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Old 09-02-2008, 11:21 PM   #155
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Well Nuvi,

I should have directed my comment directly to LIPets.

I didn't have to pick up on the vibrations. I did refer each to the other.

A WBCCI spin-off club might have an entirely different set of members than another Airstream club. You can take the members out of the WBCCI but not necessarily take the WBCCI out of the members...by choice that is. The stage was set by the announcement of the suspension. I expected there would be competition and plans for new clubs springing up even beside these.

My contention is the tone of the post, and the logic.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:43 PM   #156
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My contention is the tone of the post, and the logic.
I would agree with you there.
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:08 AM   #157
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I have been out of pocket today and at a movie last evening so I haven't been able to keep up with this thread...literally! This thread has grown four pages since I last read any of it yesterday.

I have been a member of the WBCCI for over two years but have never attended one of the rallies, why? The Georgia Unit, of which I am a member, has 4 and 5 day rallies. I am still working and by the time we could get to the rally site, the rally is practically over. (Wed-Sunday vs. our schedule of Sat. & Sun.) The next rally is the State Rally and is just 40 miles from our home, but again, it is Thursday through Sunday and is dry camping except for the first 100 campers (they get electric) and cost $100 per couple plus extra for each additional attendee (each of our kids). $50/night to camp in a parking lot with no connections practically in my back yard isn't too appealing to me. Not to mention we would be among the youngest (mid-40's) and some of the few, if not only, attendees with children.

What we have enjoyed is forum rallies and I don't think for a moment that a new Airstream club would mean an end to forum rallies. But I still like the idea of being a member of something associated with only Airstreams. Unfortunately, WBCCI isn't doing it for us. I remain a member of WBCCI in the hopes that it will change with time and I am willing to support the Club until it does. I am willing to look at alternatives though. I would love to be a charter member of the next/alternative Airstream Club.

I would like to see this new Airstream club be an Airstream Corporate endorsed club and one that is what WBCCI is not. I'd also like to see this new club include the name Airstream in some fashion. If there is an alternative to the WBCCI, the WBCCI will have to change to compete for membership or be content to continue with the loyal membership that doesn't jump ship for as long as they last. I'm not advocating draining the WBCCI or putting them out of business. On the contrary. I'd like nothing more than to have two clubs to belong to and have two options for rallies and caravans in the future. There may be a time when the current WBCCI style of club will be what I want/need, but in the interim, I'd like to have the alternative.

My dream club would have rallies around the country at differing times of the year...just like the forum rallies we have access to today. One where the focus of the rallies center around the weekend with options for those that can arrive early or stay late. There has to be bylaws and dues to cover liability insurance and other overhead cost, but there are other clubs beside the WBCCI that this new club could be patterned after. There's Good Sam's, FMBA (?), and others. This new club could have a national rally once, or even twice, a year with a similar or different format than any of these or WBCCI's. There could also be intra-club organizations (Rivettes, Silver Sisters, etc.)

I'm in the middle of raising two pre-teen boys with Scouting obligations and a career and taking a night class and trying to camp on weekends and it seems life just keeps piling up. Count me in on joining the new club, and I'll do what I can to help put it together no matter who spearheads it.

If someone other than Norsea has started the ball rolling before him, let us know so we can gather the troops behind him/her. If not, then stop trying to muddy the waters so we can get on with it.
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Old 09-03-2008, 06:48 AM   #158
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I seems people like me are not heard .Only those here with money that are world travelers are heard. So U go ahead and form your new club with the presidents and high monkey monks and potentates and your incorporation and your liability insurance.
Your are running straight into what you are trying to get away from.
So I have to stay with Forums rallys and be content with that.
I will comment NO MORE
I'M OUT
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Old 09-03-2008, 09:09 AM   #159
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A suggestion

Would it be agreeable to 1) find an attorney who might be willing to steer us through the shoals of incorporation, 2) form a minimalist structure say a board of 5 to do as little as possible, 3) use the resulting structure to provide liability insurance to ad hoc rallies such as have been organized here on the forums? It seems this would provide a club, and some protection that some are wanting without the rest of the baggage of a large organization.
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Old 09-03-2008, 09:22 AM   #160
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What I have learned from this process...

If I have learned one thing in life it is this:

Perception is reality.

As a result I have NEVER (strong word) tried to convince people that their way of thinking or doing things is not correct. Frankly I have always had a difficult time understanding people who believe that others are doing it wrong if they are not doing things their way.

I am a firm believer in education. And part of that belief is that it is each of our duties in life to help our fellow man by sharing the what we know so others may profit from our experience.

I have no desire to convince anyone of anything in this life. But, I do like sharing experiences with other people. I think that the most rewarding moments in my life have involved shared activities with other people be that with my family or others.

It's very nice to share common goals and experiences. I suspect that is what brings the vast majority of people to this forum.

