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Old 05-18-2004, 01:42 AM   #41
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2005 22' International CCD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dee
And, after all, isn't the WBCCI membership numbers declining?
I don't know the details of why the numbers are declining - is it more of a result of "older long standing members" leaving due to health? or that the new - airstream owners are not renewing their free membership - I have not seen any details of the decline demographics. Look at the overall member longevity and then the membership increase years - that should give you a good idea of the drop off years to come - although a very sensitive subject it is reality - we have entered into the era of more senior aged population than ever before. (Today is a wonderful day in the present, never look for something in the past, never look for something in the future, for yesterday is all but gone and tomorrow is far far away!)

Free Membership??? seems to be a bit of a double standard -if I purchased a new Airstream, Airstream Corp throws you a free membership but if I buy used and become a member for the first time my fees are not waived - is it really that different???? Guess I should have dropped that 30-70K instead of the 4K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dee
I think WBCCI members are a little sensitive around here.
I'm not sure I agree with you on this one Big Dee - I just think everyone has the opportunity to voice their oppinions - as you say "just talkin amongst friends"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dee
Gimmeabreak! You're comparing the WBCCI ceremonies to the Olympic ceremonies?
No actually I was not thinking of the olympics specifically - just a National or any type of International event that hold opening ceremonies - I have attended Provincial single discipline sporting events that have ceremonies that last 1-2 hours - that was the point I was making - it is just tradition of an opening ceremoni where tributes are made to the past and present and future participants, activities and special events within the greater event - I took your word that the International was long as I have never attended one - yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dee
If you're trying to say I don't have pride of ownership, well.... just don't go there, buddy!
now who is being sensitive - I used the "Pride of Ownership" to describe "Pride of Membership". Not pointing fingers at anyone "specifically" just generalizing.

In any organization there are members who will join in and be very supportive through good and tough times, volunteer, contribute just plain and simple nice members and then there are those who complain, who observe, who criticize, who just pay their fees and could care less about the organization as long as they received the "specific" benefit they joined for.

The WBCCI organization IMHO is no different. It is an organization that has to cater to 1000's of people and all from different walks of life - so sure not everything is going to be perfect for everyone.

For those people who say the Rallys are not geared to you because of being a working family- from the schedules I have seen there is really good lead time in order to request vacation time. But if Rally's are not your idea of vacation then....

As for the caravans (They sound great and I can't wait till we have an opportunity to join one) - if you have the money and time before the official retirement that is great but if not then as I said above - we should be so lucky to have WBCCI when we do....

I've only reviewed the cost of Rallys and in comparison to hotels and parking I don't think we are comparing apples to apples. I know the cost of our Rally is about $22.50 a day - this you get a spot to park, water and 15 amp service extra activites ad the extra $$$ We just did a travel in the states and stayed in the Hotel/Motel for double the above price and I will tell you give me our somewhat old A/S piped in water and enough electricity to curl my hair and read a good book and I will choose the latter any day! If I expected to pay around 10-15 a day well then I would expect to take a tinsle tent lug my water from the creek, read by candle light and hold it for the whole weekend
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Old 05-18-2004, 01:59 AM   #42
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Chuck put it rather eloquently and expresses my opinion as well.

I would like to be part of an official Airstream/Argosy club but as it currently is, i wont join it.

I dont want them to change to suit me, nor would i attempt to make them change. I am sure the the folks that are part of the clubs, while a lot could be my grandparents, are great people and i would get a long with them well.

We just have nothing in common besides owning an Airstream product.


My inlaws joined the local chapter last year and related their experience at the rally they attended. In their early 50s, they were the youngsters of the gathering.

-Pet owners are segregated to a seperate area
-drinks must be in a cup or paper bag(wha? Almost feel like i would have to hide out behind my trailer, slumped up against the side of it secretly drinking my beer)
-They had to stand up and recite an oath of some sort in front of the whole gathering to become members.


There were some others as well. I am sure these rules seem fine to them, but i am uncomfortable with them. My loss most certainly.

It is a shame really. There are a lot of folks who are into the retro/vintage thing and Airstreams fit into that niche and the new owners would be drawn to such things if there was more to offer them from the official club.

Part of the problem lies in the price of Airstreams. There will be very few younger folks(I guess i fit into that catagory on these forums and i am 35) who can afford a new Airstream when the RV bug bites them. Restored Airstreams are not cheap either. One could go out and buy a SOB for a comparable price and not have the restoration/rebuilding headaches.

