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gaylejoe · 07-30-2011, 09:30 AM

It has been mentioned several times about the availability of 3 amp service at the Internationals. Does WBCCI still have all the materials to offer this service?

If the Internationals are held at locations where there are on-site 30amps hook-ups , can the 3 amp service be used? Is that possible?

Does everyone want to go back to the old way where the generators are used? Wouldn't this be more expensive way to go? Would that increase the use of early workers that everyone seems to complain about?

If the International was in a hot climate would you still use the 3 amp service?

Just my thoughts and not trying to start anything.

Pahaska · 07-30-2011, 09:55 AM

It all depends on the location of the rally. We used 3 amp service at Madison and at Bozeman and never regretted not having air conditioning. At Springfield, and at Perry, we went the 30 amp route and never regretted the additional cost.

If we had gone to DuQuoin, we would have been happy to have 30 amps. However, we will in all probability never attend another international. Frankly, they are boring and I have little patience with 1950s-type ritual and Lawrence Welk-type entertainment.

We have already signed up for the 2012 Alumapalooza. There is a rally worth our money and time. 3 amps is plenty for late May and early June weather.

RickDavis · 07-30-2011, 10:00 AM

3 amp is no longer offered which affectively increases the price of the International by about $200.
I have always taken 3 amp no matter where the rally was, except for Perry.

I am not against 30 amp for those who want it but I am not willing to pay the price.
I personally would be happy with a generator or boondocking section as long as there was a nearby water faucet and a dump station on the grounds.

THe last 3 amp was in Madison where aprox 280 trailers (28%) chosee to go that route.

We will not be attending any 30 amp Internationals under the present price structure.

Since the rallies are now small enough that there are full service facilities available I don't expect any changes here ,even though any time it is brought up to an IP they will assure you other options are being considered.
It should be noted that there were no 30 amp internationals prior to 2004 and every one survived the heat.

wheel interested · 07-30-2011, 12:05 PM

At the three Internationals that I attended I opted for 3 amp to save the money. The only time I was inside the Airstream was when I was sleeping otherwise I was outside visiting or on the go. I think the issue is better identified as one of rally cost rather than of electrical service and options. If the negotiated savings were passed along to members as part of their membership benefits the cost could be modest. Does the consumed electricity actually cost $200.00 for a long weekend or week per Airstream? Certainly that charge aids in defraying other expenses incurred for the rally. Like many others, if not most, it doesn't take a lot to make me happy, just park me with other Airstreamers and we can usually take it from there and have a great time apart from the organized activities.

Speaking of costs and a real pet peeve of mine, do children really cost the WBCCI $60.00 each or is that another nuisance tax like the higher MAL membership fee to discourage usage? Is it any wonder that someone mentioned not seeing any children at the rally. I have probably seen less than half a dozen total from the three International rallies that I attended, if even that. Can't recall more than that at the two state rallies I attended either. It can be a definite culture shock if you are expecting to see all ages and families and you literally see a sea of silver at the entertainment and ceremonies. Gosh I can't think of the last time I organized a ceremony...

mbmbstreamer · 07-30-2011, 12:15 PM

The real question is:

"Why does it cost the same for the folks who roll in for the last 4 days as it does for those who are there for 2+ weeks?"

I do appreciate the need to attract early workers. Since I still work, I can't do the work they do. But there are folks in my unit who were directed in early and given very little early work.

If the rally site charges by the number of rigs on the grounds each night, there should be a price break for later arrival. None of the recent venues have a 3 amp option, but this would offer a break in the price.

Pahaska · 07-30-2011, 12:30 PM

Our typical unit rally costs less than $30/day for 30/50 amp full-hookup sites. That's with 20 to 30 rigs attending. A $200 bump for 30a service over 3a service is simply not justifiable. That should darned near pay the whole parking bill. With 500+ rigs attending, a better price should be negotiable.

OTOH, one disadvantage that WBCCI has is the fixed dates of the rally.

dwightdi · 07-30-2011, 01:51 PM

We do not have air in our vintage '63. Many vintage VAC members do not have air and do not require 30 amp service. The majority of the VAC members at Madison did not buy 30 amp service. The weather cooperated and we really did not need air.

Our 77 does have air but we could not use it because there was no 30 amp service when we took it to Huntsville and Rapid City. The trailer was uncomfortable both during the day and at night. I would have paid for 30 amp there. As Souix City, we took the 63 and VAC had a large pool set up under the largest tree on the grounds for the kids. I saw some adults in there as well. More VAC members bring their kids. VAC average age is less that average of the club overall and lots younger than average age of IBT or International officers.

