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Old 12-22-2009, 06:01 PM   #15
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Thank you, we will do that. All members have the opportunity to vote, if it gets that far?

Where does one find the rules, the Constitution, By-laws, etc? Once one is a member, one is privy to all of that, correct?

We will watch this post, please keep us all informed.
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Old 12-22-2009, 06:09 PM   #16
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Where does one find the rules, the Constitution, By-laws, etc?
Down towards the bottom of this page.
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Old 12-22-2009, 06:19 PM   #17
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Down towards the bottom of this page.
Thank you. I have been on that site several times in the past few days but never found this.

Maggie
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Old 12-31-2009, 07:00 AM   #18
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"The results of the “Frog Roundup IBT Rally” on January 19-23, 2010, could be the important turning point in the development or decline of the WBCCI. Lets hope the IP and IBT will not ignore the issues. " (JStanley on another thread)

Anybody planning to hand carry the amendments and attend? We would be willing to meet more knowledgeable others at this meeting in January, but simply don't know enough to attend on our own and make cogent, articulate arguments.
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Old 12-31-2009, 11:17 AM   #19
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Anybody planning to hand carry the amendments and attend? We would be willing to meet more knowledgeable others at this meeting in January, but simply don't know enough to attend on our own and make cogent, articulate arguments.
Unfortunately, it won't do any good to hand carry the amendment to the mid-winter IBT, unless or until a region has voted on it. Only then can that region's president propose it to the IBT. Otherwise, it will be out of order.

Other than as spectators, individual members do not participate in the Mid-Winter IBT, as it is an officers meeting.

Has anyone yet had the opportunity to discuss the motion with other members of their unit?
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Old 12-31-2009, 01:03 PM   #20
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Thanks, Forrest.

We didn't intend to try to get the IBT to do something next month, but thought someone might be going to raise the issues, display a presence, etc. We, of course, have zero knowledge as to how all of this works.

There is a Unit luncheon on January 10th, which is the date we head south and we are planning on attending/taking copies of your motions. I have spoken with one other interested and more knowledgeable member who may also attend.

If weather prevents our leaving that day, we have copied your motions onto a document and will be emailing them instead to the officers of our Unit for their perusal and consideration.

Any suggestions you have, please relay them on.

Maggie
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:41 AM   #21
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Due to the deep freeze we are experiencing in the MidWest, we will not be attending the January 10th luncheon, but instead driving as far south that day as we are able to get.

We have copied the issues raised in this thread onto a document, and sent them via email to our Unit President.
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:01 PM   #22
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Forrest is right, it won't do much good to bring a technical amendment to the meeting until and unless it's been approved by a region.

What would help, though, is if the same motion were approved and sent forward by a whole bunch of regions. This isn't going to happen that fast, but it would certainly be worth the effort to shoot for summer.


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Old 01-05-2010, 12:23 PM   #23
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Forrest, Have you sent this to the constitution & bylaws chairman? As soon as it is cleared it will be at a rally and in our newsletter.
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Old 01-06-2010, 12:32 AM   #24
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Forrest, Have you sent this to the constitution & bylaws chairman? As soon as it is cleared it will be at a rally and in our newsletter.
This question keeps popping up. No, I haven't and likely won't.

First off, WBCCI HQ is required to send a copy of the amendment to the C&B committee after it has passed both Unit and its region vote. This has to be done prior to distributing it to all the other Regions and respective Units. The C&B committee's recommendations are then sent out with the amendment.

Second, this isn't my first rodeo and I discussed the concept with a former International Parliamentarian quite some time ago. Motions that die along the way do so because they are poorly worded, haven't fulfilled all the requirements as outlined in the constitution, etc.

Third, what do you think the C&B committee is going to say, anyway? They will say how much it is going to cost to implement, how it will make the IBT less effective, how it may have unintended and unforseeable negative consequences, etc, etc. They will NOT say that this is a wonderful idea, AND finally, they will NOT give it any recommendation of APPROVAL. They will recommend that the membership vote NO.

Fourth, don't you think they have already read the amendment? Of course they have, and all the EC and IBT and C&B will do is quietly conspire with each other on how to defeat it. If they wanted to discuss it before hand, with the idea of making it better, of making it more palatable, don't you think that at least one of them would have joined the discussion by now? If not here, then on the WBCCI member forums where it has also been posted?

Seriously, do any of you think there is an International officer or a committee appointee that will embrace the proposal? Why in God's name would they? It's designed to shift control of the organization from them to the membership. Not a one of them will have anything good to say about it, so why bother?
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:06 AM   #25
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This seems to be a parallel universe, and all so disheartening.
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:15 AM   #26
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It is disheartening that there is no reciprocity, or dialog. That is the problem with the WBCCI in a nutshell. It is why people like Rob Baker have given up being members. However, it is a problem not just with the WBCCI. It is an experience that likely all RV associations (or any association for that matter) has or will have. That is why I don't agree with Rob's action. A new club will grow and prosper because initially it will have inclusivity, but later, exclusivity will creep in and the result will be dissension and controversy over rules and control issues. It seems inevitable.

I see Rob as having exercised the exit option. That option is the one RVer's use when they don't like their neighbors. They start the engine and drive to a different place. I believe he has used the exit option because it is worse to be ignored than to be hated. To keep from being ignored, members such as Leo get louder and more abrasive. He has escalated the conflict to the point where the WBCCI leadership can't ignore him and so think they can eliminate the conflict by simply removing him and other "malcontents." As Leo points out though, he won't let up just because of that.

Conflict can be dreary and tiring, but it isn’t always a bad thing. Sometimes it’s necessary.

For a really good read on this, check out the book, Over The Next Hill by Dorothy and David Counts, particularly Chapter Nine. Here’s a quote to give you an example:

“Anger is a powerful indication of engagement between people, the very opposite of indifference. It may be regarded as the most dramatic proof of responsiveness and caring .... It is a basic form of remaining attached. And among people who are not inevitably bound together, anger may become a refutation of the possibility of separation. Anger is a form of social cohesion, and a strong and reliable one. To fight with each other, people must share norms, rules, vocabulary, and knowledge. Fighting is a partnership, requiring cooperation. A boundary-maintaining mechanism -- for strangers cannot participate fully - it is also above all a profoundly sociable activity.”
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Old 01-06-2010, 12:08 PM   #27
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Rather comforting to read, Forrest. Thank you.

Will put that book on our "must-read" list.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:38 PM   #28
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Leo,
I sent a grievance bylaw to the CBL Chairman directly and also through Cindy Reed back in September asking for review and language approval. Cindy told me that she forwarded her copy to the CBL Chairman. The CBL Chairman has yet to acknowledge that he even received the proposed bylaw. In my opinion, this is inexcusable, unprofessional and rude.
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