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Old 04-25-2011, 12:09 PM   #197
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The current delegate system is being replaced by both direct member voting and the Members’ Caucus. They are fully linked. Direct member voting obviates the role of the delegate and we want to retain a deliberative forum through the Caucus. We are encouraging broad discussion throughout the Club so that members can decide if these combined changes are an improvement.
The current delegate system is proposed to be replaced. A committee has no power unless the delegates vote for those changes. I encourage units to retain their representation. Again 1M1V as represented by the revision committee can only vote upon what is presented to them to vote upon. Membership did not ordain or solicit a committee's input and as such represents 4-5 co-members opinions and should not be revered as more than opinion of a very few individuals made into an incomplete document for consideration. You do not represent my choices or support.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:51 PM   #198
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So now you don't like 1M1V carol?

You did before what's the difference now?

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I still like 1 member 1 vote best.
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Old 04-25-2011, 01:11 PM   #199
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Is the only way to achieve 1m1v is by abolishing the delegates meeting? Since the streaming audio is only one way, a member must pay his own way to wherever and whenever the EC7 decide to hold the members caucus meeting so that they can express their opinions? It would seem more economic to have a two way open forum over the net than just one way streaming. The current method of letting the membership speak through their elected representative is also more democratic. That is the way our US Congress is set up and caucuses and town hall meetings are where the representatives hear from the voters. What the Committee is proposing is a direct democracy, like they had in ancient Greece. We are all familiar with is what, in modern times, is called a democracy but is actually a representative democracy. Both have their weaknesses.
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Old 04-25-2011, 01:35 PM   #200
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The current method of letting the membership speak through their elected representative is also more democratic.
What do you do if your delegate in not present, no vote.

What if your delegate doesn't understand the process, no vote or wrong vote, happens a lot.

What if your delegate doesn't speak out or know RONR on how to speak to that assembly?, no vote or point of view recognized.

With the cost of gas and less folks going to the International year over year you can extrapolate that to less delegates being there.


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Old 04-25-2011, 01:44 PM   #201
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What Bob is pointing out are some of the weaknesses of a representative democracy, where the representative does not give a dam or you may have elected a poor representative. You can have it either way, but you would not need to completely rewrite the whole constitution to achieve it. We are small enough now through 30 years of not keeping pace with society that we might be able to do a direct democracy via the internet, but I have used the weasel word "might". No bets the proposal will solve any or all of WBCCI's problems of declining membership which will eventually lead to a financial crisis.
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Old 04-25-2011, 01:47 PM   #202
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What if the members at the caucus do not understand the process or speak out or know RONR or have the time and money to attend the caucus.

Direct voting is no panacea, I would expect the members voting to be less than 30%. And before you ask the question, I do not know the answer.

Bill

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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
What do you do if your delegate in not present, no vote.

What if your delegate doesn't understand the process, no vote or wrong vote, happens a lot.

What if your delegate doesn't speak out or know RONR on how to speak to that assembly?, no vote or point of view recognized.

With the cost of gas and less folks going to the International year over year you can extrapolate that to less delegates being there.


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Old 04-25-2011, 02:22 PM   #203
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I would just as soon see the delegate system go. Along with it the voting of the units is currently a problem what with exact vote counts, proportional voting and block voting and not all units doing it the same way.
Likewise finding a delegate is a problem. No one from the TN unit is going this year ( and we are fairly close by)which means finding an alternate delegate and hoping he/she is going to vote the wishes of the unit and care enough to to be informed on the items being voted on.
Electronic/mail voting by the members is what is needed. Those who don't care won't vote and that is ok.

I would have been willing to go to the International, and would have been willing to be a delegate, however it won't happen with a hookup only International. But that is another issue
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Old 04-25-2011, 02:30 PM   #204
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What if the members at the caucus do not understand the process or speak out or know RONR or have the time and money to attend the caucus.

Direct voting is no panacea, I would expect the members voting to be less than 30%. And before you ask the question, I do not know the answer.

Bill
I agree, but they have at least an opportunity to vote.

Now their " vote is dependent upon the believes agenda attitude of the delegate who may or may not present their vote".
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:48 PM   #205
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At least with the Delegate system, a whole Unit's desires are sent to International. Even at that, in our Unit only a small portion of Denver Unit members participate in our business meetings. With member numbers over 110+ rigs in Denco, only 25% participate, and vote. We we have several different ways to vote, including hand-carrying of ballots to Spring business meeting..
IMIV, using our percentage only 1500 WBCCI members would vote., So, a small percentage of total WBCCI members would be in control of the Club with IMIV. Cast NO at Revision.. Amend current Constiution for club change.

By the way, just got word, 3 Region 11 Units have re-voted FOR the Denco Motion, and with Denco not having to revote, that's a total of 4 Units out of 6 in Region 11 For the Denco Motion.
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:19 PM   #206
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Do you only need a majority of units to move the motion forward?

Bill

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At least with the Delegate system, a whole Unit's desires are sent to International. Even at that, in our Unit only a small portion of Denver Unit members participate in our business meetings. With member numbers over 110+ rigs in Denco, only 25% participate, and vote. We we have several different ways to vote, including hand-carrying of ballots to Spring business meeting..
IMIV, using our percentage only 1500 WBCCI members would vote., So, a small percentage of total WBCCI members would be in control of the Club with IMIV. Cast NO at Revision.. Amend current Constiution for club change.

By the way, just got word, 3 Region 11 Units have re-voted FOR the Denco Motion, and with Denco not having to revote, that's a total of 4 Units out of 6 in Region 11 For the Denco Motion.
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:55 PM   #207
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Yes, it needs a majority of the units in the region to move to the next phase. It will then be sent out to all the units of the club and 2/3 of the units must pass the amendment within one year for it to be adopted.
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Old 04-25-2011, 06:20 PM   #208
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I would just as soon see the delegate system go. Along with it the voting of the units is currently a problem what with exact vote counts, proportional voting and block voting and not all units doing it the same way.
Likewise finding a delegate is a problem. No one from the TN unit is going this year ( and we are fairly close by)which means finding an alternate delegate and hoping he/she is going to vote the wishes of the unit and care enough to to be informed on the items being voted on.
Electronic/mail voting by the members is what is needed. Those who don't care won't vote and that is ok.

I would have been willing to go to the International, and would have been willing to be a delegate, however it won't happen with a hookup only International. But that is another issue
Rick

How many votes are being lost by the fact that Tn. is not going to the International? Agreed not everyone in Tn. would vote electronically of 1m1v was available but those that would vote would at least be heard. This year they may not be heard at all.

Maybe some of those so adamantly advocating the retention of the Delegate system will begin to see the light when they realize Delegates are a thing of the economic past.
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Old 04-25-2011, 07:42 PM   #209
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I will predict now, if the WBCCI goes to the "Member Caucus" getting rid of the delegates with a 1M1V type voting system, the International Rally will become nothing more than a "Mid-Winter IBT Meeting" in the middle of the summer within a matter of a few years.
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Old 04-25-2011, 07:48 PM   #210
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I could be wrong, but somewhere I recall July 4th was not only a celebration of our Countries birth, but also the birth of Wally Byam. I thought the International was a celebration of that. Change the date and you kind of take all the meaning from it. Maybe I am just looking at it all wrong. I know this Fourth, I will be having a birthday party for Mr Byam. If anyone wants to know how, just shoot me a PM.
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