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Old 04-22-2012, 09:31 PM   #379
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Quick question, does anyone know the order in which the three main motions will come up for a vote and does one "overwrite" the other? And I'm not talking about the motions to change the "Revised Constitution"

I'm talking about MOHO, Denver and Revised.

Example:
If the MOHO motion is passed, then say the Denver Motion is passed making changes to the current WBCCI Constitution we could then have different MOHO's in the club with the membership having a little more say over the IBT/By-Laws.

But then, the Revised Constitution comes up for a vote and gets voted in does that then at the end of the day, wipe out the inclusion of other brands of MOHO's and the changes made by the Denver motion?

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Old 04-23-2012, 06:02 AM   #380
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Compairing the WBCCI and the Airforums is apples and oranges. Like they say, if you have to ask you would not understand. Both have a place, but are two dif things. I enjoy each. jim
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:10 AM   #381
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Quick question, does anyone know the order in which the three main motions will come up for a vote and does one "overwrite" the other? And I'm not talking about the motions to change the "Revised Constitution"

I'm talking about MOHO, Denver and Revised.
There are only two motions on the agenda for the Delegates Meeting, the revised constitution and the motor home amendment.

The "Denver" amendment is following a different path--direct ratification by the units--and either will or will not have been ratified by the time of the Delegates Meeting. The deadline is one year after it was sent to the units, which I believe is coming up in May.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:23 AM   #382
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What I have seen so far as the agenda for the International is the Revision first and the MOHO second. The Denver Amendment will not come on the floor because of the tract it is taking. The Denver Amendment is a direct vote by the units and reported to Jackson Center.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:07 AM   #383
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OK,

On the same logic, since the Denver motion is based on the current WBCCI Constitution, what happens to it if the Revised Constitution is voted in?

The "striking of this word" for "place of that word" is no longer correct. How will that be handled?

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Old 04-23-2012, 09:52 AM   #384
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It seems you want an exclusive organization, not an inclusive one. If I had been a member for years and established friendships within a club, I'd try to save it too. The more I read, the more it becomes clear why people leave and many never want to join.
I've been a member for less than a year, having joined right after I got my Airstream. The fact that it is an exclusive club for Airstream owners was part of the appeal (which should tell you which way I voted on the MOHO issue). For all its exclusivity WBCCI is still an eclectic group, consisting of full-timers, weekenders, retirees, employed, self-employed, trailer owners, motorhome owners, wealthy, not-so-wealthy, etc., and that's just as appealing.

I've spent my entire career in Federal civil service, and I've seen the best and worst that bureaucracy has to offer over the past 30-some years. I'll tell everyone in WBCCI that I personally never want to hold a club office; experience has taught me that I don't belong at that bureaucratic level. Not wanting to be one of the movers and shakers, and having no vested interest in the old way of doing things, I was able to evaluate the revisions analytically— not emotionally— before voting.

I was only at my second meeting when the revisions came up for Unit vote, but based on my reading of the revisions, most of the proposed parlaimentary procedures make sense. However, there's still room for improvement even after the revisions are adopted (if indeed they are adopted). For example, I do wonder why even with the revisions the delegates have to act as a sort of electoral college, delivering their unit's votes, instead of everybody voting electronically like the members-at-large, but that's a discussion for another time.

Maybe I just came into the club at an inopportune time, but between when I joined and when I voted, I only saw the actual language of the revisions, in all their legalese and bureaucratic glory. I never saw a plain-language summary of "what does this mean for you." I had to figure it out for myself. Below is my interpretation of what it all means for the Joe-Average member:
  • For the rank-and-file who don't hold a club office, the revisions will be mostly transparent; the revisions have more effect on the office-holders, with some shifting and redefinition of responsibilities.
  • The non-office-holders most affected seem to be the members-at-large, who with the revisions will be allowed to vote on WBCCI issues electronically, directly to WBCCI headquarters.
  • Votes on future changes to the WBCCI constitution will have to be 2/3 majority rather than simple majority, and 20% of any given unit has to be present to establish a quorum for a vote.
Those of you who have more experience in WBCCI bureaucracy, was the summary above a reasonable interpretation?
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:16 AM   #385
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Those of you who have more experience in WBCCI bureaucracy, was the summary above a reasonable interpretation?
Changes to the constitution have always been by a 2/3 vote.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:28 AM   #386
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If the Revision is approved, neither the Motorhome Amendment nor the DenCo Amendment would apply. The base document will no longer be the same.

There is a proposed change to the Revision that would essentially add the DenCo change. As for the Motorhome Amendment, I hope the Unit votes are tabulated, anyway. The membership has been asked to vote and their voice should be heard.

My opinion.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:34 AM   #387
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I would assume that anything dealing with the old Constitution would go with the old Constitution.

The bigger problem is the Denver Amendment was mailed to the unit Presidents last May 20th and many of the current unit Presidents have no knowledge of its existence and thus no action or consideration is happening.

