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Old 02-14-2006, 07:17 PM   #15
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In Springfield, they emptied both black and grey with the honey wagon, every 2-3 days. First the black, then the grey for obvious reasons. If you are w/o grey like we are, we used a blue belly and emptied it as needed at the sewer dump station nearby. The were also potta-pottys strategically placeed if you filled your tanks between dumps, which were always well maintained, except for the one morning we awoke to the "treats" left behind by "somebody unknown" who decided they couldn't make it to the dump station with their blue belly full of black water and decided to dump it in the porta potty instead! Yuck! I really feel for the volunteer that got to clean that one up...it was a done deal in a couple of hours ~ what a trooper!

Shari
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Old 02-14-2006, 10:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperhawk
Of course there is the problem of not recognizing Wally for his invention of the Airstream. But, isn't his name still in the new name? I really don't think he would rather see his club die than change for the future.

Actually, the proposed name Airstream Owners Association International does NOT include Wally's name. As for the club dying, the name is not the main problem to be addressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperhawk
Here is the real problem I see. In fighting over the name, you join the old stogies that always fight to keep things the way they are. That is what is really wrong with the club.
Actually, most of the people I know that are against AOAI (many of which are infrequent visitor here or have never visited ASForums), are actually YOUNGER than your average WBCCI member. Most are still working!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperhawk
The club needs to evolve over time, and it isn't. I am discouraged by the vitriolic rhetoric that anyone that comments on the need to change draws. This is not a good exchange of ideas going on here. This is a group of members who enjoy the debate and want to win at any cost. That cost could even be the end of the club. I have commented in the past and was surprised by the rhetoric that came back at me. I know that I will draw some more and I no longer pay much attention about that.
I think you see so much posted here about all aspects of WBCCI because their internet forum is basically non-existant, and the other options available to discuss these issues and elevate them to WBCCI leadership are very limited. And when good information gets to WBCCI leadership (you should see all of the written in comments that WBCCI received when they took that survey back in 2004), they are not promptly acting on them. I think people are just frustrated at the slow pace of real change. Changing the club name does not address the fundemental issues, but it is good window dressing. It gives the illusion of progress without taking much effort (in comparision to real change).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperhawk
I do feel that the club needs to change in many ways, and I'll guarantee you that folks that might cause change in a positive way, read these posts and say "no way am I opening myself for that kind of abuse".

What abuse? Many members have offered many positive suggestions on this Forum as to ways WBCCI could change to attract (and more importantly retain) new members. Now if a "suggestion" was offered in anger, it probably would provoke a like response. I guess you get what you sow as far a coutesy on any internet forum is concerned. The bigger problem is that WBCCI doesn't have a good channel for members to discuss and elevate these issues. What is discussed here doesn't directly cause any change in WBCCI, because it's officers are not frequently here. The best we can hope for is that discussion here moves some WBCCI members to do more and propose more in the avenues open to them within WBCCI. These discussions allow thoughts and ideas that they may act upon to be refined to make them more focused. Yes, these discussions sometimes degrade into angry dialogs, but even those are much nicer than you will find on many other (non-Airstream) forums. I think the people here are for the most part well behaved, and the Moderators do a good job keeping order. No one really need fear offering an opinion, if done in a friendly and honest manner.
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Old 02-15-2006, 12:00 AM   #17
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From a Gen-X'er

I have been following some of this discussion because of my lifelong affliation with Airstreams and most things Airstream.

It seems that the push for the name change is to try to draw younger people into the organization.

My parents were in the WBCCI when I was a kid. They were members for 20 years. They left for the same reasons I never joined when I came of age.

1. The WBCCI events are mostly driven by retirees. The luncheons and local rallies are mostly held during inconvenient times for people with young children.

2. The "regiment" of the WBCCI rallies are seldom conducive to young families.

3. The cost of even the smallest local rally may seem inexpensive to some but when you have children and very few, if any, of the events include them or capture their interest it is not worth the cost. I would rather spend my money on a water park near a family-oriented campground.

