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Old 05-17-2004, 01:56 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smily
I am sorry if you are offended but just to be clear, there are more posters than just the originator here.

Just as some get wary of hearing the pro-WBCCI rantings that I am guilty of, I get wary of the complaints that go on here on this forum, If you have a problem with the WBCCI, take it to the WBCCI.

What does one stand to gain if they put their complaints in the box that is not anywhere close to the intended destination?

Just as all Forum gatherings are strictly voluntary, so is the WBCCI.

Is it fair to say that ALL the camping trips discussed on this forum are originated by a volunteer?
Is it fair to say that ALL activities at these camping trips are planned in a voluntary manner?
Is it fair to say that if you dont like the way things are going and seek change, speak to the ear?
Is it fair to say that if you speak to some one elses ear the message may not get delivered?
Is it fair to say that if the message is not received, there will be no result?

I too am one of the younger persons here that is simply saying, that the WBCCI is and will be WHATEVER YOU MAKE OF IT!

I can honestly say, that if I have a problem, I go to the horses mouth.
believe it or not, The articles came about by doing just that, I listened here and other places about the pros and cons of the WBCCI. I chose to speak to the WBCCI. I see results.

Smily
It's all fair and good. Just hard to understand if you're new or looking into WBCCI, and teh Club seems so very not fitting with the demographics that Airstream as a company is clearly targeting.
So, instead of challenging a member's concerns, perhaps explanations would be much more productive. No one has targeted you personally, right?
The website ( one of the first points of contact) for example, is definitely in need of improvement. Well, whatever - i don't want to go into details, as I am not a member, yet.
Fact is, it should be officers and members looking after new members, making it clear and easy to understand where it's at. Not the other way around.
Volunteer or not, if you don't do a good job at what you're volunteering for, then it's worthless. I dislike the " well I'm doing it for free, so don't complain" scene. I recently had a mini rally to another country, ( Mexico) and made darn sure everyone involved knew what was going on, and had a good time. Of course I was lucky, having such a wonderfully pleasant crowd.
I am not saying the WBCCI organization is bad, or it's a bad idea to begin with, just that if you are looking at it as a potential new member, or an inexperienced member, then it does not appeal to working or otherwise active families, couples, or individuals.
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Old 05-17-2004, 02:33 PM   #30
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Hey, Ken: let me first preface by saying that I think your articles in the BB are great, and serve an important purpose. I always get a chuckle out of them. IMO, there's little else worth reading in that magazine.

But I don't think what people are doing with their comments here is really "complaining"; just sharing of thoughts amongst a diverse group of people who like to chit-chat about such things. I understand your point about making change from within, and all, but I, and probably many others probably feel that would be a bit presumtuous. Why should we go changing someone else's club? I mean, these people have been doing this thing, this way, for upwards of 40 years. They've been having a good time. They'd like to continue to do so, I'm sure. So who are we to barge in and tell them they have to change to suit US?? that would just be impolite.

"Um, excuse me?!! would you please put away that flag, and for god's sake, take off that silly hat!! I don't like it!!".


My first exposure to the wally club was at the international last year in Burlington, VT. I had similar impressions to the OP...really seemed like an AARP picnic. Which is fine, really. ( I kid you not, I saw at least one really, really old guy with long, plaid pants, shirt buttoned all the way up, wool hat, and a long sleeved sweater, and it was 97 degrees in the shade. and there weren't no shade! good grief!). Its a free country. And the AARP has to have its conventions somewhere, too. (who knew they'd turn out to be the latest intra-club of the wbcci? ) . From this limited exposure, I had certain impressions...some of which reflect reality, and some of which probably don't. But the long and short of it is that my impression was that this club is probably not for me. Nice, friendly folks...but not people with whom I have much in common, aside ownership of the same make of camper. That's not enough for me. and I'm not going to ruin their experience just because I want to be in the silver trailer club. I wouldn't be too pleased if someone moved in next door to me, and then told me to change; I don't expect that anyone would appreciate the same treatment from me.
Now, if you're talking about attracting members...that's a different story. Supposedly, the club's membership is dwindling, and they want to reverse that trend. Well, if that's the case, then the onus is on them to do something to make themselves more attractive. I don't think its realistic to expect people to join a club that holds no interest for them, in hopes that they'll somehow change it into something that does...someday....maybe. It would me much easier to just join the Jccci, instead. Don't forget what the "R" in "RV" stands for. Yes, its all volunteer, and yes, it takes alot of work to keep the club going. But its supposed to be fun. spending all that time struggling to try and get a leopard to change its spots is not my idea of "recreation". (neither is "square dancing", but I won't go there).