Old folks do not take the heat as well as the younger people. Motorhomes are not as well ventilated as Trailers and sometimes need 2 airs. Old leadership feel they want, need and are going to get their air. It presents some managment problems when some want 30 amp and some want only 3. It is also more difficult and less profitable for the campground providers to both 30 amp and 3 amp service. Gillette had the capability of providing areas that had only 3 amp service but the club leadership did not want to go that way. The club made a net profit of $90K on that rally.

I think the leadership should consider the VAC non air conditioner people more and offer the 3 amp option when they can.

xrvr · 07-30-2011, 02:44 PM

Let's see--3 amp equals an aluminum tent and 30 amp equals MH. I guess the rest of us don't count. Do any of you know how stupid this argument is? Jim

**azflycaster** · 07-30-2011, 03:11 PM

I was very glad to have 30 amp service in Gillette and Du Quoin. Most of the VAC members in Du Quoin had and used their AC units. The 49 CW was the only unit I can remember that did not have an AC unit.

The $200 per site for AC may have been the case in Madison because they had no hookups and generators were brought in and an electrical grid was built on site.

With 2 point and 3 point hookups there is generally one price per site which is established by the management of the site.

overlander64 · 07-30-2011, 04:11 PM

I have only missed about three International Rallys since 1995, and the only reason that I missed those was that I was unwilling to go without my air conditioner . . . and both of my coaches are vintage. One of my vintage coaches has had its air conditioner since it was new and the other had its air conditioner added after I purchased it in 2003. I can't think of a single International Rally where I wouldn't have been happier if I could be operating my Air Conditioner. I will admit to having a strong preference for a campground with the 30-AMP electric infrastructure built in as the only air conditioner problem that I have had was when a voltage spike from the generators in Springfield, MO fried the capacitors in my Coleman air conditioner on my Minuet. We added central air to our family's farmhouse in 1982, and I haven't looked back since . . . in the summer, air conditioning must be availalble for comfort . . . camping is no fun if you can't get a comfortable night's sleep.

Kevin

RickDavis · 07-30-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azflycaster

The $200 per site for AC may have been the case in Madison because they had no hookups and generators were brought in and an electrical grid was built on site.

With 2 point and 3 point hookups there is generally one price per site which is established by the management of the site.

The first couple years 30 amp was offered it was a $135 premium. It then went to about a $230. premium.
If you look at the final numbers for Gillette that rally could have been done for $400 with hookups and still had a small profit. I suspect the numbers from Illinois will be similiar since the cost per site was $15 per night but everyone bought 13 nights.

I did a casual look around at Madison and found that probably a third of the Vintage trailers did NOT have air.

I am not objecting at all to the 30 amp /hookups being available for those who want them. I am objecting to having a choice taken away from those who don't need or want them.
I would probably even consider a $400 International but the $500 one does not meet my personal cost /benefit criteria.

If one looks at the price per day of other clubs rallies using the same locations and with the hookups the cost per day is significantly less.

Now that enough profit has been made to restore the rally fund to health after the Madison debacle perhaps some thought could be given to lowering the cost of the International to make it a better value

eubank · 07-30-2011, 07:23 PM

If you watch the other larger RV clubs, they all seem to frequent the same places for their larger rallies. It seems that there is a relatively small number of locations that essentially cater to these larger groups, offering hookups and convention facilities. The smaller number of these kinds of facilities limits competitive pricing, I suspect.

Naturally, a big club could buck the trend and go to some location that does not offer the combination of convention center with large numbers of RV hookups near the center. For example, ABQ offers lots of space for RVs and a convention center, but they're not all adjacent. (They often park people at the Balloon Fiesta grounds and expect them to drive or take buses to the state fairgrounds.) Depends on what the membership wants, I guess.

Of course, we're further limited with the WBCCI because we (still currently) need to hold the International during certain limited dates.

Lynn

Pahaska · 07-30-2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eubank

Naturally, a big club could buck the trend and go to some location that does not offer the combination of convention center with large numbers of RV hookups near the center. For example, ABQ offers lots of space for RVs and a convention center, but they're not all adjacent. (They often park people at the Balloon Fiesta grounds and expect them to drive or take buses to the state fairgrounds.) Depends on what the membership wants, I guess.