Those that are into rebuilding them are the very ones who would be so inclined to join such a group, if there were more in that group who had something in common with them.

What can "the club" do to expand its appeal? Hard to say. I think the current demographic of the club wouldnt be interested in lots of the activities of a younger set so would avoid such gatherings themselves.

Perhaps some sort of mass recruiting drive done through the forums and various clubs could help. Something where each member of one of the communities helped to pass on word of the club. For all i know that has already been tried most likely.

Even though it really doesnt interest me all that much at this time, i would hate to see such a long established, interesting thing dwindle away.
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Old 05-18-2004, 03:18 AM   #43
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Quote:
Free Membership??? seems to be a bit of a double standard -if I purchased a new Airstream, Airstream Corp throws you a free membership but if I buy used and become a member for the first time my fees are not waived - is it really that different???? Guess I should have dropped that 30-70K instead of the 4K.
Actually, as I understand it, the "Free Year" was just for a couple of years to see if it made a difference in membership numbers...then it was discontinued. In our Unit, the "free" year is/was paid by the dealer that sold the new trailer....so it's really, not "free"...just not paid by the member, well what's $60 on a $30,000+ trailer!

BTW, our first year Unit dues were waived by the club, even being new owners of a "vintage" trailer...so there really wasn't a double standard.

Shari
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Old 05-18-2004, 07:54 AM   #44
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Uplifting comments

It was a breath of fresh air to receive a PM with the following comments from a WBCCI member who is only 35 years old, That is even younger than I.
His quote follows:

"My take on internet disccussion boards in general is that too many of the members have the know it all attitude, that is "you can ask them anything that you want to know, but can't tell them anything". I know of nobody else in our Unit that post on the internet. These "old fogeys" are too busy traveling and enjoying life to sit at a computer screen. They're all an inspiration to a "young guy" like me. I read a post the other day somewhere that said "I wouldn't join the WBCCI because I am a vegaterian and couldn't eat the food." Chevy trucks are not for everyone, the Baptist Church is not for everyone, T-Bone steaks are not for everyone, and The WBCCI is not for everyone."
end quote.

I find it ironic that the most discussed subject by a majority of the forum is always the WBCCI. Some would argue that there are other threads that have more hits, but collectively, all of the threads on the WBCCI are the most replied to, by far!
Even more fascinating, the replies come from both members and non-members of the WBCCI.

I can only guess that this is an indication of a desire to be a member, even the ones who have not joined. I take it like love taps from adolescent children.
The boys always picked on the girls because that was the only way they could display their affection.
I hear you folks loud and clear, you want to be members but only if it suits you. Thats cool with me.

As another forum member identified above, the club will be around when you too reach retirement, and ye will seek its brotherhood.

Smily
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Old 05-18-2004, 07:58 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideOut
... paid by the dealer that sold the new trailer....so it's really, not "free"...just not paid by the member, well what's $60 on a $30,000+ trailer!

BTW, our first year Unit dues were waived by the club, even being new owners of a "vintage" trailer...so there really wasn't a double standard.

Shari

You mean you really don't get anything for "free" these days.

Shari sounds like you have a great Club. And this is really another point we should consider - not all clubs are equal - each has the basic International "Regs" shall we say - but then each has their own atonomy to improve the level of their clubs organization, administration and activities and events.

Well I hope to learn a lot about the WBCCI and eventually hope to get involved somehow (once we can poke our heads out from the restoration) - I do a lot of tongue wagging here and it is a great forum - I see as many WBCCI members as non- members so you can get a really good prospective.

For a single reason for recruiting our Membership it would have to be Nastalgia. Going the Vintage Route - primarily was due to financial restrictions - yes there are additional expenses but when added up they are still a fraction of a new Coach today.
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Old 05-18-2004, 12:03 PM   #46
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WBCCI and cold beer

Quote:
Originally Posted by tin can luv
I hate to say this, but the one and only local WBCCI newsletter I read, had pictures of mostly MUCH older retired folks, and there was a nice article about someone having their galbladder (sp?) removed. Unfortunately...that made such a negative impression on me, that I have not bothered to check back for more.

Ron
The first time I sipped a cold beer was from my Uncle's unguarded can when I was 13 years old. UGH! It left a horribly bitter impression, and I vowed never to try beer again. Who would ever want to drink such a vile liquid?