Since the Constitution gives any amendment introduced in the manor the Denver one was introduced one year it may not pass because of the lack of voting units.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:51 AM   #388
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The fact that it is an exclusive club for Airstream owners was part of the appeal (which should tell you which way I voted on the MOHO issue). For all its exclusivity WBCCI is still an eclectic group, consisting of full-timers, weekenders, retirees, employed, self-employed, trailer owners, motorhome owners, wealthy, not-so-wealthy, etc., and that's just as appealing.
Maybe I was unclear about inclusive vs. exclusive. First of all, I have no problem with an Airstream club being for people with Airstreams. I also like eclecticism—it is good to meet different people than I would ordinarily meet and see what we have in common (Airstreams may be the only thing in common sometimes).

However, I have read scores of posts about how the club leadership follows a narrow belief system coming from a generation or two in the past. This group appears to want to perpetuate their control through manipulation of the nominating rules, constitution and bylaws. Some people argue that the leaders want to force those who disagree with them out of the club so that there be "quality" members only. This is what I meant by exclusive.

I asked some simple questions yesterday afternoon asking what plans there were to take over and reform the organization. For that, I was flamed by a couple of members who seem mostly concerned whether someone is a member of the WBCCI or not, not whether they have something to say that might be worth listening to. This speaks of exclusivity and makes them look the same as the people they want to replace in the leadership.

If the constitution is changed, nothing will change much unless there are people willing to put in the long hours necessary to take control of the club and actually change it to make it inclusive, devoted to transparency, fiscally responsible, efficiently administered and flexible. If even suggesting that dedication and policies are necessary gets people flamed, no one will want to take part in the club to change it. Maybe things are going on quietly to do this and I hope so.

Since it was asked whether I'm going to join and reform the club, I'll answer, even though I am unsure the question was asked sincerely. No. I have a full life now, overfull at times, and cannot add more to it. Posting on the Forum offers breaks from everything else I do—it allows me to rest mind and body between projects and necessities. Now back to projects and necessities.

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Old 04-23-2012, 11:11 AM   #389
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There is no attempt to take over the Club but rather to correct an evolutionary process that has consolidated ALL POWER in the hands of a small self centered group that asks the membership to pay for their fun.

I trust you would agree that we can not control or correct the miss direction of our National, State or Local Governmental agencies so we are left addressing the one we think we have a chance with.

No one will be taken out and shot or tortured. As for future Leadership if they are willing to serve within the policies created by the Membership, and not by themselves, they will be welcomed.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:56 AM   #390
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This group appears to want to perpetuate their control through manipulation of the nominating rules, constitution and bylaws. Some people argue that the leaders want to force those who disagree with them out of the club so that there be "quality" members only. This is what I meant by exclusive.
I wouldn't call that "exclusive." I'd call that "elitist" and I'm with you on that. I was given to understand, when I joined, that the membership requirements were (1) own an Airstream and (2) pay the membership dues. If anyone ever tells me that there is a third requirement of (3) think the way we tell you to think, then I'll be gone so fast…

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I asked some simple questions yesterday afternoon asking what plans there were to take over and reform the organization. For that, I was flamed by a couple of members who seem mostly concerned whether someone is a member of the WBCCI or not, not whether they have something to say that might be worth listening to.
To some extent I can understand it; not agree, just understand. The phrase "take over" might have been poorly chosen, and I'm guilty of poor word choice far too often myself. However, if the membership conducts their discussions in a forum open to non-members, then they have to expect that non-members will chime in with their own opinions. You cannot hold a private conversation in a public place. And since those non-members are potential members, their (informed) opinions are equally valid to a membership that is looking to expand.

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If the constitution is changed, nothing will change much unless there are people willing to put in the long hours necessary to take control of the club and actually change it to make it inclusive, devoted to transparency, fiscally responsible, efficiently administered and flexible.
There is truth to this. A change to the WBCCI constitution does not automatically mean a change to the elected leadership.

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Since it was asked whether I'm going to join and reform the club, I'll answer, even though I am unsure the question was asked sincerely. No.
That's as it should be. Food critics don't have to be chefs, either, nor do movie critics have to be filmmakers. They just have to be interested in the quality of the final product. If WBCCI as a whole cannot accept opinions put forth by non-members, then maybe the group really is elitist.
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:11 PM   #391
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Quick question, does anyone know the order in which the three main motions will come up for a vote and does one "overwrite" the other? And I'm not talking about the motions to change the "Revised Constitution"
That order is subject to change beforehand I believe.

Denver as of now passing isn't good, if Forest was still in the fight it would have likely made it.

However, assuming arguendo, it would have been negated if the revision passed.

Said another way the last motion(s) overrides the previous.


Quote:
the membership having a little more say over the IBT/By-Laws.
This is a one time shot that will NEVER come again in motion # 2

The membership will have finally a say in the Bylaws. NEVER AGAIN

DELEGATE MOTION
WALLY BYAM CARAVAN CLUB INTERNATIONAL, INC
Motion/Item No. __2_ Meeting Date: July ____ 2012 Location: Sedalia MO
Motion: I move that the Revised Constitution be amended to include the right of the membership to review and approve or reject changes in the WBCCI Bylaws by the IBT and to amend the International Bylaws at an annual Delegates Meeting by amending the following Articles and
Sections of the Revised Constitution.

See entire motion

But it needs the revision to pass in some form or another, try and explain the importance of this at your unit meeting and be sure your delegate understands it.

Or contact wbcciRevision@gmail.com for more info


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