Like Tip O'neal said, "all politics is local", and I'm sure that it is the same with the wally club. Some local clubs are more hip than others. "your mileage may vary". But the stoggy reputation of the Wbcci persists...in some cases, deservedly. In others, its just "a bad rap". Your articles take at least some of that stoggy-ness out of the BB, and hopefully, remind the "powers that be" of the need to cater to a wider audience. In the long run, that can only be a good thing.
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Old 05-17-2004, 04:02 PM   #31
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You got it Chuck!

Why induce change when it may not need changing, some like it just the way it is.
Again, I find myself backing away from the table.
This is not the first time I got all ruffled over some one stating that the WBCCI is not offering what they are looking for. It can be as simple as being involved and making suggestions at a unit meeting. The WBCCI cannot possibly make every one happy, I am guilty of foolishly thinking, for a brief moment, that they could.

I think back to a case when I was in a lawsuit with FORD Motor Corp., A questioned was asked to a body repairman (professional witness), "Do you think the color of a vehicle is important" the reply was, "Of course it is, if not we would all be driving black volkswagen beetles"

So I humbly step out.
I am going to the Region 3 Rally and enjoy the time I have there.
I will try to think of the folks out in the other regions that may or may not be enjoying being members of the WBCCI.

I am truly sorry that the unit you visit is not what you expect it to be . But there is a significant number of people who are enjoying it, including me.

I have said it before and I will close with this again, I truly wish that all of the WBCCI units and regions were as good as ours. But there would always be those folks that just want it a different way. To those, I wish you well at your next gathering of Airstreams.

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Old 05-17-2004, 04:05 PM   #32
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Smiley, and Pahaska, and anyone else who was offended by what I said, please forgive me. You are right. I don't know anything about the WBCCI. I am in a city where I am one of only a few people interested in vintage units, as though it seems. I have managed to hook up with a few St.Louis area A/S owners, but, the people that I could learn the most from, i.e. vintage owners, don't exist, or have little time. (sorry, once again straying). I hate to say this, but the one and only local WBCCI newsletter I read, had pictures of mostly MUCH older retired folks, and there was a nice article about someone having their galbladder (sp?) removed. Unfortunately...that made such a negative impression on me, that I have not bothered to check back for more.

I am at fault there. I realize that. I also have tried not to be so negative (as I was this morning), because it does little if any good. As far as making a change in the WBCCI, I don't think that I would stand a chance against the people in that WBCCI newsletter. I know that Midamrail might be working with Jack on a few issues, and once the ball is rolling, I will be a willing participant. Until then, I don't know enough to stand up against the traditions that seem to make the older WBCCI generation happy with things the way they are.

So. I appologize. To each his own. And look forward to changes.

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Old 05-17-2004, 04:26 PM   #33
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We joined the WBCCI for one year (free trial membership with the new trailer). Our impressions were: the members are of a different generation, the trips are too long for working people, and trips are too expensive. Also, the newsletter was mostly about club internals - not a very interesting read.

I participate on Airstream Forums and a Porsche owners forum. They offer people with shared interests, shared knowledge, opportunities to meet people, and informal gatherings... without rules, politics, and other annoying stuff (funny hats and such).

As far as join-and-change, I agree with Chuck... I do not have interest in joining a club for the purpose of changing it. If WBCCI's member list declines, perhaps it's time is passing.
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Old 05-17-2004, 04:32 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smily
Why induce change when it may not need changing, some like it just the way it is.
Again, I find myself backing away from the table.Smily
Ken, while there are those who see that it may not need changing, the numbers speak for themselves. Overall the organization continues to lose members and obviously is not attracting enough new A/S owners to offset the losses. Your local unit may be doing fine but we locally in STL aren't going to cut the mustard long term by adding 1-3 members a year.