4. I hear the argument that that WBCCI cannot change unless people like myself join and participate. At the cost of membership plus the fees for rallies and dinners it is impossible to join. Plus, I do not want to join something just to make it change to fit me and my family.

If none of my points are true then something needs to be done to address why people like me have the views we do of the WBCCI. I am not attacking it. I just know what most people my age with young children think. Maybe it is wrong. I do know that when I add up the costs I can do a lot for my family outside of the WBCCI with that money.

A name change will not change the way people with kids feel about the WBCCI. They are going to be hard-pressed to attract anyone unless they change the venue of the rallies and other events.
I may be looking at this through different eyes than most of the WBCCI membership but you have to put yourself in my shoes. If my girls are not enjoying themselves I might as well be throwing the money out of the window on my way to a rally.

I like the spirit and history of the WBCCI but I do not see the value my family would gain from membership in it.
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Old 02-15-2006, 12:48 AM   #18
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hello pattersontoo

you have well summarized how many feel...young with children, the still working and others.

and you may be spot on in suggesting that young folks don't need a club like this in todays world...

the wbcci really is an assoication for retirees with airstreams who want to caravan and rally.

there are intra clubs....singles, vintage and so on....perhaps there needs to be an intraclub for 'married with children' boomers, tweeners' , x'er and y'ers.
an intra club than could focus on the value items for your demographic...would this work? has it been considered? i have no idea, but still it would require volunteers with a vested interest to drive it.

i have no idea if any name change would help and don't know the motivation for name change....

here is a polyanna theory....
currently it's a "cc" caravanners club....perhaps changing the name is the first brick to fall in transforming the club into an airstream owners club...with broader interests, vendor support and other infusions as yet unknown.

a name change could carry the message that change is coming in other ways and that the blue beret focus and long trip/rally focus is going to be subplanted by the wants and needs of a different demographic...you. and that info will be relayed to members in a better way. and that pomp, ritual and climbing to a level of influence....done like so many clubs for that era.... gives way to a newer/better process for direction and decision making....many bricks could fall once the process starts...and perhaps the name is the symbolic beginning...

eventually the airstream owners association could have a subgroup for the retirees that presently are the main focus. and a different local structure for younger member needs....

while voting membership may not care much about the name change they do care passionately about fees and other costs....and have run the organization on a thread....perhaps the new name will bring new money (from who knows) and help from folks who are successful running other travel clubs....

i did say polyanna... and i often remind myself.....it's just campin' folks...

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-15-2006, 06:26 PM   #19
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Thumbs up Well said Lou and 2air

I agree, I would never expect a club to change for me, and I surely wouldn't go out of my way to be uncomfortable on what is the family leisure and fun time...and really it is just camping after all...
I really think the forum rallies are for us-- like the Metro Detroit one for example, sound more appropriate for this streamin family.
I vote with my dollars too, now that doesn't mean I'll stop making FICA contributions but it won't be going for WBCCI, hey maybe there's a caravan club name in that FICA and Future FICA contributors caravan? No offense meant to anyone.
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Old 02-15-2006, 06:51 PM   #20
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We started with WBCCI when our sons were 5 and 10 years old. The members of the unit we joined were all old eough to be our parents and we were the only ones with young children. We didn't expect them to accomodate us, we made our plans around them. In return, our sons had many "grandparents" there. We had a great time with C.R.E.U. and the day we told them we were being transferred, we all cried. Our sons are now married and still talk about the great times we had with them. One weekend a month with all those grandparents was not enough....
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Old 02-15-2006, 09:07 PM   #21
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I am sure that my name will come up when discussions refer to the Name Change. And of course I am not going any further here- because all that can be said has.

But if there are any people out their questioning my intent or have been offended from my dry/blunt/yes sometimes angry and frustrated comments - it is not directed at anyone personally (unless of course they have poked at me personally).