What I always do find interesting is how people respond to things. The responses in this thread pay tribute to the diversity of opinions people have. And that's a wonderful thing. We have had the good fortune to see how life is lived in many different cultures. As a result of this experience we cherish diversity and the freedom of expression and, above all, the opportunity that we in the USA have.

When I jumped into this thread I had no doubts that there would be some comments from the forum folks who do not think things like bylaws and Articles of Incorporation are necessary. That is there opinion and they are entitled to have that opinion and I will always respect it.

I also knew that I would receive some responses from people in the WBCCI who would NOT be happy about what I was proposing. However, I thought these comments from the WBCCI members would come from the folks who are "true believers". I can understand how they would feel about a new club being proposed given the exclusivity of the WBCCI as THE Airstream club from more that 50 years. I am very sensitive to that as an issue will never do anything but honor that heritage.

What I did not expect was the comments to come from the very people who are up in arms about the current state of affairs within the WBCCI.

I had very serious reservations about being able to do something like my proposal in a public forum.

But, given all of the posts in which people were clamoring for open processes and transparency in the way a club should conduct its operations I decided that I would test the water and see if people were willing to take the risk that is associated by doing something like this in full view of the world.

Unfortunately my suspicions were confirmed. A public forum is NOT the place to do something like this.

I want to thank EVERYONE who has participated in this thread. You have provide invaluable information to me and everyone who has read or will read this thread; really think about what has been said here, the way it has been said and why it has been said.

For those that have provided me with their email addresses I will be in touch. For those who would like to continue to work with me away from the forum you can contact me privately by email using the Contact Us page on our web site.

Thanks again for participating and providing invaluable information to all who will read this thread.

Jim, who is off to peruse his dream Airstream club and hopes others will join him...
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Old 09-03-2008, 11:02 AM   #161
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are some folks NOT planning forum rallies due 2 lack of insurance coverage?

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Originally Posted by Gen Disarray View Post
...3) use the resulting structure to provide liability insurance to ad hoc rallies such as have been organized here...
this comes up occasionally here.

it's not clear anyone doing forums rallies thinks this coverage is needed...

or if they do why.

most of us have comp coverage on our 'streams, that includes mishap protection similar to home owners insurance.

for example IF my awning falls on a dinner party, there is coverage which varies by policy and premium.

IF one has LOTS of assets to protect, a 1-5 mil personal liability umbrella policy is a good buy.

drivers (should) have coverage, campgrounds have coverage, and so on...

i don't think insurance coverage can be simply structured and purchased to cover 'forum events'...

without having OFFICiAL sign up sheets, disclaimers, hold harmless and other FORMS for the rallies.

along with the 'be a business' ya ya...

besides taking these steps INVITES actions toward the covered, so it starts a process of in ALL the way or not.

a "little coverage" is worse than none where groups are concerned.

while some of the starters of the 4cu felt the need to have insurance for camping events,

not many others have felt that need related to forum camping.

the growth and popularity of forum rallies has been healthy up to now...

it would be interesting to have a rally in a walmart lot and work out the liability issues there.

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Old 09-03-2008, 12:39 PM   #162
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I have been a member of the WBCCI for over two years but have never attended one of the rallies, why? The Georgia Unit, of which I am a member, has 4 and 5 day rallies. I am still working and by the time we could get to the rally site, the rally is practically over. (Wed-Sunday vs. our schedule of Sat. & Sun.) The next rally is the State Rally and is just 40 miles from our home, but again, it is Thursday through Sunday and is dry camping except for the first 100 campers (they get electric) and cost $100 per couple plus extra for each additional attendee (each of our kids). $50/night to camp in a parking lot with no connections practically in my back yard isn't too appealing to me. Not to mention we would be among the youngest (mid-40's) and some of the few, if not only, attendees with children.

What we have enjoyed is forum rallies and I don't think for a moment that a new Airstream club would mean an end to forum rallies. But I still like the idea of being a member of something associated with only Airstreams. Unfortunately, WBCCI isn't doing it for us. I remain a member of WBCCI in the hopes that it will change with time and I am willing to support the Club until it does. I am willing to look at alternatives though. I would love to be a charter member of the next/alternative Airstream Club.

I would like to see this new Airstream club be an Airstream Corporate endorsed club and one that is what WBCCI is not. I'd also like to see this new club include the name Airstream in some fashion. If there is an alternative to the WBCCI, the WBCCI will have to change to compete for membership or be content to continue with the loyal membership that doesn't jump ship for as long as they last. I'm not advocating draining the WBCCI or putting them out of business. On the contrary. I'd like nothing more than to have two clubs to belong to and have two options for rallies and caravans in the future. There may be a time when the current WBCCI style of club will be what I want/need, but in the interim, I'd like to have the alternative.

My dream club would have rallies around the country at differing times of the year...just like the forum rallies we have access to today. One where the focus of the rallies center around the weekend with options for those that can arrive early or stay late. There has to be bylaws and dues to cover liability insurance and other overhead cost, but there are other clubs beside the WBCCI that this new club could be patterned after. There's Good Sam's, FMBA (?), and others. This new club could have a national rally once, or even twice, a year with a similar or different format than any of these or WBCCI's. There could also be intra-club organizations (Rivettes, Silver Sisters, etc.)

