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Old 08-31-2008, 10:51 AM   #71
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[
I don't feel the compelling need to remove my numbers, I bought them I own them. Maybe a Smiley Face on top or on the sides of them could signify another membership.
Joe,

I love it! Let's do smiley faces rather than stars! (I never put up our stars, anyhow.)
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:42 AM   #72
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I agree Joe, I love smiley faces after all that is what we all experience when we go camping.....in our 'streams.......
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:54 AM   #73
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Would I fit into this new club?

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Originally Posted by joecolao View Post
I am fed up with the in-fighting caused by the Jim Franklin Types.
I don't want to lose my camping buddies.
I don't need to be entertained by the standards of somebody else's standards to have fun.
I don't want to pay a fortune to camp and have fun.
I don't feel the compelling need to remove my numbers, I bought them I own them. Maybe a Smiley Face on top or on the sides of them could signify another membersthip.
I love to volunteer and I love and respect other volunteers and I cherish them too!

Would I fit into this new club?
Hi Joe,

It is not my place to speak for others and how they would feel about the "fit" that you ask about. I can only speak about what I would like to see.

From my perspective keeping things simple (the KISS method of engineering) is something that should be adhered to as much as possible. I would like to think that we all realize that there has to be some amount of "overhead" that goes along with any organization.

As much as people do not like rules there have to be some. People like to refer to this here Airform as a place where things are free and easy going.

They are right, to a point. The Airforum has moderators who act in small "police" role to ensure that dignity and respect is always maintained as an integral part of the Airforum. I have not heard much in the way of complaint about this and it is spelled out fairly well as a part of the Airfoum "policy". So, even here we have rules.

My idea for a new club is to be as INCLUSIVE as possible. That's why my post detailing my suggestions/ideas has the following statement right up front:

"...The ONLY requirement for membership is that the proposed member wishes to further the better interests of the organization. NOTHING else."

Most of the clubs I have participated in over the years tend to have statements of purpose that are more EXCLUSIVE than inclusive. I personally am not of fan of excluding anyone from anything that they would like to be involved in.

At the same time I realise that no club can be all things to all people; this is just not possible. That, in fact, is why this process is moving forward.

One thing I would hope everyone who chooses to get involved in the building of a new Airstream club will do is honor and respect the legacy and history of the WBCCI. The WBCCI has a very rich history and tradition that evokes a lot of pride and memorable moments for many, many people. That should always be remembered and everyone should respect that.

Many people in this thread have voiced an opinion that they would like an alternative to the WBCCI for an Airstream club. My intent is to work with those that would like be work on buidling a new club and facilitate this endeavor.

As to what this club will be and weather or not you would "fit" into it I would suggest that you jump into the deep end of the pond with the others who are choosing to get their feet wet by working toward building a new club. Whatever a new Airstream club "looks" like will be totally dependent on the people who choose to participate in the formation fo the organization in its infancy.

But, having said that my goal would be to create an organization that is flexible enough to grow or shirnk as needed by by chaning times. If this is sometihng you would like to be a memeber of then by all means you are welcome as far as I am concerned.

Jim
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Old 08-31-2008, 02:06 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Jim don't take this the wrong way but you're getting ahead of your self talking about the structure of a Airstream club.

You're an Airstream owner what about a year?
With less than 100 posts

There are many people here that you should be getting input from before you post your ideas.
Li Pets, I think I understood what you were trying to say, so I didn't take it "the wrong way" like some of the other posts. I think you are concerned about where someone coming out of no where wants to lead us.

Jim, you seem to be taking the lead and saying "follow me!" You've got a lot of enthusiasm for sure, but I've seen that before. The question is do you have the endurance? Since you do seem to be new to Airstreaming and to the forums I don't think its unreasonable to want to know something about the person that wants us to follow over to a new club.

So, who are you? I tried to go to your web site, but it doesn't seem to be functioning. You only sign your posts as "Jim" - Jim who? I went to your personal profile and it doesn't tell me much about you. This is a problem with forums... you could be anybody, maybe even Jim Franklin trying to led us malcontents out of the WBCCI!
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Old 08-31-2008, 02:15 PM   #75
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Forrest--

The silvertwinkie.norseaodyssey.com website works for me.
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Old 08-31-2008, 02:33 PM   #76
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Silver Twinkie

works for me too and this page is entitled "who we are"

Who We Are

What's all the big concern to exchange ideas on the forum, am I missing something here? Or he could be the Pied Pieper and lead us as the children to a mountain and never be seen again. Oh just go for it, live dangerously and just post some new club suggestions.
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Old 08-31-2008, 02:52 PM   #77
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Who am I and some other questions answered...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
Li Pets, I think I understood what you were trying to say, so I didn't take it "the wrong way" like some of the other posts. I think you are concerned about where someone coming out of no where wants to lead us.

