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Old 01-05-2010, 04:01 PM   #15
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1968 24' Tradewind
Louisville , earth
Join Date: Jun 2005
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“We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it - and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove lid. She will never sit on a hot stove lid again - and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore.” -Mark Twain.

Clubs are not becoming obsolete, not by any means. The things that have drawn people together from time immemorial are still drawing us together into groups today: fellowship, shared interests, like mindedness, similar goals, and so forth. That many clubs have failed to survive the past half century should not confuse us into the conclusion that clubs are obsolete. Mark Twain was on to something about the cat’s experience. It seems to me that the reason that clubs are vanishing lies more in rising expectations, loss of vision, organizational inflexibility.

Over time, organizations can lose their way, they forget what their mission is, dilute their efforts, or just go astray. Instead of constantly working to see that the organizations behaviors are in alignment with its core values, mission, or creed, focus gets transferred to other things. Practices that were long ago adopted under different circumstances are clung to under the logic of “that’s how its always been done”, or the real organizational killer: tradition. I have come to the general conclusion that the defense of a practice on the basis of its being tradition is usually used when the practice is otherwise indefensible. When groups lose alignment with their purpose, they weaken and die.

No doubt, the information and communication revolution of the past decades have indirectly impacted the failure of some groups. With more information comes more choices, with more choices inherently weakened organizations are at greater risk of failure. But make no mistake, this is not the cause of the failure, it simply exposes preexisting flaws in the organization.

Groups that are working to ensure that their behavior is aligned with their aims are less likely to be at risk to fail in an environment where completion for resources of time and money are increasingly intense. Ones that adapt to the superficial changes of succeeding generations and how they communicate are also less vulnerable. I think that the good ideas that draw us together are pretty much timeless and immune to generational differences. How those ideas are realized does matter, and organizational flexibility does count when other choices exist.

So, to my way of thinking, organizations/clubs are not obsolete. The way many clubs do business is, and these practices leave them at risk of failure.


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Old 01-05-2010, 04:19 PM   #16
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DFDureiko's Avatar
2004 34' Classic S/O
Brooksville , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
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FMCA vs. WBCCI, or Escapee's or Good Sam

more than a few people I know (older) have A/S motorhomes and are in the "Airstream Chapter" of the they have "better" rallies.
Now, Granted, the Elks and Moose and VFW might be having membership issues......but FMCA, Escapee's and GoodSam are not, too my knowledge.

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Old 01-05-2010, 04:33 PM   #17
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2005 19' Safari
1968 24' Tradewind
Rural , Delaware
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I'm so totally ready for an "intergalactic" group/club/unit.
2005 Bambi
1968 Trade Wind
2007 Ford F250 4x4 Crew
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:15 PM   #18
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1973 27' Overlander
Loganville , Georgia
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I am one who has worked with children my whole adult life and here is what the Internet and forums have done for them. They get great research and information from the Internet and forums, but the also can get a lot of wrong information. There are definitly pro's and con's. The biggest negative is the faliure for kids is having face to face contact because they spend all their free time on the Internet. That can be the same with adults. People can forget correct social ettiquette. They can forget how to socialize with their family or friends. They take their dinner to the computer or T.V. and tune out. Just go to a restraunt and look at people not talking to each other but text messaging, phone calls or using their internet options.

This conflict about airstream clubs or club will always be present. The problem with the internet forums is people can be a little more critical and can end up being a little less tactiful when these internet conflicts arise...Just my opionion...Take it or leave it... Sometimes people are a little more guttsy in their argument when they are not face to face. Not saying either is right or wrong but Internet verbal conflicts are on the rise. Oh yeah they are doing studies on that also.

Airstream forums is like a club to me and I get a bunch of information from it. I call it my airstream club, but nothing will take the place of a bunch of people getting together and sharing companionship. I will do my first get together this summer. I am looking towards this moment to see a bunch of other airstreamers. I don't belong to any club. It is open to all airstream owners. Fellowship! I am in need of it. I am giving up a possible rally to go fishing with 12 buddies.

Getting back to the kids. I have seen much change over the years with young and old being to wrapped up on the Internet, Tv and electronic games. Research is already out about people not being in contact with nature. I have read studies where they feel ADHD and ADD is developing within people that do not get outside with nature and bond.