Those units that adapt and understand this will survive. I'm hoping that long run we will get those folks who don't belong in the STL area, to join the local unit. I understand to do this will require us to make some changes. Hopefully our first efforts this fall with our Rte. 66 Caravan will be met with enthusiam.

Personally as posted earlier, I think we can grow but it may mean providing activities and events that may meet the needs of the younger folks while maintaining those events and traditions that the long time members like.

Regards,

Jack
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Old 05-17-2004, 08:19 PM   #35
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John,
Since I am not a WBCCI member I had no idea what you meant when you said that the treasurer holds court. I had visions of members being brought up for violations but since this was rather severe I opted to just "let it ride". Terminology can throw you if you're not aware of its meaning. I'm not throwing stones here because I know very little about the WBCCI. It could be that one day I will join but not until I get the coach of my dreams.
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Old 05-17-2004, 10:00 PM   #36
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Ok folks, I have been sitting here reading all of the comments that have been posted here. I find it amazing that so many know so little about the topic that they are commenting on. We have been Airstream owners and a WBCCI members for over ten years now and not once have we ever regreted any of it. When my wife and I went to our very first rally we were and for many the years to follow the youngest members in our unit. On our first rally we arrived late due to both of us working. When we pulled up we were greeted by a very nice older gentleman that helped me get parked and settled in. After we did all of this, we made our way to the building where everyone was enjoying a good time. We were met with open arms by everyone in the room. How many places have you ever been that complete strangers welcomed you so warmly? Maybe there is something for all of us to learn here!!!!! Are we so wrapped up in our own little lives that we have forgotten the core principles our parents taught us? Yes most of the members are from a different time....look around they are our parents and grandparents. Is it so wrong that they are set in their ways stuffy or not? As we all know there are organizations that are not suited to all of us......so these we tend to skirt aound. As for the pomp and circumstance that so many are you are complaining about....compare it to going to your childs sporting event. Do you not stand up and take off your hat or place your hand over your heart when the National Anthem is played. Is this not the same kind of pomp and circumstance? Just think of how things would be if we didn't have this kind of order. Many of you find it easy to keep taking jabs because you have never given it a worth while chance. The things you see and stories you hear at a rally are the things that history has been made of. Yes these people are older....these are the men and women that defended our country before many of us were a glimmer in an eye.

My kids are 18 and 16 and to this day they still ask when and where we are going camping next. In this day and time is it a bad thing to enjoy the company of a group that holds on to something such as the pomp and circumstance like WBCCI?

The rallies that are to long and to expensive are not for everyone including us, so we make sure that we make it to the ones closer to home. The rally content is not diminished by the fact that they are close home. The whole point for most of us buying a camper was to go out and have fun. I'm sure that there are many units that are not as active as the one Ken and I are in....there is nothing that says that you have to join that one. You can join any unit you wish! We have many members that drive lots of miles to come to a rally just because their "home unit" is not quite as fun as ours. I know that this didn't answer the question of " Why should I join WBCCI?" but you never know if you will like something unless you put forth the effort with yours eyes, ears and mind open.

And yes we will miss all of you at the Region 3 rally this week.
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Old 05-17-2004, 10:24 PM   #37
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GOLDEN ANNIVERSARY - 50 YEARS

Besides the little red numbers, dated but cool logo sticker, to stick on our "new" Vintage Coach and Membership in the Vintage Club....The prime reason Peter and I joined WBCCI is the fact that it is an organization that is 50 years strong!

Yes we are the working stiff's as well as being in the classified younger generation - however our generation grew up respecting our Seniors helping them, enjoying life with them.

I admit it was a little discouraging trying to sign up at the beginning - because we were so enthusiastic to join and learn more. This of course is an administrative issue that is specific to our Unit. The WBCCI head office was more than helpful and administered our membership in an expedient manner.

Being involved in many non-profit organizations - the organization will only be as good as it's members!!! not it's volunteers. It is the members who vote, who elect, who contribute - it is the volunteers who coordinate and administer.