Jim, you seem to be taking the lead and saying "follow me!" You've got a lot of enthusiasm for sure, but I've seen that before. The question is do you have the endurance? Since you do seem to be new to Airstreaming and to the forums I don't think its unreasonable to want to know something about the person that wants us to follow over to a new club.

So, who are you? I tried to go to your web site, but it doesn't seem to be functioning. You only sign your posts as "Jim" - Jim who? I went to your personal profile and it doesn't tell me much about you. This is a problem with forums... you could be anybody, maybe even Jim Franklin trying to led us malcontents out of the WBCCI!
First, as to the web site, I just went to it and it appears to be working fine; a typo in the name perhaps? The portion about our Airstream travels is definitely in its infancy and "under construction" definitely applies.

Our web site is actually three web sites. The one listed in my avatar relates to our Airstream travels.

There is Verna's Recipes which contains many, many pages of my wife's recipes that she has collected/developed over the years.

And then there is norseaodyssey.com. You learn more about us here than you ever wanted to know. You can also get to Verna's Recipies from here as well.

One thing I can guarantee, I am NOT Jim Franklin.

Another thing I can also guarantee is that I am NOT trying to lead anyone, malcontents or otherwise, from the WBCCI. The WBCCI, as I have stated in many posts on this forum (not just in this thread) is something that should be honored and respected by all who have anything to do with Airstreams.

It's just that the structure of the WBCCI does not provide what I would like to have in an Aristream club. I will leave it to those who want more info about my thoughts on the WBCCI to do a search on all of the (not so many) posts I have made here in these forums to read what my thoughts about the WBCCI are.

In addition to your request about info about me I have also received several messages from people asking why they should join a new Airstream club. I will address the later first and then include some info about us at the end of this post.

To be frank I don't know that I can answer the question as to why anyone should join a new Airstream club. Why anyone chooses to join any sort of social club is a highly individual and private decision.

The following is a message I received that asks something similar and perhaps this is what people are really curious about:

"For those that respond better to what the club would do for them if those sorts are allowed. ; ) rather than what they can do to structure the club, how about flashing forward and giving a few fun example of what the club might be for their experience to enjoy. You will have members asking why do I need the club or why do I want the club or thinking it at any rate."

All very good questions.

The answer as to why I would like a be a member of a new Airstream club is very simple. I am not at all enamored with the WBCCI. Enough said; see above for my suggestion if you want to know more about my thoughts on the subject.

To answer the question, "What's in it (building a new Airstream club) for me?", I offer the following:

I have searched high and low for an alternative Airstream club to the WBCCI. I have not found one. I'm the kind of guy who is more than willing to do a bit of work to reach a goal of interest. So, in order for me to have an Airstream social organization of which I can be a member, I decided that I would work toward the establishment of an Airstream club that would offer the kind of experience I am after.

Initially I wondered if a sufficient number of other people would be interested in a new club. My first thought was probably not; obviously I have changed my opinion on the mater.

As for my personal interests in a club I love nothing better than to arrive at a campground at the end of the day and find a few familiar faces with whom I can share the experience; after all, it is really all about the people.

But, having said that, I like the opportunity to "get out" and away from what is the norm for most; a local club with members from the local area. In past experiences with other clubs I find that having a national organization that can act as a focal point for many individual local clubs has a lot of value. An annual rally brings people together face to face and gives them the opportunity to "get up close and personal" with "friends from afar", for example.

As far as activities the club should offer I tend to look at this question in a very different light than most folks, I think. My immediate response to what activities should be offered would be, "Why, it should offer any activity that any member or members want to put together.".

Again, I am interested in the creation of an organization that is INCLUSIVE and NOT exclusive. What I would prefer to see as a part of the structure of a club is nothing stated about what can/should be the activities of the club. Some sort of statement along the lines of, "the club offers rally's at locations with full hookup as well as locations for the boondocking enthusiast, caravans to the annual club rally and charted club events, AND any such other activities that the members would like to organize. How about going river rafting? What about a weekend bicycling staying at campgrounds and/or BB's? From my perspective "the sky is the limit".

But, having said all of that l suspect that many of these activities are the type of things that a local club would do simply because geographically it is much easier. But, often times it is nice to do things with people from other locations if you are lucky enough to be able to travel and do that.

A national organization brings everyone together and provides opportunities for more people who are passionate about their Airstream to meet AND they can do so without being a member of a local club if they so desire. It's all about opportunities for people to INCLUDE themselves if they so desire.

As for us personally I will offer the following here and leave it to those who want to know more about us to go to Who We Are on our web site where you will learn more about us than you ever wanted to know.

