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Old 09-01-2008, 07:58 PM   #113
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Guys,

I have been PMing with Jim. He has requested that I setup a sub-forum here on AIR for the discussions of forming this new Club. Unfortunately I don't think the time is right for a subforum here on this topic yet. If this club gets traction and goes from an idea to reality then we can look at creating a subforum. For now I have suggested just tagging the threads with a common tag and then you can view the threads grouped together just like a subforum. Here are example of tags:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/tags/

If you create a common tag to use for discussions on this topic you can just link to them like this:

Instead of safari you would have your tag there. It's basically the same thing as a subforum (a grouping of threads).
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Old 09-01-2008, 08:04 PM   #114
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I like what Relentless had to say, we are the "New Club".
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Old 09-01-2008, 08:17 PM   #115
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What do ya all think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy R View Post
Guys,

I have been PMing with Jim. He has requested that I setup a sub-forum here on AIR for the discussions of forming this new Club. Unfortunately I don't think the time is right for a subforum here on this topic yet. If this club gets traction and goes from an idea to reality then we can look at creating a subforum. For now I have suggested just tagging the threads with a common tag and then you can view the threads grouped together just like a subforum. Here are example of tags:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/tags/

If you create a common tag to use for discussions on this topic you can just link to them like this:

Instead of safari you would have your tag there. It's basically the same thing as a subforum (a grouping of threads).
This works for me if it works for everyone else.

If someone would like to do it I would like to provide some information so that we can collect the data in a fashion that will make it very easy to use to build bylaws and Articles of Incorporation.

I would be VERY happy if someone volunteers to work on this.

Jim
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Old 09-01-2008, 08:42 PM   #116
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I guess I just don't get it.

What value added will this new club bring that we don't already have in this forum and the forum rallies?.......................................... ..........................
For what purpose?

John
In addition to Jim's point about insurance, remember that these forums, despite the feel, are a private owned enterprise. As "members" we have zero say in how it is run, end of story. If it were the basis of a camping club, the same would apply. Further, since there would be financial motive, there is no telling what would happen. It could be benign, like the forums have been to date, but at some date it could be bought out (think Beatrice Foods) and.. well you get the idea.
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Old 09-01-2008, 09:50 PM   #117
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Jim, Tags are kinda new around here. I think we got them with the last software upgrade. At any rate, I think the person that starts a thread gets to assign the tags. Go to the last post in a thread and there should be a link at the bottom left of that last post called "tags". Click on that link and fill in a tag name. I suggest something like "new club" for start.

Unfortunately, that is the extent of knowledge of tags. Can somebody tell us if there is a link to "tags" off of the portal page or forums page?

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Old 09-01-2008, 09:54 PM   #118
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As "members" we have zero say in how it is run, end of story.
That's funny, you do know this site is run by your peers right? Is there something we can do better? If so, please send me a PM and I would be glad to listen and try to find a solution.

AIR Forums is not intended to be a formal club. The goal was to create a place to share our knowledge, let members host their own rallies without any rules, etc. So I don't think comparing a "club" idea with the forums is very accurate.
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Further, since there would be financial motive, there is no telling what would happen. It could be benign, like the forums have been to date, but at some date it could be bought out (think Beatrice Foods) and.. well you get the idea.
If you don't think I have the best interest of the community in mind then I have done something wrong. I hope you can tell from my thousands of hours of work over the last 6.5 years that I indeed put my heart and soul into this site. I have no plans to sell AIR Forums and even expanding my community network to include other RV/Travel Trailer sites. So please don't compare me to Beatrice Foods. Thor might own Airstream, Inc but that does not dilute the love we have for Airstreams, the passion we have for traveling or the comradery people get from being part of the wonderful community of Airstream enthusiasts!

I guess what I am trying to say is that we get enough FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) on the news. You don't need to use this tactic to encourage members to form a new group. It would be much more noble to focus on the positive factors of the new group instead of pointing out all the negatives of every other option.
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Old 09-01-2008, 09:59 PM   #119
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Oh Andy, we know that. You've been very good to us and there wouldn't even be an "us" without you! I don't think any disrespect was intended, at least I should hope not.

But you did give me an idea. Can we chip in and buy WBCCI? They would have enough to fund all their heart desires and let the younger ones run with it for the next 50 plus years!