I'm in the middle of raising two pre-teen boys with Scouting obligations and a career and taking a night class and trying to camp on weekends and it seems life just keeps piling up. Count me in on joining the new club, and I'll do what I can to help put it together no matter who spearheads it.

If someone other than Norsea has started the ball rolling before him, let us know so we can gather the troops behind him/her. If not, then stop trying to muddy the waters so we can get on with it.
That's good input Tom. Time and cost is a big factor when planning activities. I think Bozeman with electric 2 adults 2 children worked out to be close to a hundred dollars a night...for limited facilities! I too think there is room for an Airstream and a WBCCI club. And I would probably join both. One thing that is common to all groups is what meets their needs. I like your dream club thoughts. maybe we can all offer up more ideas aside from the structure and insurance aspects. Just more fun ideas while we are waiting for the mystery club panel to please sign in.

Nuvi, Jim Franklin camping club! That's scary.

Where's that popcorn graphic, I am waiting to see the end of the show? Intermission is killing me here. I am soooo curious.
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Old 09-25-2008, 04:42 PM   #163
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Just found this thread. Wow, a new club is proposed, not enough feedback and volunteerism is exhibited, and the project is abandoned (at least publicly), all in less than a week!

And now the NorSea web site is password protected (it apparently wasn't when this thread was "active"). I wonder what's up?
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Old 09-25-2008, 05:50 PM   #164
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The dream of a new club is alive and well...

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Just found this thread. Wow, a new club is proposed, not enough feedback and volunteerism is exhibited, and the project is abandoned (at least publicly), all in less than a week!

And now the NorSea web site is password protected (it apparently wasn't when this thread was "active"). I wonder what's up?
Hi Joe,

The project is NOT abandoned. I have no idea what gave you that idea.

If you want to participate go to my web site and send me an email.

As for the web site being password protected, I need more information as to why you would think/say that. I have no idea what you are talking about.

The ONLY time you will be challanged for a UID and password is if you are trying to get to anything on a page that is not an HTML file that will display in a browser. If you are having a problem with a specific page please provide me with the information so I can look at it. I have never been told anything about anything on my site being password protected.

And, by all means join the others that have agreed to work toward the establishment of a new club.

We took our process off the Airforum because we were not able to do the things that we wanted here. Personally I would much rather have done ALL of the work here on the Airforum but that was not an option becuase, as Andy stated in his own post above he was not willing to provide us with the functionality that we needed.

So, the effort is VERY MUCH alive and well.

PLEASE join us if this is something that you would like to be involved in.

Jim
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:42 PM   #165
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Norsea, Joe's talking about this:

http://silvertwinkie.norseaodyssey.com

Authorization Required

This server could not verify that you are authorized to access the document requested. Either you supplied the wrong credentials (e.g., bad password), or your browser doesn't understand how to supply the credentials required.

Apache/1.3.27 Server at silvertwinkie.norseaodyssey.com Port 80 Lynn
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:50 PM   #166
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I will comment NO MORE
I'M OUT
Ditto........
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Old 09-25-2008, 10:31 PM   #167
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Hi Joe,

The project is NOT abandoned. I have no idea what gave you that idea.

If you want to participate go to my web site and send me an email.

As for the web site being password protected, I need more information as to why you would think/say that. I have no idea what you are talking about.

The ONLY time you will be challanged for a UID and password is if you are trying to get to anything on a page that is not an HTML file that will display in a browser. If you are having a problem with a specific page please provide me with the information so I can look at it. I have never been told anything about anything on my site being password protected.

And, by all means join the others that have agreed to work toward the establishment of a new club.

We took our process off the Airforum because we were not able to do the things that we wanted here. Personally I would much rather have done ALL of the work here on the Airforum but that was not an option becuase, as Andy stated in his own post above he was not willing to provide us with the functionality that we needed.

So, the effort is VERY MUCH alive and well.

PLEASE join us if this is something that you would like to be involved in.

Jim
I think Eubank got it. I went to silvertwinkie.norseaodyssey.com as noted under your name and it requires an ID and password to see anything.

As for the forming of a new club, I am interested to know what is going on. I would be inclined to join, maybe even as a charter member, but I am not sure how active I would be in forming such a club, as right now WBCCI offers more than I can take advantage of, dispite the issues I see within that organization. Certainly the existance of another Airstream club would not cause me to abandon the WBCCI (and I'm only a 40-something working person). When we get past the politics and antiquated policies, there are still some great events hosted by WBCCI. I hope it survives (and is revived) by the time I retire. But a new club with a new focus could be nice, too.

I guess I'll email you off line and see if there is anything further to talk about.
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Old 09-25-2008, 11:22 PM   #168
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