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Old 01-28-2011, 03:26 PM   #99
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Here's a new constitution to consider; all the units vote to secede from the IBT's rule and have the unit and region delegates work together for the members. For the life of me I cannot see what the IBT or more specifically the EC, adds to the experience or what units need with them at all. What do they do for the general membership if anything? So to be tethered by their proclaimations and hand over whatever dues is stipulated seems unnecessary if the majority has had it with this style of governance. The Classic Airstream Club and VAC are really all that is needed. Let the International Club travel on the million in whatever they please but stop giving them more and asking permission and assigning them executive power.Take back the control of the Airstream club that they don't even care about.
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:30 PM   #100
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The new constitution has to be accepted under the current constitution. So it's still 2/3.
The current constitution has no provision for replacing it. Don't count on a 2/3 majority being required.

An entirely new constitution and bylaws (if that is what it will be - there seems to some hint that it will just be bylaws) is a new club. We won't be the old club. I have to wonder about Ohio articles of incorporation. How would that be affected?
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:41 PM   #101
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The current constitution has no provision for replacing it. Don't count on a 2/3 majority being required.
Well, the truth is, don't count on anything about the WBCCI.

As Mistral Blue is fond of pointing out, the Executive Committee is an unreviewable power. The IP can simply decree that the new constitution is in place, and who can say him nay?

In fact, we kinda just saw a demonstration of that.
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:42 PM   #102
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For the life of me I cannot see what the IBT or more specifically the EC, adds to the experience or what units need with them at all. What do they do for us if anything?
I agree, excellent question. What will we be getting next year for $75 (I think the dues go up another $10)?

Other than the International Rally and Blue Beret, what do we get? What we enjoy most from the club are our Unit activities. These are the people we travel with, break bread with, rally with. All International has been is a big pain in the you know what.

If we didn't have the International officers what would we do differently? Oh, that's right, we'd just have fun, fellowship, travel and adventure. The ONLY thing that has kept us in the Club is our Unit.
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:55 PM   #103
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See, for them to be successful they need to find a way to break that Airstream only requirement, regardless of the details.
Yep...

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Go viral and if you get yourself tossed out in the process -- it's far easier than simply walking away.
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Old 01-28-2011, 08:24 PM   #104
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To really know how to replace the constitution with a new one, it would be good to read the Articles of Incorporation and Ohio corporate law to see if there's anything about replacing the documents. Otherwise, it appears the amendment process in the present constitution can be used to just amend the whole thing. Unless the present constitution has a different process for replacing the whole thing, you can amend everything after the word "Constitution". And if there were a different process, maybe they could amend that first. For what it's worth, the WBCCI "constitution" legally would be considered "bylaws" and the bylaws would be below that in authority. The Articles of Incorporation are equivalent to a constitution, bylaws are like statutes and anything else (what the WBCCI calls "bylaws") would be like regulations. Corporate governance parallels government structures and were copied from them.

Going back to the 1780's, when the Congress recognized the Articles of Confederation weren't working, they called a convention to propose amendments to it. The delegates to that convention ignored the call, wrote a document with a strong central government, executive, judiciary and Congress and submitted it directly to the states. It did not require a majority vote of the states to adopt it and the Continental Congress was also ignored. That was the 2nd American Revolution. The Articles were forgotten but strict construction might be the Articles are still the national government and the "founding fathers" usurped it. For the WBCCI leaders to simply decree a different method to replace the document also would be revolutionary and illegal. But they can amend the whole thing. More historical trivia: If you believe the Articles government is the true government, then Ohio isn't a state but is part of the Northwest Territory and probably has no corporate law. Since Congress didn't formally accept Ohio into the union in 1803 when it was presumably admitted by the "revolutionary" government, you could argue Ohio still isn't a state, but the "revolutionary" Congress cured that in 1953, retroactively admitting Ohio again. What does this have to do with the WBCCI? Not much, but if Ohio weren't a state, Warren Harding and William McKinley wouldn't have been president and John Kerry would have been.

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Old 01-28-2011, 08:38 PM   #105
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... if Ohio weren't a state, Warren Harding and William McKinley wouldn't have been president and John Kerry would have been.

Gene
You forgot Ulysses S. Grant, Rutherford B. Hayes, James A. Garfield, Benjamin Harrison, and William Howard Taft.
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Old 01-28-2011, 08:56 PM   #106
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To really know how to replace the constitution with a new one, it would be good to read the Articles of Incorporation and Ohio corporate law to see if there's anything about replacing the documents. Otherwise, it appears the amendment process in the present constitution can be used to just amend the whole thing. Unless the present constitution has a different process for replacing the whole thing, you can amend everything after the word "Constitution".
I don't see that replacement is anything different than amendment--thereby requiring a 2/3 majority under the constitution in effect at the time of the proposed replacement--but it doesn't matter. The Executive Committee can do anything they want and nobody can stop 'em short of a lawsuit, and frankly, I'm not sure it's worth the trouble.

They can have their club and I'm going camping and traveling with my friends. (I guess if we travel together and don't call it a "caravan" we won't get a letter from their lawyers.)

Everything I've incorporated, the lawyers have told us to make the Articles of Incorporation as minimal as the Secretary of State will allow, so as to avoid tripping over them later. In the states I've incorporated, the Secretaries of State didn't seem to mind very minimal AoI's.

Here's WBCCI's :

http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/reports/...&Din=D067_1917

Also an amendment when they changed the name in 1963
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/reports/...&Din=B333_0441
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:10 AM   #107
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I hope none of you missed that Treasurer Bob Moss made a "motion", but that the President ignored it altogether.
One almost wonders if every member couldn't file a grievance against the leadership for the misdeeds of Friday's business. It certainly was not ethical or constitutional in its actions. There ought to be a removal or change in leadership over such serious and deliberate infractions as occurred.
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:17 AM   #108
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Can anybody say "Vote No Confidence"? I see a t-shirt coming for International.
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Old 01-29-2011, 06:21 AM   #109
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One almost wonders if every member couldn't file a grievance against the leadership for the misdeeds of Friday's business. It certainly was not ethical or constitutional in its actions. There ought to be a removal or change in leadership over such serious and deliberate infractions as occurred.

But file a grievance WITH WHO? They make, interpret and enforce the rules, and are not even good for their word. Are they going to apply sanctions against THEMSELVES? I don't think so.


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Old 01-29-2011, 08:59 AM   #110
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True. Once I thought that arbitration outside of the WBCCI held out hope for members but now I just feel squelched. Someone should write a victims impact statement for the general membership. Flying flags and marching on stage, the pats on the back and all the special recognition is a tough act to witness, and I do mean act. It seems all that is left to do is to complete the total disconnect that leadership initiated. I can't "renew and be their friends." I am ashamed of the behavior I have witnessed. They think the club is sullied by negativism from membership being critical, well that was the best of motivation increasing involvement and trying to work towards a better club. What truely has sullied the club is the deceit and duplicity of their conduct. Leo's right, the history and legacy of Wally Byam isn't meted out with a payment of WBCCI dues, it belongs to all of us.
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Old 01-29-2011, 10:42 AM   #111
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I'm so sad from fridays event, I can't further comment. Just can't! Done!
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:18 AM   #112
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