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Old 02-13-2006, 09:25 PM   #1
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AOAI Official Announcement

Sorry - didn't mean to get your hopes up, but we just got our February Blue Beret and I paged thru it to find the official announcement that a Name Vote would be coming up soon and all the supporting details. The only mention I found of a name change was in the Presidents Corner message on the inside cover, down at the end of that message, well below where he states "Be proud to be in WBCCI" or something very similar. I've got to say I was disappointed, but given publishing dealines, maybe the Presidents Corner was the only thing that wasn't set before the IBT meeting. Anyway, I will certainly keep my eyes out for an announcement in the March BB.

I will also note that over the weekend I was looking at some older BB's, and in the August 2005 issue there was an article on Page 10 talking about the name change and the establishment of the Name Commitee. Here I found the statement:
"The committee's charter will provide the 2006 delegates cost and implementation data up front to assist them in making their decision and expedite implementation".

I find it interesting that this information is to be provided to the "delegates" and not the full membership, and that it is to assist them (the delegates?) in making their decision. Or is it that the delegates are supposed to trickle this information down to the individual members?

Anyway, I hope this was just a misstatement and that all of this information will be forthcoming soon to the full membership, but you never know.
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Old 02-13-2006, 10:34 PM   #2
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the minutes i've read from the various units that put them on line, suggest the delagates approved the name change and forwarded the motion on for a full vote at the international in june in oregon. seems folks who were at the winter meeting have posted here and also report the change has been forwarded on for a vote in oregon. even the chair? of the name change committee has posted here a couple of times... to confirm this, but having been treated badly....has stopped. delagates are to and have been reporting back to local units....the mechanics for doing this vary widely no doubt...the luncheons, newsletters, web sites and so are have been used...

http://www.wbcci.org/Forum/viewmessa...m=13&Topic=149

http://ntxac.org/Jan06.pdf

http://wbregion9.org/news0206.html

just a couple of the spots with info..

cheers
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Old 02-13-2006, 10:56 PM   #3
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Yeah, I've seen some of those before and similar from one of the units I belong to, but I was hoping to see something official from "On High" at WBCCI, free of any personal interpretations and such. I think that's what was promised last year. I'm just waiting. We've all seen the "selected" name, but not the associated costs and proposed time frame and other implementation details.

Enquiring Minds Want to Know!

By the way, that's for the reply.
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:08 PM   #4
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you are welcome.....

i doubt there will be a mass/member mailing with this info or a voting mechanism....the wb looks to be a representative democracy ...so the delegates are the links..... both ways...

that last newsletter link above does have the "official proposals" clearly worded...

as for official wbcci wording....
i would expect the international rally packets for the legislative sections...WILL have the official wording of the proposal, the deligate approval and the voting/meeting schedule at the rally...and maybe this material will be online before the june rally....seems more and more of the international rally info is on line now.

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Old 02-13-2006, 11:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
seems more and more of the international rally info is on line now.
Where?

WBCCI has just a few PDF's at their official international page. I started my own web notebook to try to get what I can find in one place. I find that the email addresses in the BB are incorrect for some of the committe folks. Is anyone else collecting links and content for a coherent and organized collection related to the Salem Rally?
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:59 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Leipper
Where? WBCCI has just a few PDF's at their official international page. I started my own web notebook to try to get what I can find in one place. I find that the email addresses in the BB are incorrect for some of the committe folks. Is anyone else collecting links and content for a coherent and organized collection related to the Salem Rally?



bryan

i'll assume you are asking this question for genuine reasons....rather than just for the sake of arguement.....

i'm impressed that the wb has any pdf docs on line, the application and so on....just the list of activities is several pages....and since it will no doubt change....some will complain that it's not correct....

the fairgrounds is on the web, so too the city, google earth lets us see the terrain....although oregons maps are not high res...

you can locate most of the resturants, merchants, streets, attractions...and so on. campgrounds, truckstops....

several of the local units have started adding info about the int and their caravans to go there.....

so compared to last year...there is lots more on the web related to the international for this year....

if you really want a group effort,

why not start a new thread (since this one will likely become another blah, blah the wb...)
just for that purpose....get your finds up and others can add....

and the ducks & beavers near salem's lot,
can report on where to eat, play and tour....

why wait for the wb staff to do this....except for the most wb specific details?

cheers
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Old 02-14-2006, 01:22 AM   #7
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Fwiw

We live 45 miles from Salem and are somewhat familiar with the territory. We're registered for the International in the first-timers section with generators and pets (hope we're not too far from the action). I just printed out the "WBCCI Daily Activities Schedule" for the rally in Salem. Now I can highlight some of the things we really want to see. It doesn't give you any description of what will take place or who are presenting the activities, but should give us an initial direction of where we might spend our time.