My wife and I are very fortunate. We have been retired since 2000; we got out before the "bubble" burst"; life has been good to us. We retired early and are enjoying the freedom we have as a result. We have been traveling for the past 7 years outside the USA. We returned to the USA a year ago in May simply because the US Dollar had become so worthless that we could no longer afford to remain out of the country. We bought an Airstream; something we had planed to do many years later but as luck would have it the time was right and David at Colonial Airstream in New Jersey "made us an offer we could not refuse"; good people at Colonial IMNSHO by the way.

And, as is probably very apparent to everyone by now, I don't just sit on the local log and play the role of a bump. I like to be involved.

I'm also pretty good at being a devils advocate to the point of irritating lots of people if I should put my mind to it. But, all things being equal, I'd much rather NOT find myself in a position where I think it is necessary to exercise this particular skill.

We are traveling full time in our Airstream; a 30' Classic. We met a to of wonderful folks in the infancy of our Airstream travels last year. We plan to be at the Can Opener again this year. We also are planning on attending some other rally's as well. It's all a mater of the timing of where we are when something is scheduled. Luck of the draw and all that.

As to my "staying power" only time will tell. Frankly I think this will not be up to me. If there is sufficient interest that can be galvanized to move this process forward a new club is immanent. If people should choose not to participate then, obviously, nothing will be accomplished.

One of the first posts I made here on the Airfoum about a new Airstream Camping Club got very few replies and many were of the type that said this was a subject that had been beaten to death in a plethora of other threads. From my perspective nothing will get done unless someone comes forward to champion the cause. Want a new club? This is your chance to get involved and participate as much as you want. Not interested? Fine with me too. It's all about what the people here want to do.

Jim
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Old 08-31-2008, 03:03 PM   #78
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Pied Piper???

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
Silver Twinkie

works for me too and this page is entitled "who we are"

Who We Are

What's all the big concern to exchange ideas on the forum, am I missing something here? Or he could be the Pied Pieper and lead us as the children to a mountain and never be seen again. Oh just go for it, live dangerously and just post some new club suggestions.
Carol you're a hoot!!!

I've been referred to many times by two words by NEVER pied piper!

Jim,who is ROTFLMAO
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Old 08-31-2008, 03:06 PM   #79
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Jim,

Forrest is correct, we don’t know who you are; we do know you have an Airstream since 11/07 or 9 months, we know you’re not a WBCCI member.
We know you first saw the existing Bylaws 12 days ago for the first time and now claim to be an expert on them and the WBCCI.
You contacted Airstream on your own to talk about a club.
On 8-16 you stated http://www.airforums.com/forums/f232...tml#post604356

Quote:
Originally Posted by norsea View Post
Lynn,

Thanks for posting the location of the WBCCI Bylaws.

As I have stated in posts in other threads:
  • I am NOT a member of the WBCCI.
  • I have done lots of research on the WBCCI
Your posting of a location for the WBCCI Bylaws helps me continue my ongoing education about the organization. Thanks commin' at ya.

Having just downloaded a copy

Now that I have started to examine the WBCCI Bylaws I am even more convinced that the structure of the WBCCI is the largest problem the organization faces.

Jim
You may be the next best thing to sliced bread but we don’t know you, to gain our trust tell us about yourself.

Tell us who you have been conferences with on this goal.

How can someone become such an expert on the Airstream way of life, the needs of it’s owners and develop a structure for a new club and have the NEW bylaws drafted?

Convince me.
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Old 08-31-2008, 03:41 PM   #80
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Jim,

I got to your web site, I'm impressed. Who are you? You are travelers, straight and simple. And you've done a lot of it, more perhaps than anyone else on the forum. Good for you.

I find your sections on Globalization interesting, the quote that you agree with, "integration of markets, nation-states and technologies to a degree never witnessed before—in a way that is enabling individuals, corporations and nation-states to reach around the world farther, faster, deeper and cheaper than ever before, and in a way that is enabling the world to reach into individuals," is to me scary. I've seen first hand how the integration of business and government as partners in pursuit of profit runs rough shod over the rights of citizens as guaranteed by the US Constitution. I've seen first hand how business protects profit, not inalienable rights, and when government becomes a business for profit rights become second to that profit. Just my thoughts on that, but nothing more since this isn't a forum on Globalization.
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Old 08-31-2008, 03:41 PM   #81
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Convince you? Hmmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Jim,

Forrest is correct, we donít know who you are; we do know you have an Airstream since 11/07 or 9 months, we know youíre not a WBCCI member.
We know you first saw the existing Bylaws 12 days ago for the first time and now claim to be an expert on them and the WBCCI.
You contacted Airstream on your own to talk about a club.
On 8-16 you stated http://www.airforums.com/forums/f232...tml#post604356



You may be the next best thing to sliced bread but we donít know you, to gain our trust tell us about yourself.

