park had a concert arranged that they were unable to sell out, so the manager asked us if we wanted tickets. We said sure, but can you get us enough for all. Mind you they were free. He asked how many and we said 60! He said sure so we were set. When we approached the head Rally hosts they were unsure what to do. They had never heard of Riders in the Sky and did not know what it would be like (they were thinking heavy metal, rock and roll) even with the local symphony playing with them. We were able to get 75% of the rally attendees to go and they had a blast.

The head rally host was in tears by the time the performance was over because he had not heard that type of western music since he was a boy in Texas. We knew what we were in for as Edie had been exposed to Riders by her dad and We had been living in Texas years before.

So I say go with an open mind, who knows you might enjoy it If not you can and do something else and not be kicking yourself for spending the big bucks on a pair of tickets
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Old 02-10-2004, 01:38 PM   #134
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Ok I wish I had read this before I read the Other post about the Sub Group.

Let me start by posting here what I replied in the other post because it has the same points that are valid in this post but I will add a few things.


Quote:
Well this thread seems to have two topics. Here is my attempt to cover both and how they relate to each other from the comments made by Midamrail.

To start off: I am that young working person. My wife and I are in the middle of restoring, from the ground up a 1959 Caravanner. I intend to Join the WBCCI and the VAC once we have our coach road worthy. I have looked at what both have to offer.

There is a combinations of things that has caused me concern with the WBCCI, VAC and it's events. Price of some of the ralleys and events, Time and timing is my other big issue. With two kids, full time job and all that goes with it most of the Ralley's are just not possible for me and my family.

Honestly the price is fair on every one I took the time to reseach to see what I was getting but the problem for me is I can't always attend the full durration of the events and in most cases that means well over half of what the money was going to cover is wasted.

I camp as much for economic reasons as anything. For what it would cost for a Hotel for one night for the four of us I can often camp for 2-3 days or more if you take into concideration food. Tend to dine out when hoteling. A event costing $500 for 4-5 days of activities is tough if you can't participate in about 50% of what that money covers for both time and activity missed. I bet many familys have the same problem.

Economics is also a big reason a lot of younger folks are in vintage coaches as well. I can't afford to lay out $40k on new or nearly new coach. I can however afford to lay out $2k, a lot of sweat equity and cash in small doses over a longer period of time and restore a vintage coach. I see a lot of Vintage owners are yonger working stiffs just like me. There is a flip side in that there is also many Older Vintage owners that do restore or are original owners and their going to have differnt things appeal to them. (like limited rug rats running around hollering LOL).


These Ralleys seem to be planed by and for those that are retired for the most part. Time is not a concern because the kids are out of the nest and they have plenty of vaction time available if they are not already retired.

Many of them conflict with Kids school scheduals . In addition to the School problem many don't make provisions for kids very well if at all. So I either have to take my kid out of School to alow for travel time or I have to miss stuff to not interfere with their important scheduals. Then there is limited activities they are interested in so they get board.

I think what might help to bring in new members is to have some "Family" events durring the summer months and the breaks at locations that will have some stuff to interest the kids. Try to find locations that offer something like a water park or beach nearby where they can do their thing While we do ours.

To sum it up there needs to be some change in many places to draw the younger folks and I mean under 40 with family back in. While the folks I have met both online and in person that are WBCCI/VAC members are great, freindly, helpful, people the over all structure of the WBCCI/VAC is not family oriented.
Ok Now one to a little change of heart (not much more of a carification) after reading this Thread.

The WBCCI want's it two ways an CAN have it two ways as long as the current board is willing to give a little and use their noggin.

Without a doubt after reading this thread I am even more convinced that the WBCCI is anti family/kids in it's current structure. HOWEVER I don't see this as all bad as long as some planning is done to accomidate the younger generation of owners.

I can see in 20 years when I finaly have put boot to butt on my kids and got them out that my wife and I can enjoy each others company without having somebody screaming at us. We will want a outlet for where we can socialize with others in our same situation. We will not want to be dealing with kids.

Here is the problem. The WBCCI may not exist by then on it's current path. School however makes a wall that will allow the WBCCI to have two faces and two demographics of young and old. All it takes is a little planning as to who you want certain events to cater to and plan them when the other group will not be able to easily attend.

If you want to have a extended Caravan of older adults you simply plan it when the Kids are in school. Most kids are off for summer vacations June-August. Plan it in Late August early September. You want the kids to come you plan it on a break or June- August near something like a Six Flags or Disney.

Honestly, It's that simple and with a little planning you can define who your interested in having attend a event without having to say....Hay this is for the retired folks, this is for families. Saying that would be veiwed as offesive to some but allown a natural occurence to define the demographics of an event is not.

As far as the who to alow....Airstream and Argosy only. The fact of the matter is the Argosy was an attempt to get back to what Airstream was in the 50's. Lightweigh servicable coaches that could be handled by modest vehicles. That would allow the Airstream to be the flag ship and cater too two different markets. Sort of a Cadilac to Chevy relationship. At this point and time I think they both have a place in the WBCCI.

I don't feel SOB's or marquies of Thor should be concidered. Let them make their own club like Silverstreak and Avion did.

If you want to be accepted then there is always groups like Tin Can Tourist".
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Old 02-10-2004, 02:23 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by 59toaster
If you want to have a extended Caravan of older adults you simply plan it when the Kids are in school. Most kids are off for summer vacations June-August. Plan it in Late August early September. You want the kids to come you plan it on a break or June- August near something like a Six Flags or Disney.