But as I grew older and marginally wiser, I relented and sipped more beers. Some were nutty and to my liking while others were more hoppy than that very first bitter Schlitz. Subsequent sipping taught me there is a wide variety of beers to be enjoyed around the country. I've learned from different beers to refine my taste. Not every beer is to my liking, but I've discovered many beers that really hit the spot. As do other first disappointments, like Scotch and Maragaritas, both acquired tastes that one appreciates over time.

In the last 40 years I've grown and moved well beyond my initial favorite drink, the now sickly sweet Singapore Sling. But at 16, it's was the best drink ever. I'm glad I stuck with drinking instead of vowing to forever avoid beer after my first bitter disappointment. You may discover some unexpected delights in trailering if you think of the WBCCI as cold beer.
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Old 05-18-2004, 12:47 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
I dont want them to change to suit me, nor would i attempt to make them change. I am sure the the folks that are part of the clubs, while a lot could be my grandparents, are great people and i would get a long with them well.

We just have nothing in common besides owning an Airstream product.


My inlaws joined the local chapter last year and related their experience at the rally they attended. In their early 50s, they were the youngsters of the gathering.

-Pet owners are segregated to a seperate area
-drinks must be in a cup or paper bag(wha? Almost feel like i would have to hide out behind my trailer, slumped up against the side of it secretly drinking my beer)
-They had to stand up and recite an oath of some sort in front of the whole gathering to become members.
Van, that's my club! The Oregon Unit, right?

See, here's the problem, I think you and I have the same goals, but I'm the only one under 50 in the Oregon Unit, trying to make a difference. I've got all these great plans for simple rallys that would be more like forum rallies, and that I think folks our age, working families, pet people etc would enjoy. I'm really going to start making stuff happen next year. It would be great if I could get all the young people/families on this forum who are in our area to join us for a year and see what we could do if we all worked together.

There's a lot of older members who have told me that the simple weekend rallies is the way it used to be, with families getting together for the weekend so their kids could play with the other kids and families could go camp out together. They'd like to see it this way again.

It's a chicken and the egg thing, what comes first, the younger people, or the younger people rallies? I'm getting nothing but support from the older members for my ideas. They really aren't a bad group. They never segregated us when we showed up with our pets. We had to say a little oath when we joined, but they didn't haze us or anything. I've never seen anyone wearing a beret. They do have a thing about drinking, I don't get that. Maybe someone knows what the deal is about that - was Wally a non-drinker?

But anyway, it's a good group, and I hope I can organize some rallies that will be more fun for us working stiffs. My only worry is if any working stiffs will be interested and want to show up.
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Old 05-18-2004, 03:47 PM   #48
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Depends on the unit, I guess

Our bottle of wine goes with us to every happy hour and many rally dinners. We take it out in the open and there has never been a comment about it from anyone. We were discouraged from bring wine into the meeting room at an Airstream park; that's OK, we asked first because we figured there might be a problem and we had no problems leaving the wine in the trailer.
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Old 05-18-2004, 10:26 PM   #49
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From what I have heard from older members of the club, Wally was quite a lush and a womanizer. Left his wife home and took a different "lady" with him on the caravans. I don't understand the need to put adult beverages in a cup. We are all of legal age++
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Old 05-18-2004, 10:35 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmickle
I don't understand the need to put adult beverages in a cup. We are all of legal age++
After seeing the extraordinary number of beer cans stashed behind logs and tossed helter-skelter through the woods surrounding our campsite this past weekend, a requirement of cups may not be the worst idea I have heard lately.

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Old 05-19-2004, 12:32 PM   #51
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Maybe it is just a way to avoid conflicts with open container laws. Every state is different, and campgrounds have their own rules as well. If the group bases its alchoholic beverage rule on the most commonly used law, they are less likely to run afoul of it, otherwise they would have to have a different set of rules for every get together which would be confusing.

We live in a much more regulated time regarding alcohol consumption than when Wally was caravaning. On the other hand, spending time with someone other than one's wife (or husband) isn't quite as taboo.
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Old 05-19-2004, 03:28 PM   #52
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The old timers from my unit have told me that its more of an image thing. They feel that it cheapens the organization if the group is seen partaking of the beverage together.

I use a can wrap to keep the folks happy.

Jack
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Old 05-19-2004, 04:46 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera
The old timers from my unit have told me that its more of an image thing. They feel that it cheapens the organization if the group is seen partaking of the beverage together.