As to my own unit (Western Oregon), I plan to attend my first luncheon this Saturday to see what's up with the name change and other happenings in our unit. It should be interesting. I have attended two rallies last year that were basically "parking lot rallies" that we did not enjoy. So plan to make some suggestions to the "powers to be" and offer my body for sacrificial assignments in the upcoming year!
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Old 02-14-2006, 08:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
you are welcome.....

as for official wbcci wording....
i would expect the international rally packets for the legislative sections...WILL have the official wording of the proposal, the deligate approval and the voting/meeting schedule at the rally...and maybe this material will be online before the june rally....seems more and more of the international rally info is on line now.

cheers
2air'
When the information on the proposed name change appeared on the forum, I checked the WBCCI web site for official information about IBT. Of course, found nothing. I then sent an e-mail to the office asking why I had to find this information on the forums, and not on the official web site. The answer was that it would be in the BB. My reply was that this was DUMB and that kind of thinking is what is driving the younger people away. No reply. I got my February BB and the only mention is in the presidents column, as was mentioned above. That is unfortunately what I would expect, keep it hidden. OK to spend many pages repeating the same old stuff about International, but no space for something important. SOS
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Old 02-14-2006, 09:17 AM   #9
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2air,

I guess that is part of the problem. There is a question about whether a query is 'as-is' or flamebait. Perceptions are so tainted it is difficult to have an honest discussion.

What I am thinking about is ease of access to information and being able to have information presented in such a way that questions you didn't know to ask get answered anyway.

Burning Man http://www.burningman.com/preparation/ is an example of this for a rally. Use that site as a reference for comparison to what WBCCI is doing in terms of completeness, organization, classification, categorization, accessibility, and even style.

You mentioned three sites for the name change debate. How would one find these (google AOAI doesn't do it)? How did you find them? Did it take special knowledge? a lot of work? a special expertise? Shouldn't such things be readily available to those without such costs?

The 'start your own thread' - 'wow, its in PDF!' - and similar rationalizations are what we have encountered for more than ten years. Making information available to members, easy to find, complete, up to date, and useful is critical for an organization's health. A simple schedule of events with no cross referencing or indexing means it is very easy to miss something. Why not have a list of IBT meetings, a list of Region meetings, A list of multi-part courses. Why not have an abstract for each of these things and a 'why you should attend'?

IMHO, much of the whole name change bad feeling is due to how difficult it is to find out what is really happening. That leads to ignorance, conspiracy theories, contempt for leaders, suspicion, and a feeling of being left out. The WBCCI does not use the web effectively. I am not talking super webmaster geekdom but rather basic secretarial and librarian knowledge of filing, classification, file formats, completeness, access, and so on.

The fact is that there is obviously something not right. Rationalizing how things are currently done is not going to address any problems. Instead we need to look at what can be changed, easily changed, - and this includes our own perceptions and attitudes - and look for ways to put things right.
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Old 02-14-2006, 09:39 AM   #10
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The debate about the name really doesn't get me excited too much. There's the old adage "what's in a name". I think the new name could have some positive effects and make the club more recognizable to non airstreamers. That would be a good thing wouldn't it? Of course there is the problem of not recognizing Wally for his invention of the Airstream. But, isn't his name still in the new name? I really don't think he would rather see his club die than change for the future.

Here is the real problem I see. In fighting over the name, you join the old stogies that always fight to keep things the way they are. That is what is really wrong with the club. The club needs to evolve over time, and it isn't. I am discouraged by the vitriolic rhetoric that anyone that comments on the need to change draws. This is not a good exchange of ideas going on here. This is a group of members who enjoy the debate and want to win at any cost. That cost could even be the end of the club. I have commented in the past and was surprised by the rhetoric that came back at me. I know that I will draw some more and I no longer pay much attention about that.

I watched the polls and you surely didn't come close to getting even a small percentage of the over 10,000 members of this forum to respond. I doubt you represent a very large percentage of WBCCI members either. The Officers do, and it is their job.