Honestly, It's that simple and with a little planning you can define who your interested in having attend a event without having to say....Hay this is for the retired folks, this is for families. Saying that would be viewed as offensive to some but allown a natural occurrence to define the demographics of an event is not.
I agree 1000%. Plan the events in a location or with a theme that will draw the appropriate age group and have fun.

Not that I do not like kids, many of them are well behaved and respectful. But enough of them, when brought together in a group will be kids. Nothing wrong with that, it is what they do. But since I do not have kids and I choose to not be around them that is MY choice. I have attended many rallies were kids were present and have not had any issue. But when we used to go on week long cruise vacations (now I own a MH and cannot afford both, so guess where the $$ goes )We scheduled them for times when school was in session so we could be assured a lower number of kids running loose on the ship.

In the last year WBCCI had a caravan that in order to go you had to have at least 1 kid in your rig. My understanding is the parents/grandparents had just as much fun on the roller coasters as the kids did.

Great idea Toaster!
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Old 02-10-2004, 02:58 PM   #136
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I thought that caravan counded like fun, but we would have had to rent a kid somewhere Just kidding, we wouldn't have had time to go on it anyway!
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Old 02-10-2004, 03:16 PM   #137
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Last summer I attended the international rally. This was the second event my wife and I were able to attend as WBCCI members. I towed the trailer to Burlington on Wed, which was my day for a guaranteed parking place and came back home that evening. My wife and I went back on Friday evening for the weekend. Here are some of my observations:

I would have preferred to inform the organizers of the event when I was showing up and know I would have a parking place, not the other way around.

The signs leading up to the rally said Wally Byam Caravanning Club Rally. I must have passed three or four before I figured out what I should be looking for. In my opinion the signs should have said Airstream Rally. The trailer is called an Airstream, so should the rally be called Airstream.

I paid over $200 for a parking place at the rally and used the trailer Friday and Saturday night. I left on Sunday because I am working and didnít want to use vacation time for the rally. $100 a night is very expensive considering we had no air conditioning and the septic service visited our trailer before we showed up and never while we were there. Some accommodation should be made for working members attending only for the weekend.

The only thing I really wanted from the rally, a rally decal for inside my door, I was unable to get because I didnít sign up early enough. Now bear in mind I signed up as soon as the application showed up in the BB. What I didnít know and was told later, you only get the decal and the tote bag if you signed up at the previous years rally. Now that that type of attitude is downright wrong. I followed all the procedures as published in the BB and I came home without a decal of the event and no proof that I was ever there.

I would have preferred to have parked with other members from our unit rather than not.

I was able to attend a Region 1 luncheon which was interesting and somewhat fun, but that cost more money, remember, this is only a two day event for me.

I wanted to spend some time with the various vendors that attended the event. There were people from the factory, from fantastic fan, from dometic, and so on. The problem was the vendors werenít there on Sunday. I went back to the vendor booths several times and was unable to meet with them within the time I was there.

We attended the opening ceremony. That was way too much pomp for me. I went to my nephewís graduation at West Point several years ago and there was less ceremony there that at the rally. Now really! We snuck out before it was over.

Although Iíve paid my membership dues for this year, Iím beginning to think very hard about remaining a member.

For me, at my time in life, the BB doesnít meet any of my expectations of a club publication. Iím a member of Good Sam Club also and their publication does a much better job meeting that expectation. I wish I had a vintage unit just to get their publication.

The airstreamers weíve met on our journeys are wonderful people. Theyíve literally opened their homes to us and welcomed us. I think, in the back of my mind, I joined WBCCI because I wanted to pass that fellowship on to other airstreamers. This is also the reason we signed up to provide courtesy parking for airstreamers.

I will fill out the questionere in the BB, and I will probably continue to be a member for no other reason that than to see the solutions the organization comes up with to halt the decline in membership.

Mark
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Old 02-10-2004, 03:30 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by markjoandall
I wish I had a vintage unit just to get their publication.
Mark,

You can be an associate member and get the publication even though you do not own a Vintage unit. Click on the link in Shari's post above.
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Old 02-10-2004, 03:54 PM   #139
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Rally Fees???

Why does there need to be music concerts, bus tours, catered meals all paid for with a rally fee? Big rally fees turn me off. IMHO, a rally fee should basically only cover parking and a few incidentals.

The rest of the activities should be "pay as you go". Why does everyone need to pay for activities they do not or can't take part in. Why the same rally fee if you come for one night or the whole time? I would not want to pay for an evening with Boots but those who would certianly could.

Not all rallies are this way, I know. The Midwest Rally sounds like the perfect one for me but it's 2000 miles plus RT to make that one. Maybe, one of these days...
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Old 02-10-2004, 04:15 PM   #140
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Re: Rally Fees???

Quote:
Originally posted by Big Dee
Why does there need to be music concerts, bus tours, catered meals all paid for with a rally fee? Big rally fees turn me off. IMHO, a rally fee should basically only cover parking and a few incidentals.
All of our rally fees are prorated at the end of the rally by the treasurer. Meals provided by the unit are prorated acording to the days you are there. Parking is by the day. For any other activities you either pay for yourself when attending, or, if reservations are required, you sign up in advance and pay at "settle-up time".
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