I use a can wrap to keep the folks happy.

Jack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
...
-drinks must be in a cup or paper bag(wha? Almost feel like i would have to hide out behind my trailer, slumped up against the side of it secretly drinking my beer)...
The old timers are entitled to their opinion, but
um yeah, drinking out of a paper bag is very discreet.
At this point I feel as though I am heading toward the slippery slope of my personal opinion vs. what the neighbors think. I am not ashamed of my friends who drink. And I'm getting us off topic.

I stand by my idea that the club is simply conforming to the open container laws in most states. Unless I am misunderstanding, and this is an isolated circumstance, not club policy at all rallies.
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Old 05-19-2004, 05:18 PM   #54
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I know that the regional parks around here require a permit and a liability insurance policy to have alchoholic beverages in group areas. Is real easy to reserve a group area unless there is alchohol. Then it becomes troublesome process.

So we will have to use cups at the Laguna Seca Rally because there is a ranger on duty 24 hr.s But maybe if we can get a few of those "beverages" in him, he won't mind.
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Old 05-19-2004, 06:00 PM   #55
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Exclamation "Uplifting Comment" based on a Misreference and Wrong

I realized in catching up on posts here that one of my own posts has been misreferenced in an undisclosed Private Message that Smiley quotes in his previous message ("Uplifting Comment") in this thread. Since I've verified in the archives that it was indeed my entry that was misconstrued, I would like to set the record straight and to note my own objections to the misuse of my original post.

This is in reference to another thread ("What's the problem?....")(http://www.airforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=11219), where Grogan requested feedback on what factors were causing folks not to attend the Region 3 rally. Since we had considered attending, I decided to provide respectful but clear feedback on why we decided not to go. In its original context, it was received in the constructive spirit it was intended. Indeed, I tried to emphasize this in my opening to my original post:

"Since you are asking, I figure I'll give you my take. I hope you see this as constructive and not damaging, but it's my honest take as someone who doesn't plan to attend. Remember--it's just an opinion--and others may differ."

The passage that the unknown author of this PM misrepresented was the following:

"I notice that you mention meals and shows [are] included in the price. As a vegetarian, I rarely can eat what's offered, so meals are a waste unless a veg option is offered. Pot lucks appeal to everyone--plus folks have so much fun sharing favorite foods."

In its original context, the food was shown as only one of many factors that led us not to decide to attend that event. It wasn't the only reason--indeed, my vegetarian status has rarely been the deciding factor for any attendence--although certainly it is a consideration.

Finally, I am indeed a current, up to date member of WBCCI. Indeed, the original poster in the thread (Grogan) only asked for feedback from WBCCI members. Actually, I'm in a unit, get the magazine and also am in the VAC. I even go to rallys. Frankly, I am a long, long ways from retirement. Maybe WBCCI will be around then, maybe not--but I think there will always be a core group of folks dedicated to using and restoring these lovely aluminum babies.

Out of context and misreferenced, the PM's reference not only was incorrect, it also ignored all the other reasons we gave to a complicated decision. It all actually is a kind of defamation.

Smiley, there probably was no way you could know that the content of the PM was wrong, so I am not in fact upset at you. But please understand that that the "breath of fresh air" is in reality a foul odor that stinks. Especially to me, since my words were misused. Please excuse me if I decline and disavow myself from these kind of offensive "love taps."

I hope you reconsider that PM's content.

Thank you,

Mary

PS In reviewing this note today, I noticed that there are hyperlinks embeded in your message ("Uplifting Comment") to spamlike sites entirely unrelated to Airstreams (to an ad site and a dating service). Were you aware they are there? Worse still--the sites seed spyware bots to anyone who clicks them (I removed the tags from the quote below, fwiw).

Quote:
Originally Posted by smily
It was a breath of fresh air to receive a PM with the following comments from a WBCCI member who is only 35 years old, That is even younger than I.
His quote follows:

"My take on internet disccussion boards in general is that too many of the members have the know it all attitude, that is "you can ask them anything that you want to know, but can't tell them anything". I know of nobody else in our Unit that post on the internet. These "old fogeys" are too busy traveling and enjoying life to sit at a computer screen. They're all an inspiration to a "young guy" like me. I read a post the other day somewhere that said "I wouldn't join the WBCCI because I am a vegaterian and couldn't eat the food." Chevy trucks are not for everyone, the Baptist Church is not for everyone, T-Bone steaks are not for everyone, and The WBCCI is not for everyone."
end quote.