Like I said, I don't care one way or the other. It's just a name, I do feel that the club needs to change in many ways, and I'll guarantee you that folks that might cause change in a positive way, read these posts and say "no way am I opening myself for that kind of abuse".
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Old 02-14-2006, 01:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper
The fact is that there is obviously something not right. Rationalizing how things are currently done is not going to address any problems. Instead we need to look at what can be changed, easily changed, - and this includes our own perceptions and attitudes - and look for ways to put things right.
bryan
i'm no defender of the wb....the numbers on my trailer are barely dry....and as someone said in another thread.....i usually go camping to escape groups...i have no interest in 98% of the wb activities....and think the old name is fine, the new name is fine, a better name is fine.....fine.

since i first looked at joining 25+ years ago (and was rejected) it has been and still is crystal clear what the main focus of the club is and who the target group is....and i am not the target....

for younger a/s folks who have different camping needs....start a new chapter...or start a new club.

the futility of many posting the shortcomings of the wb is that they want a club that's been doing what it does for 50 years....to somehow remake itself for them....and use the "decline theory" to justify that desire...

just grow a new club!

if the <5% who might have an interest in the wb, if things were tweaked for them.....were in power.....how would the 95+% and lifetime members feel?

burning man is a great example of starting with a clean slate and no tradition or history....and doing it just like needed....for those that will use it.

are you even going to the international?

if so.............

start a thread and get folks posting the details you want....in a way you want....when the work is done, offer it up to the wb, so they have a starting point for next year....

i am not suggesting the grass roots creation of an all inclusive salem/international thread..........
as any rationalization for the wb shortcomings....i'm being pragmatic....

last spring, before springfield i read lots of neat post here from springfield locals....with suggestions on food, sites, weather and so on....there were also threads on 'first timers/faqs' for the big rally...and lots of great info.

just get this thread going now (a local in this misleading thread is already willing to help)....build the thread and you will be "putting things right" as you suggest in the quote above.....

an honest discussion of the salem rally....is that what you want?

or do you want an honest discussion of the name change....the club shortcomings....the club web site, what new members want, what family members need, local units? those threads are already going and full of blah, blah, and blah.

cheers
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Old 02-14-2006, 02:42 PM   #12
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re "the futility of many posting the shortcomings of the wb" - this is why we need to be constructive and make suggestions and listen to ideas.

re "just grow a new club!" - been there done that, am third generation at doing that in WBCCI, and having a great time with some wonderful folks.

re "are you even going to the international?" - that's why I am putting together my notebook and sharing it with others.

re "start a thread and get folks posting the details you want" - been there, done that, too. Have one going, have even received a few responses.

re "an honest discussion of the salem rally....is that what you want?" - no. I am looking for answers to questions such as how gray water will be handled and for tidbits I might otherwise miss or for a coherent collection of the kinds of information you described.

re "or do you want an honest discussion of the name change" - I am more interested in the message that started this thread. I see that as being one of miscommunications and barriers towards becoming easily and fully informed. I am trying to offer suggestions about how everyone can help inform themselves and help others in the process. I am looking to find out how those who do seem to have information found it and educated themselves so that others can do it, too.
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Old 02-14-2006, 05:42 PM   #13
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well bryan....

it seems obvious now. i've steppen in it....

sorry if post 2 didn't answer your question about the current status of aoaii....i provided a few links with the goods....

i think the message another offered...that wb folks do not have their panties in a twist....over the name change is the best summary and visual...

you have a thread somewhere on info and essentials for the international? i don't seem to find it? maybe this is a wiki project......hmmmmmm.

where should i look?...perhaps it's part of that wonderful nevada wb website? really great stuff there...i'll have to go take a look....

so you are sharing your e note book? where?

you really want to know how june waste water will be handled....now?

don't you suppose g/b water will be handled like it has been at virtually every recent international rally?

a have seen a couple of excellent resources for international first timers....with tips on what to expect, how to arrive, get settled in, what to bring and so on......but since you are 3rd generation wb and all that.....surely you've got all this info and more...

so now i understand why you posted...and i'll step out.

cheers and have a great time at the big rally....

i may be there too, or nearby, so perhaps we all will share a beverage some afternoon.

2air'
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Old 02-14-2006, 06:52 PM   #14
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re "so you are sharing your e note book? where?"
http://sierranevadaairstreams.org/sn...ational-rally/

re " don't you suppose g/b water will be handled like it has been at virtually every recent international rally?"
making assumptions is dangerous. My last experience was at Boise. I don't quite see how dumping gray water on the ground in downtown Salem is going to work. It looks like the site will be Fairground parking lots. But I don't know. The FirstTimer's PDF only says about the honey wagon for black tanks. I didn't see anything about gray waste disposal.

Another one: how are we going to be able to keep up this conversation while at the International Rally? Does the Fairground have wifi or something?

A cardinal rule in associations if they want to remain healthy is that there should be no surprises. Participants should not have to guess or make assumptions. The answers to questions should be readily available and provided without snide remarks or other judgment. Information needs to be complete and accurate and properly qualified. Publications like the First Timer's guide needs to be considered a promise (in my experience, it isn't).

The whole name brouhaha is, IMHO, because a bunch of folks got surprised and were left out of the loop and then subject to snide remarks. That kind of thing tends to be a positive feedback loop that can get out of hand and be hard to stop. It destroys friendships. And that is a tragedy.
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