I got a quarter here. Who will see that and raise my bid?
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Old 09-01-2008, 10:20 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy R View Post
That's funny, you do know this site is run by your peers right? Is there something we can do better? If so, please send me a PM and I would be glad to listen and try to find a solution.

AIR Forums is not intended to be a formal club. The goal was to create a place to share our knowledge, let members host their own rallies without any rules, etc. So I don't think comparing a "club" idea with the forums is very accurate.If you don't think I have the best interest of the community in mind then I have done something wrong. I hope you can tell from my thousands of hours of work over the last 6.5 years that I indeed put my heart and soul into this site. I have no plans to sell AIR Forums and even expanding my community network to include other RV/Travel Trailer sites. So please don't compare me to Beatrice Foods. Thor might own Airstream, Inc but that does not dilute the love we have for Airstreams, the passion we have for traveling or the comradery people get from being part of the wonderful community of Airstream enthusiasts!

I guess what I am trying to say is that we get enough FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) on the news. You don't need to use this tactic to encourage members to form a new group. It would be much more noble to focus on the positive factors of the new group instead of pointing out all the negatives of every other option.
Sorry Andy, that was not my point at all and I was not discounting the forums or you. If you take offense, none was meant, and I apologize. In fact, the comments had nothing at all to do with you personally. The forums are well run, and a great place. Having worked behind the curtain I know how well it works, and what its limitations are.

As you point out, the forums are not meant to be a formal club, which was in fact my point. I can see how my comments may have been misread, but I do take exception to them being characterized as "fear and doubt" tactics. The point I was trying to get across was that a commerce based club would not be the way to go. You have built a wonderful product Andy, I don't think anyone will argue that. However, I would argue that you are not likely to own the forums forever regardless of your present plans. In fact, Beatrice is the perfect comparison. WB had a great company so far as I can tell, but like all of us he was all to mortal. If one is contemplating forming a club, it is wise to be thinking decades ahead and beyond what is present today. A business is not accountable to anyone but the owners (so long as they are willing to loose money), and is never more than one sell away from being something very different than it started as. That is no commentary on you or anyone else n particular, rather it is a general observation.

Further, I am not discouraging a new group ( I think it is a pretty good idea in fact), I was simply pointing out the limits to what a business centered sponsor were. I welcome, and might well join a camping club that was about camping rather than a mobile home owners association; what my comments were intended to do was to help explain why it would be better to organize around democratic rather than economic principals.
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Old 09-01-2008, 10:25 PM   #121
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Quote:
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Oh Andy, we know that. You've been very good to us and there wouldn't even be an "us" without you!
Thanks for the kind words. I really do want AIR to be a reflection of the members. I have learned so much here working with you all that I have applied the same techniques on the other Social Knowledge sites and the members really appreciate it. I know a formal club is a totally different thing and some people look for more formal structure to be part of. The forums are totally casual without any bylaws, chapters, etc. Just one big group of diverse Airstream lovers with LOTs of opinions. That's what makes us great. My official stance on the New Club is neutral. I am not going to make any comments or side with anyone. I feel it important the forum stay this way to be true to all our members.
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But you did give me an idea. Can we chip in and buy WBCCI? They would have enough to fund all their heart desires and let the younger ones run with it for the next 50 plus years!
Hmmm, for some reason I don't think they will sell.

To tell you the truth, I just skip over all the WBCCI stuff because I don't really like drama or reading page after page of negative comments. I think it would be great if one person could do a research project and read all the pages of info and come up with a short 4 page report that outlines the top issues that people complain about. Then in the report also offer solutions for each one iussue. It's so easy to complain but it's not as easy to offer solutions. Then if no one listens to the recommendations you can use that document as a litmus test on a new club every year to make sure you don't fall into the same rut.

Regardless, I hope that people can set aside their differences and stop to smell the roses of life. Today I took a long walk down the beach, cooked dinner at home with my girlfriend, spoke to my Mom on the phone for about an hour and did not let myself get stressed out about some clubs bylaws. It was a great day and tomorrow is going to be just as nice. Things only get to you if you let them. Someone recently told me that if you don't pay attention to the drama, discussions (on here) and other negative things about WBCCI you will find that 99.5% of the members are wonderful people and at the end of the day that's what counts. I personally would fit in better at Burning Man then the International but that's why there are lots of options (and maybe one more coming soon).

