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Old 04-04-2010, 04:47 AM   #29
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:18 AM   #30
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Thnanks Frank, my feelings, exactly!
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:15 AM   #31
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:17 AM   #32
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SilverTwinkie,

Let’s say we take your stance and the IBT Presidents on the matter (which as you know, I don’t) and say it’s correct. How should a group of members with in the club go about trying to contact other members within the club to let them know of the many problems they have documented in regards to how the “IBT/EC7” has mismanaged the funds of the club and they want something done?

Do you think the very body that controls the Blue Beret is going to allow them to run a full page ad?

Do you think the very body that controls the contact information is going give it up “willingly”?

Would they allow a group to have a booth at the International Rally handing out information on the subject?

Since you’re a moderator on the WBCCI Forums, Will you allow a thread to be started on that forums about the subject and requesting donations to bring a case against the IBT/EC7 since we are told by the IBT/EC7 that the forums is a place for the WBCCI Members to communicate?

My guess the answer is “NO” for every single one.

So if the answer is no, How would you go about communicating this message out to the “general” membership of the WBCCI?
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Old 04-04-2010, 02:10 PM   #33
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... How would you go about communicating this message out to the “general” membership of the WBCCI?
We are allowed to communicate just about the way we are allowed to run our own candidates and vote for our choice of leaders...not.

Anyone remember that cartoon and song, "Momma don't allow no music in here, but what I care what she don't allow, I'll play my music anyhow!

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Old 04-04-2010, 10:10 PM   #34
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SilverTwinkie,

Let’s say we take your stance and the IBT Presidents on the matter (which as you know, I don’t) and say it’s correct. How should a group of members with in the club go about trying to contact other members within the club to let them know of the many problems they have documented in regards to how the “IBT/EC7” has mismanaged the funds of the club and they want something done?

Do you think the very body that controls the Blue Beret is going to allow them to run a full page ad?

Do you think the very body that controls the contact information is going give it up “willingly”?

Would they allow a group to have a booth at the International Rally handing out information on the subject?

Since you’re a moderator on the WBCCI Forums, Will you allow a thread to be started on that forums about the subject and requesting donations to bring a case against the IBT/EC7 since we are told by the IBT/EC7 that the forums is a place for the WBCCI Members to communicate?

My guess the answer is “NO” for every single one.

So if the answer is no, How would you go about communicating this message out to the “general” membership of the WBCCI?
Paul these are my answer in order as you asked them:

I really don't know, but I would have asked before using the compiled email list.

I have no idea if the Blue Beret would allow this, but IMHO, money is money (for an ad), but I don't manage the Blue Beret, so I can't answer that question really.

I really can't say if they'd allow a booth. Being a past prez Paul, you'd have a better sense on this question and the prior question that I would.

As for putting a thread on the public forum, I'm one of four folks, so I don't make the sole decision, but IIRC, this may be covered in the TOS. I believe the same thing is also found in AF's TOS, so I'm thinking that would not be allowed. Personally, I have no issue with folks bringing up issues as long as it's civil. For example, you wouldn't find the somewhat snyde comments that are allowed here, like the chase the tail that have no connection to the conversation, but as for solicitations, I doubt very much it'd fly on the public or member only forum. As a matter of fact I even recall this forum clearly stating something similar when solicitations were made on some of the thread(s).

Well, it's hard for me to say what vehicles would be effective. I mean, let's look at it this way, you get some emails off the profile pages from this forum. You then send out emails to AF members asking for money to go against this forum....I really think the folks at AF would also have an issue with that. It would seem that the only real way to do it is how it started. Post the info here to one of the largest Airstream communities on the net and have a website that folks can voluntarily visit and participate. I think really that would have been my approach.
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:19 PM   #35
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Eric,

How would reach the many WBCCI members who do not frequent this forum and are not aware that this forum exists?

Bill
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:36 PM   #36
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Eric,

How would reach the many WBCCI members who do not frequent this forum and are not aware that this forum exists?

Bill
Bill,

I don't have a great answer to that good question. My sense is that for folks that don't know or can't find this forum, I doubt they'd be heavy email users either. Most of these folks would need snail mail, but even then, using actual mailing addresses could be looked upon similarly because it would most likely come from the same WBCCI compiled list(s).

Getting the message to the masses takes time. It's like being a farmer, you can't plant the seed and harvest the same day. I know this is a passionate thing for folks, and a number of folks want things like it were yesterday, but if it were me, anything I did would be above board (not taking complied lists and using them without permission). This does mean that it would take longer, but again, you can't plant the seed and harvest the same day.