My foremost concern - with this issue is the "PROCESS" and many even in this thread have pointed out - the grounds of the problem - communication - or better still lack there of.

We are seeing it even today confusion as to the chain of "command/information" when the IBT refers to the Delegate - This is intended as the President of the Units. However the way things are expressed through these threads/post, region and unit minutes provided by various forum and wbcci members - all give the impression that the issue goes straight to the delegates meeting.

That is where the vote of the delegates will take place.

The vote of the regular members will take place in their Unit Spring Rally Business meeting.

The IBT along with the WBCCI Office has to be accountable in sending the Presidents of Each Unit adequate information surrounding their motions - in order for the Presidents to communicate with his or her members.

...And I think this is where some members here are more than discouraged because they either did not hear or see the information at their Unit level or in some cases DID NOT get it via their own President prior to both delegate meetings.

It is this supporting information that "we" used in a broad sense - are all waiting for......

And if my big mouth has even got a few people to think a little about this situation then I am happy.
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Old 02-20-2006, 08:14 PM   #22
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Steph, you are too funny!

I agree that we should all join a FICA contributors caravan club!
I love the WBCCI but I just cannot afford the fees and do the things my kids love to do.
I had a good time when I was a kid too when we went to rallies. We never got to go to the luncheons because they were always on a weekday in the early afternoon.
Still, I am not out to change the WBCCI.
I am not a member of any organization that does not interest me or my family. I would not join one just to try to change it either.
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Old 03-06-2006, 05:29 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander
Anyway, I hope this was just a misstatement and that all of this information will be forthcoming soon to the full membership, but you never know.
hi 66o' and others interested in the name change issue.......

the march bb arrived today,
with a pretty complete note on name selection study and the committee process....
it is called a "slightly abbreviated copy" of the study....
but seems to hit the key points...
for me anyway.

the complete study, with all its annexes was mailed to all unit presidents...
so if ya need more details....
seems the unit pres. is the contact...

this piece in the bb covers the task (it's history), historical facts relating to the process, a summary of the membership feedback, the name options, the logo, the phase in process if approved, costs and legaleze...
and the final committe recommendations and ibt approval.

no mention of how the membership vote will be conducted (seems i read units use a variety of methods) but it does mention that the delegates cast the deciding votes at the june/06 international....(thank you r.b. bernd for the clarity)

just an update....

also, the cover phote is 'warm looking' with wb# 30003 in tow;
a little bio on a 93 year old airstreamer,
the sun valley jazz fest reads like it was fun....
and there is a new dealer with an ad...
mountain family rv in reno nevada.....cool
also several pages on the international.....
with knitting, quilting, scrapbookin' and a wholesome assortment of tours.....
ozie and harriet would be thrilled.
the tillamook cheese factory IS a great day trip.....ummmmm
trips to the coast, mt saint helens and a winery or 2...
maybe i will go.....

ya know it's not 'airlife'.....but this is a pretty good issue.

thank you wbcci staff for doing this work...

cheers
2air'
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Old 03-06-2006, 05:41 PM   #24
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Thanks for the update.Having just received my February Blue Beret on Friday,I guess I'll have to wait another month to read the March issue myself.Good to hear our Reno,Nevada dealer has an ad in the issue.
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:38 PM   #25
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Wow - I just got my Feb issue as well. I had no idea other people got theirs a month ahead of me! I guess in a month I'll read the article myself!
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:43 PM   #26
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They are mailed bulk rate...thus the disparity in arrival dates, I presume.

Shari
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:45 PM   #27
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A little off topic, but I did notice this issue was printed on a higher quality paper, and did not arrive looking like it had been chewed on by wild dogs, which was nice.
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Old 03-06-2006, 07:24 PM   #28
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I guess I'll read it whenever mine arrives... I know they have to send it via bulk mail, but I think I could have walked to Jackson Center, picked up my issue, and walked home by now.
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