Clubs are for those who need that type of structure with the Roberts Rules of order, officers, agendas, treasure and so on. They are great I was a member of different clubs for years. I know at this time in my life I don't have the time, money for an airstream club and my main focus is on other goals. I will retire, collect a pension and want to find other work (change). My wife and I are not blessed with that type of free time or the financial capabilites to be going on a bunch of rallies. We will be working towards our main goal.

Times they are changin. I just don't want to get into debate about memberships or Yada yada Yada.

Brian & Adrienne
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Old 01-06-2010, 05:35 AM   #19
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1968 17' Caravel
Marblehead , Massachusetts
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Posts: 137
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
typically folks who make this claim are from a specific subset of gamers...and we are ALL gamers, it is IN the human genes and most critters above the reptilian brain.
True enough - but this isn't my kind of game. But, of course, since you don't know me you have no idea from which "subset" I originate.

Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
......except the trolls who are after SELF gratification via controversy.
There is a big difference between controversy and a civil, intelligent discussion.

Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
direct or not, specific or not, vague or not it is still ABOUT a specific topic and specific players.......some believe that leaving OUT the specifics raises the commentary to another level... it doesn't.
I don't agree. You can discuss any topic objectively or subjectively, including politics and religion. There is be a big difference in the motivation and purpose which puts them on different levels. My motivation is to get people to think about their options. I have no self-serving interests relative to these matters.

I do not know even one of the people involved with any of the issues I have read about on here so I have no personal interests or axes to grind. In fact I only know one gentleman on this Forum personally; and I met him through it. We have become good friends in the 18 months since our meeting and so have our wives. I thank him for helping me find my Caravel and teaching me the basics of trailers in general and Airstreams in particular. In return they have been my guests at the hamfest and I am helping him and his wife prepare for the amateur radio licencing examination. We are looking forward to warmer weather when we can go camping together. I believe the basis for a firm honest friendship is to give and receive, not just receive.

He told me about the great group of folks that are in his "unit" and I thought I might consider joining it and perhaps the VAC as well because these are the areas in which my interests lie. However I learned that I must join the "mother club" first. I have no interest whatsoever in their activities so paying tribute to a national organization that does not serve my specific needs and interests is unacceptable to me. I still work for a living and taking off on a cross-country caravan that, in my opinion, costs big bucks is not an option for me at this time.

$75.00 for annual membership is a lot of cake especially these days and I'll be damned if I am going to contribute any of my hard-earned cake to some directors/trustees good time expense accounts and "stipends" at a time when the organization appears to be losing money.

Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
good idea, but WHY start a thread on that topic then? it's a little bit like posting "i'm leaving" or "this is my last post" (ok, next to last post) or other silly passive/aggressive declarations...
I stated that "I have resolved not to read any more postings involving clubs their attendant bickering and infighting...." and I continue in that resolve because I frankly find it depressing and full of negative karma. I made NO statements that "i'm leaving" or "this is my last post". However I did not state that I would not discuss these issues and started the thread because I am interested in knowing how other people feel about using the Internet/Web to change the way sffinity groupd and associations are administered and communicate within themselves. I firmly believe it is the way of the 21st Century and I want to see what others think, including you.

Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
some get past that phase (the why can't I control things here or get my way) and learn to use what is available...others don't....and some make pronouncements about HOW it should be...when it isn't gonna be that way...2air'
Suggestions, opinions and thought-provoking discussions are not "pronouncements." It is my opinion that people should be able to join at whatever level that meets their individual needs. The Units have the power to change this. Until this becomes an option or my particular needs change I will regretfully have to remain unjoined and unaffiliated.

I believe my posts here are all objective and are intended to get people to think. They have the power to vote - with their wallets. If the club collapses under its' own weight so be it. Like the mythical Phoenix a new one will rise from the ashes, perhaps one that is in more in tune with the times in which we live.

However, thank you for an interesting exchange. I enjoyed it. Hope you did too.

"Mister Mike", Chief Engineer, Amateur Radio Station W1RC
Founder and Benevolent Dictator, New England Amateur Radio Festival, (aka NEAR-Fest),
At the Beautiful Deerfield NH Fairgrounds (Next one October 11th and 12th 2013)
"Best #@! Hamfest on the Planet!"
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