I find it ironic that the most discussed subject by a majority of the forum is always the WBCCI. Some would argue that there are other threads that have more hits, but collectively, all of the threads on the WBCCI are the most replied to, by far!
Even more fascinating, the replies come from both members and non-members of the WBCCI.

I can only guess that this is an indication of a desire to be a member, even the ones who have not joined. I take it like love taps from adolescent children.
The boys always picked on the girls because that was the only way they could display their affection.
I hear you folks loud and clear, you want to be members but only if it suits you. Thats cool with me.

As another forum member identified above, the club will be around when you too reach retirement, and ye will seek its brotherhood.

Smily
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Old 05-19-2004, 06:41 PM   #56
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I noticed on the WBCCI forum that a conversation is developing that connects to this one. I think it is interesting and relevant that they are referencing this forum. This could result in a good sharing of ideas and some positive action for fuller consideration of the needs of and inclusion of diverse Airstreamers. Surely the WBCCI is big enough in concept to offer a wealth of Airstreaming opportunities, the traditional activities of past as well as more some new designs such as casual activities to fit different interests. WBCCI: branches of activities. If we all love AS and want to be a part of that organization built around them, then we all ought to be able to fit under the same umbrella! So, let's join, love the history of the past, and give our energies to refreshing the present. What have we done? Joined as members at large until we find the local unit that fits us. Just my thoughts.
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Old 05-24-2004, 08:18 AM   #57
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Just a thought.

A club that does not evolve to meet the needs of a new generation dies with the old generation. If the old generation wants to see the club survive their death, it is their responsibility to evolve the club, and its forms, and its rules, to meet what the new generation needs to enter and continue the club. Other clubs do it regularly. We haven't done it yet
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Old 05-24-2004, 09:04 AM   #58
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I agree. I see WBCCI as a mostly dying group. Sure there will be isolated pockets of groups 30 years from now if they stay the current course (for sure at least the SC and CO units, maybe even the MO, FL and TX units that a few forum members belong to that are thinking outside the box.

I'd disagree that as I get older, I'd want to be part of the stuffy local units out there. I mean, my father is different than my grandfather was as I will be different than my father is at his age. Getting older does not mean that since I too will be in the "golden years" at some point that I will need Depends nor seek out a local stale unit to suit my needs.

WBCCI was once a wonderful org. It does appear to be trying to change...some local units faster than the general larger org. I'm currently of the opinion that I too will not waste my time, money or energy on WBCCI. It's just not a good fit for us locally. I will say that if the club "local" changes to my liking, I might re-join, but I have no time to sit down and hash out a game plan to change it. Between work and actually using my Safari, there is just no time. Some will say if you want an org to change you have to make it change. I don't agree with that. I feel if they want the younger gen to come, they have to build it and they will come. I mean really, pay dues to do work on changing a unit and WBCCI in general or pay fees to actually camp, go to non forum based informal rallys (like the 2 informal midwest rallys that do work for us--sorry shameless plug).....see where I'm coming from? The cookie here for some of the WBCCI units is simple. Change or end. My local club about 6 months ago sent me a letter to renew (the free year). I wrote cancel and mailed it back. The one good thing that happened as a result, I stopped getting newsletters with pics of folks on oxygen (no offense meant).
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Old 05-24-2004, 10:09 AM   #59
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I too will join then....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
The one good thing that happened as a result, I stopped getting newsletters with pics of folks on oxygen (no offense meant).
Like I said earlier in this thread, hearing about everyone's 'golden aged' issues isn't going to do it for me. WHen I see as many younger people's pictures in the newsletter, as I did Older folks' pictures, then I'll join....
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Old 05-24-2004, 10:18 AM   #60
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I've never gone to a unit rally and heard anyone complaining about their 'golden age' issues. I do hear them telling me about all the places they've travelled, all the ups and downs that come with it. Stories about axels breaking, fridges coming open in mid-trip, flat tires and other challenges. They've also told me about places they fish, what the Alaska Highway is really like, and trips across the continent or halfway across the world to places I'm probably not going to see anytime soon. And I'm not talking about trips they made before I was born, I'm talking about trips they made since the last rally! I've never seen a member on oxygen or one complaining about their infirmities. The only thing I have seen is a generous, outgoing, compassionate group of people who happen to have a lot more years of experience on this planet than I do.
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