If there was a better way, I'm sure folks far smarter than I would have thought about it.
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:09 AM   #37
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You know, we didn't appreciate the $ solicitation we received in our personal email account, and opted out of receiving any more of these, but otherwise want to hear from Leo, Ed, et al, as to what their perceptions and opinions are. This is good and important information for members, and helps us make informed decisions.

With all due respect to Eric/Silvertwinkie, IMHO any time you give and allow your residential and email addresses to be published in a directory, there is implied consent that anyone who has access to that directory can and may contact you----using those addresses. They are in a hard copy and become public information, don't they?

If the IBT has issues with how and for what purpose they are used by any member having access to the information, does that negate implied consent by the giver? Do members only want to hear what the IBT tells them, and are we agreeing by giving personal addresses to have all information screened and censored? I think not, really.

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Old 04-05-2010, 09:47 AM   #38
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Wow... Are there really 10,000 plus posts of "I don't know," "I really couldn't say," "I have no idea?" Looks like it's real easy to have an opinion, backing one up seems to be quite a problem.

You keep implying that the email list had to be compiled or was mined. If you were a member you would know it's now an electronic directory and no member has to do anything but use it. The message was club business, club relevant, and yes gave members OPTIONS for those that truly care or are concerned.

I didn't think anyone had more time on their hands than that bunny, but Pot Stirrer Extraordinaire should replace your Aluminut title. Nothing but opinions with nothing to back them up. That's TWO on my ignore list now -- life is getting better all the time...

Say goodnight Twink!

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Think it's time to get your facts straight once again Leo. Hardly 10k posts of I don't know, I really couldn't say. As far as I can tell there are fewer than 10 posts here on the subject by me and even fewer with the statements you are suggesting. Got math?!

Another gleaming example of the sensationalism that some of the VO hold dear. Post non-factuals and run.

Right on Leo, and where was the data that was used found...and who exactly gave permission to use said data? There is data in the member profile area here, does that give you the right to use it as you see fit as well? There is where the rub is Leo, but then again if you were known for tact, I suspect you'd not have had as many problems with this as you've clearly had....

I'm not the one that can't be back in the club, so I think the "goodnight" remark is going the wrong way IMHO.
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:52 AM   #39
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You know, we didn't appreciate the $ solicitation we received in our personal email account, and opted out of receiving any more of these, but otherwise want to hear from Leo, Ed, et al, as to what their perceptions and opinions are. This is good and important information for members, and helps us make informed decisions.

With all due respect to Eric/Silvertwinkie, IMHO any time you give and allow your residential and email addresses to be published in a directory, there is implied consent that anyone who has access to that directory can and may contact you----using those addresses. They are in a hard copy and become public information, don't they?

If the IBT has issues with how and for what purpose they are used by any member having access to the information, does that negate implied consent by the giver? Do members only want to hear what the IBT tells them, and are we agreeing by giving personal addresses to have all information screened and censored? I think not, really.

Maggie
I want to add, here, that surely the WBCCI would not have available online the email addresses of all members, if they could then not legally be used by all members. ?

Maggie
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:24 AM   #40
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I do not believe the HQ of WBCCI has the e-mails online and available to non-members. They failed to publish them in this year's International Directory by mistake. They then made them available to people who (after being verified as members) via e-mail attachment. After you give them out to members, you can not control how those members might use them. I believe they considered this before they sent out the few files to a selected group of members. I received a set and would never forward them to any person who I did not trust to use them ethically. There is a difference between legally and ethically.
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:31 AM   #41
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When I was a member, many had complained about not being able to communicate with the IBT. Good times for all because that has changed. You now have the Twink speaking for them...
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Why didn't they launch any lifeboats back in the year 2010?

I'm still weeping about you two putting a hole in my model and sinking it.

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Old 04-05-2010, 12:00 PM   #42
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As a point of reference, a member friend of mine pointed this out which I'm told is located on page two of the member directory:

Quote:
The membership list of the Wally Byam Caravan Club International, Inc. and each unit affiliated therewith, are confidential information for use only as therein stated. The information contained in any membership list may be used for personal correspondence by any member, for use by Wally Byam Caravan Club, and any licensees of the foregoing, where such license appears in writing signed by an appropriate official of any of the foregoing entities. No membership list may be used by any other person, firm, or commercial entity for any purpose whatsoever.
Of course lawyers would argue this because that's what they do, but it does seem fairly clear to me that this was in no way a "personal correspondence"...and dwightdi is right there is a difference between ethically and legally.
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