Tell us who you have been conferences with on this goal.

How can someone become such an expert on the Airstream way of life, the needs of itís owners and develop a structure for a new club and have the NEW bylaws drafted?

Convince me.
Hi Bob,

Hopefully the post I just sent prior to this will answer some of your questions about who I am.

I have experience with bylaws for mutual benefit domestic non profit organizations, if that makes me an expert in your mind I would like to dispel that thought right now. There are others on the Airforum who have also said that they have experience in this area.

For what it is worth, most bylaws tend to be boiler plate stuff. The "nitty gritty" (technical term) tends to be specifics that are worked out as the people who work to establish the organization reach decisions for the things that must be included in the bylaws.

For example how the membership selects and elects officers is something that is included in bylaws. It is not hard to modify a boiler plate document to include the specifics as to what the founders of the organization specify. The same is true for a name for an organization. It's only words that get inserted into the specific part of the document that addresses that particular subject.

As I stated in my first post in this thread, I think it is much to soon to make determinations about what the content for bylaws for a new Airstream club should be. The people who choose to work on the formation of the club will have to make those decisions as they work through the process of establishing how they want their club structured.

As for my contacting Airstream I do not see any harm in this. From what I have read here in the Airforums there are many who have questions about the use of the Airstream name for any purpose. An issue like this needs someone to champion it and find out what is possible. Knowing what is possible makes it much easier for people to make decisions about such things as a name for a club, as in will Airstream let us use the name in that of a new Airstream club like the VAC does?

As far as convincing you I'm not sure what you want from me. All I can do is what I have done and am doing; offer my services as a facilitator to work with the people who are interested in establishing a new Airstream club. If you are interested in participating join in. Whatever results of our efforts will be a compilation of the infromation and suggestions/ideas that the participants bring to the process.

Now, having said that I can only hope that everyone who participates will recognize that not everyone is going to get everything that they would like from the process. There just has to be a lot of give and take from all parties concerned if we are to be successful in establishing a new Airstream club.

I will repeat my analogy that unlike Calvin of comic strip fame I am NOT interested in "being supreme, ultimate dictator for life". Or for 30 seconds for that matter. I am interested in facilitating the process of forming a new Airstream club.

I hope this combined with your perusal of the info about my wife and I on our web site answers your questions.

Jim
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Old 08-31-2008, 03:44 PM   #82
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Globalization...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
Jim,

I got to your web site, I'm impressed. Who are you? You are travelers, straight and simple. And you've done a lot of it, more perhaps than anyone else on the forum. Good for you.

I find your sections on Globalization interesting, the quote that you agree with, "integration of markets, nation-states and technologies to a degree never witnessed beforeóin a way that is enabling individuals, corporations and nation-states to reach around the world farther, faster, deeper and cheaper than ever before, and in a way that is enabling the world to reach into individuals," is to me scary. I've seen first hand how the integration of business and government as partners in pursuit of profit runs rough shod over the rights of citizens as guaranteed by the US Constitution. I've seen first hand how business protects profit, not inalienable rights, and when government becomes a business for profit rights become second to that profit. Just my thoughts on that, but nothing more since this isn't a forum on Globalization.
Yes Forest, I am a capitalist at heart.

But, I also believe very much that regulation is part of capitalism.

And yes, all of this is for another time and another place.

Jim
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Old 09-01-2008, 08:33 AM   #83
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A Lot of Grilling

Boy, for someone who wants to help the group he should is getting grilled. I have found the the new and the old bring a lot of good ideas to the table and I would think that this the case here.

I know its the holiday weekend, but keep the grilling to the back patio! Keep typing Jim!
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Old 09-01-2008, 09:59 AM   #84
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Rules, etc....

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Originally Posted by Mikethefixit View Post
I said Id join a new club,but now we are back talkin bout rules and by-laws and presidents and treasurers and it will go back to what already exists excluding anyone who hasn't yet experienced owning an AS but wants too. Its supposed to be about campin an fun and adventure.
We attended a rally in Mich where everyone was welcome and it Worked.
I don't think we want to join any club now
Hi Mike,

I can only hope that you are feeling a bit more comfortable about the ideas for a new club based on what has been posted in this thread to date. I believe that your concerns about bureaucracy are well founded. But, as others have stated, there just has to be some in order to ensure that the members and officers of the club are protected. Like it or not, in our society it is all too easy for someone to file a lawsuit. The key, in my opinion, is to keep things as simple as possible. The objective should be to have every member be able to understand how the club operates and WHY it operates the way it does. In my experience when this is the case problems within the club tend to be minimal due to bureaucracy.

I cannot AGREE more with your comments as to what it should be all about. I suspect that your thoughts are shared by the vast majority of folks.

Jim
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