Y'all have fun organizing your club and if you need me for anything you can PM. I am off to work on some exciting new things for AIR.


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Old 09-01-2008, 10:32 PM   #122
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. Today I took a long walk down the beach, cooked dinner at home with my girlfriend, spoke to my Mom on the phone for about an hour and did not let myself get stressed out about some clubs bylaws. It was a great day and tomorrow is going to be just as nice.
I can't speak to that, but my 11 weeks in the Rockies this summer were excellent, and I cant wait for the 2 1/2 on the beach at new years.
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Old 09-01-2008, 10:41 PM   #123
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How to gather input for the formation of the club...

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Originally Posted by Jim & Susan View Post
Jim, Tags are kinda new around here. I think we got them with the last software upgrade. At any rate, I think the person that starts a thread gets to assign the tags. Go to the last post in a thread and there should be a link at the bottom left of that last post called "tags". Click on that link and fill in a tag name. I suggest something like "new club" for start.

Unfortunately, that is the extent of knowledge of tags. Can somebody tell us if there is a link to "tags" off of the portal page or forums page?

Jim
Hi JIm,

After looking at tags for a bit and talking with Andy some more this is NOT going to work the way I had hoped.

The problem is simply this. We need to find a way that people can provide input for all the "stuff" that has to be included in the bylaws. This is a lot of "stuff".

So, what to do.

First, while what I am going to propose below is all taking place this "A Modest Proposal" thread should continue to be used for general discussion.

The trick will be to do this in a manner that will have some sort of organization so the people who volunteer to monitor and collate all of the response that are made will not be buried with a task that takes hours on end.

And yes, you can consider this a plea for volunteers to do this.

I am working with an outline for bylaws that I can use to post one liners in several threads that people can respond to.

At the minute I am thinking that posts should be made by subject, for example Membership. Within this post would be many one liners that people could use to respond to specific issues about the topic of membership using the quote mechanism to reply and placing their response below the one liner.

At the end of each post they could include anything else that they would like to say, suggest or ask questions about.

This may well work but that is not for me to say. It is up to everyone here to determine if this will work for them. It is my recommendation. But, having said that, I am open to suggestion.There may be a better way.

Before we start posting threads asking for responses we should probably get some input from everyone as to how long we want to allow people to respond. Ya, some sort of time frame so we all know when the end date will be. This obviously cannot go on indefinitely.

The objective is to get as much information from as many people as possible. However this needs to be tempered with a cut off date for input that y'all will be happy with.

Keep in mind that after the cut off date all of the information will have to be sorted and collated.

AND,

Once that is accomplished the hard work begins. How do we determine which of the ideas/suggestions/responses we actually use? I am sure there will be some duplication and that will solve some of this part of the process. But, there will be plenty of tough decisions to be made.

This is going to take lots of give and take with everyone realizing that this here ain't the Burger King - you're not going to get it your way every time.

The other Jim
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Old 09-01-2008, 10:47 PM   #124
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Jim,

Forums are great for discussions but other tools are better for collaboration on documents. It sounds like this is a perfect use of Google Docs (link). You can have various people collaborate on documents, spreadsheets, and presentations. It will keep version tracking (in case someone screws up) and you can even "publish" the stuff so that people who don't need to be editing can see the most recent version at any time. Another option is wiki software...
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Old 09-01-2008, 10:56 PM   #125
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Google Docs, etc....

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Jim,

Forums are great for discussions but other tools are better for collaboration on documents. It sounds like this is a perfect use of Google Docs (link). You can have various people collaborate on documents, spreadsheets, and presentations. It will keep version tracking (in case someone screws up) and you can even "publish" the stuff so that people who don't need to be editing can see the most recent version at any time. Another option is wiki software...
Hi Andy,

I appreciate you input which, as always, is worthwhile and valuable.

And right you are, there are better tools for this kind of thing.

At the minute I am concerned about moving anything to do with this discussion off the Airfourm. This is a natural meeting place for most of the folks who would like to participate and I fear we may loose valuable input from people should we choose to do so.

I gave consideration to setting up a forum on my web site to do this but decided for the above reason that it just was NOT the thing to do.

I believe that this this needs to be done here, in the open so everyone is comfortable with the process.

If others feel differently I am sure they will chime in. It is not my intention to speak for anyone.

Jim
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Old 09-02-2008, 12:11 AM   #126
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