We have not participated in a Rally yet - but will be this coming weekend - so as far as judgement - who are we to judge anyway. The word Rally is exactly that - rally together and make your own fun - and for those who like the organized activities join in and those who don't make your own or "volunteer" to organize something that would be fun for "your" generation.

Complaints, observations or critisism - such discouraging notions.....coming from actual WBCCI members and from those who are not even members to knock something that is a "choice".... if you like for what ever your reasons are JOIN if you don't for whatever you feel you won't get for your $60 US/ $78.60CND then DON'T join.

We should be so lucky when we reach our 70's to have an organization with such stature! to join.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dee
And finally, big news in the Blue Beret. The opening ceremonies of the International were not long enough. They have added the Canadian military anthem. Now, how many anthems is that?
Shall we not forget the word International in the organizations header WBCCI - as well, paying a bit of respect to the 1955 Caravan to Eastern "Canada" during which WBCCI was founded through a 3 minute National Anthem is hardly deserving of the above comment.

This is an International Rally! Have you ever been to any International Sporting events Opening and Closing Ceremonies?????

I will close my thoughts on the matter with a novel concept....Pride of Membership....something like pride of ownership - some people have it and some people don't.

We are proud to be a members! Just as we are proud to be the owners of a Vintage Airstream that is still rolling after 35 years.
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Old 05-17-2004, 10:41 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dee
  • There are very few email addresses on the coupons. Most communication is by snail mail. Another clue as to the demos of the club. And it discourages me from attending the Region 12 Rally if I can't ask questions about fees by email.
The email address of the Region 12 Membership Chairman is available online at the WBCCI website.

Region 12 Contact Information Membership Chairman: David Putnam
Address: 221 W. Herndon Sp. #4
Pinedale, CA 93650

Phone: (559) 439-3630 Email: Dputnam221@cs.com

I am sure David will be happy to answer your questions regarding prorated rally fees or will advise you who to contact for additional information.

Shari
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Old 05-17-2004, 11:28 PM   #39
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I tried to stay quiet but...

Quote:
Complaints, observations or critisism - such discouraging notions.....coming from actual WBCCI members
I am just "talkin" amongst friends. And, after all, isn't the WBCCI membership numbers declining? I think WBCCI members are a little sensitive around here.

Quote:
The word Rally is exactly that - rally together and make your own fun - and for those who like the organized activities join in and those who don't make your own or "volunteer" to organize something that would be fun for "your" generation.
Okay, I did.


Quote:
This is an International Rally! Have you ever been to any International Sporting events Opening and Closing Ceremonies?????
Gimmeabreak! You're comparing the WBCCI ceremonies to the Olympic ceremonies?

Quote:
Shall we not forget the word International in the organizations header WBCCI
Well, I think the name should be changed too. Where's the word "Airstream"?

Quote:
I will close my thoughts on the matter with a novel concept....Pride of Membership....something like pride of ownership - some people have it and some people don't.
If you're trying to say I don't have pride of ownership, well.... just don't go there, buddy!

If you're saying I don't have WBCCI membership pride....yeah, okay.

But I am real proud to be a Forum member. Thanks everyone!
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Old 05-17-2004, 11:31 PM   #40
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Smile

Thanks, Shari, I will email him.
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Old 05-18-2004, 12:42 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dee
And, after all, isn't the WBCCI membership numbers declining?
I don't know the details of why the numbers are declining - is it more of a result of "older long standing members" leaving due to health? or that the new - airstream owners are not renewing their free membership - I have not seen any details of the decline demographics. Look at the overall member longevity and then the membership increase years - that should give you a good idea of the drop off years to come - although a very sensitive subject it is reality - we have entered into the era of more senior aged population than ever before. (Today is a wonderful day in the present, never look for something in the past, never look for something in the future, for yesterday is all but gone and tomorrow is far far away!)

Free Membership??? seems to be a bit of a double standard -if I purchased a new Airstream, Airstream Corp throws you a free membership but if I buy used and become a member for the first time my fees are not waived - is it really that different???? Guess I should have dropped that 30-70K instead of the 4K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dee
I think WBCCI members are a little sensitive around here.
I'm not sure I agree with you on this one Big Dee - I just think everyone has the opportunity to voice their oppinions - as you say "just talkin amongst friends"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dee
Gimmeabreak! You're comparing the WBCCI ceremonies to the Olympic ceremonies?
No actually I was not thinking of the olympics specifically - just a National or any type of International event that hold opening ceremonies - I have attended Provincial single discipline sporting events that have ceremonies that last 1-2 hours - that was the point I was making - it is just tradition of an opening ceremoni where tributes are made to the past and present and future participants, activities and special events within the greater event - I took your word that the International was long as I have never attended one - yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dee
If you're trying to say I don't have pride of ownership, well.... just don't go there, buddy!
now who is being sensitive - I used the "Pride of Ownership" to describe "Pride of Membership". Not pointing fingers at anyone "specifically" just generalizing.

In any organization there are members who will join in and be very supportive through good and tough times, volunteer, contribute just plain and simple nice members and then there are those who complain, who observe, who criticize, who just pay their fees and could care less about the organization as long as they received the "specific" benefit they joined for.

The WBCCI organization IMHO is no different. It is an organization that has to cater to 1000's of people and all from different walks of life - so sure not everything is going to be perfect for everyone.

For those people who say the Rallys are not geared to you because of being a working family- from the schedules I have seen there is really good lead time in order to request vacation time. But if Rally's are not your idea of vacation then....

As for the caravans (They sound great and I can't wait till we have an opportunity to join one) - if you have the money and time before the official retirement that is great but if not then as I said above - we should be so lucky to have WBCCI when we do....

I've only reviewed the cost of Rallys and in comparison to hotels and parking I don't think we are comparing apples to apples. I know the cost of our Rally is about $22.50 a day - this you get a spot to park, water and 15 amp service extra activites ad the extra $$$ We just did a travel in the states and stayed in the Hotel/Motel for double the above price and I will tell you give me our somewhat old A/S piped in water and enough electricity to curl my hair and read a good book and I will choose the latter any day! If I expected to pay around 10-15 a day well then I would expect to take a tinsle tent lug my water from the creek, read by candle light and hold it for the whole weekend
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Old 05-18-2004, 12:59 AM   #42
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Chuck put it rather eloquently and expresses my opinion as well.

I would like to be part of an official Airstream/Argosy club but as it currently is, i wont join it.

I dont want them to change to suit me, nor would i attempt to make them change. I am sure the the folks that are part of the clubs, while a lot could be my grandparents, are great people and i would get a long with them well.

We just have nothing in common besides owning an Airstream product.


My inlaws joined the local chapter last year and related their experience at the rally they attended. In their early 50s, they were the youngsters of the gathering.

-Pet owners are segregated to a seperate area
-drinks must be in a cup or paper bag(wha? Almost feel like i would have to hide out behind my trailer, slumped up against the side of it secretly drinking my beer)
-They had to stand up and recite an oath of some sort in front of the whole gathering to become members.


There were some others as well. I am sure these rules seem fine to them, but i am uncomfortable with them. My loss most certainly.

It is a shame really. There are a lot of folks who are into the retro/vintage thing and Airstreams fit into that niche and the new owners would be drawn to such things if there was more to offer them from the official club.

Part of the problem lies in the price of Airstreams. There will be very few younger folks(I guess i fit into that catagory on these forums and i am 35) who can afford a new Airstream when the RV bug bites them. Restored Airstreams are not cheap either. One could go out and buy a SOB for a comparable price and not have the restoration/rebuilding headaches.

Those that are into rebuilding them are the very ones who would be so inclined to join such a group, if there were more in that group who had something in common with them.

What can "the club" do to expand its appeal? Hard to say. I think the current demographic of the club wouldnt be interested in lots of the activities of a younger set so would avoid such gatherings themselves.

Perhaps some sort of mass recruiting drive done through the forums and various clubs could help. Something where each member of one of the communities helped to pass on word of the club. For all i know that has already been tried most likely.

Even though it really doesnt interest me all that much at this time, i would hate to see such a long established, interesting thing dwindle away.
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