Our first International rally was Springfield. At Springfield, the camping area, out north-east of the city, was quite a distance from the Convention Center which was in the middle of the city. The distance made it a bit awkward to say the least, but it worked out OK. There was shuttle bus service provided, but we always drove.

I was surprised that a previous post mentioned a spike from the generators at Springfield. The rally was held on grounds owned by the city electrical utility and we were served power by the city utility. Not to say that there was no spike, but the power did not come from mobile generators such as several more recent rallies. The utility was happy to put in power poles and lines for us in hopes of attracting other big RV clubs.

One lady did lose a pet at Springfield when there was a localized power outage.

Hueytownalss · 07-31-2011, 10:00 AM

Relatively new here. Explain this 3 amp thing. I never heard of it. What does that power, a flashlight? I don't think this will run an A/C. Advantages or disadvantages?

**azflycaster** · 07-31-2011, 10:05 AM

3amp service is used when electrical service is limited and several trailers are connected to a single circuit. It is meant to keep your battery(s) charged only. The AC will not run and your refrigerator and water heater should be in gas only mode. Small electrical devices such as computers and TVs can be used.

Hueytownalss · 07-31-2011, 11:05 AM

Thanks AZ!

Pahaska · 07-31-2011, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hueytownalss

Relatively new here. Explain this 3 amp thing. I never heard of it. What does that power, a flashlight? I don't think this will run an A/C. Advantages or disadvantages?

Ten rigs are daisy-chained on a 30-amp circuit. Each rig is somewhat honor bound to limit their usage.

3 amps will run the refrigerator on propane, a reasonable number of lights, and the fans. I am perfectly happy to save the dollars and use 3 amps whenever the season or the location promises to be suitable. We used 3 amps at Alumapalooza, Homecoming, Bozeman and Madison and were perfectly comfortable. OTOH, we opted for 30 amps at Perry and Springfield.

The advantage to me, in addition to cost, is the lack of AC noise in the campground. Folks keep windows and doors open and it is a lot more companionable.

gaylejoe · 07-31-2011, 06:58 PM

I've been parked next to lots of trailers and was never bothered with a/c noise. Now, if you if you're talking about parking next to an 18 wheeler running his aux power unit that's noise.

Frank's Trailer Works · 08-01-2011, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eubank

Of course, we're further limited with the WBCCI because we (still currently) need to hold the International during certain limited dates.

Lynn

There is a reason for this. From the Sierra Nevada Unit's site, written by Dale Schwanborn...

The International Rally for WBCCI came about in the same vein that the WBCCI was formed. The WBCCI gave friends an opportunity to get together without going on a Caravan. On a much larger scale the International Rally gave friends from all over the United States, and Canada to renew their friendships, in mass, once a year.

It was held on the 4th of July for several reasons. This was a period of time that school was out, and summer vacations could be taken. Also what a great time to celebrate the fantastic life of Airstream and the WBCCI. Also it was a tribute to Wally Byam. The Fourth of July was his birthday. Oh boy, did Wally love a party...especially his birthday. The Airstream owners wanted to share their way of life, and their affection for Wally.

Putting things into historical context is important I think. The rally I host, The Birthday Bash, is based around July 4 also. Without Wally, we would probably be camping in a Bounder. Celebrating his birthday is the least an Airstreamer can do.

eubank · 08-01-2011, 08:15 AM

Thank you for posting that information. I'm sure some folks may not have been aware of it.

There is a bit of a conundrum here. On the one hand, the period right around the 4th is the high season of the summer: Some folks want to be with family or to travel to see family; some folks want just to be alone for the period; lots of possible reasons not to attend a WBCCI rally exactly during this period.

On the other, it is the International Rally, assuredly as much the year's most important business meeting as it is a club celebration.

Perhaps this could be split. Yes, have a WBCCI rally during the period of the 4th. Yes, have a business meeting. But don't tie one to the other on the calendar.

How this would work out in practical detail is hard to imagine. I suspect it might even lead to trouble for some folks. In any event, having the year's most important business meeting as well as the most important celebration of the year inexorably bound together exactly during the period that some don't want anything to do with the club may be not be the best approach.

Lynn

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62overlander

There is a reason for this. From the Sierra Nevada Unit's site, written by Dale Schwanborn...

The International Rally for WBCCI came about in the same vein that the WBCCI was formed. The WBCCI gave friends an opportunity to get together without going on a Caravan. On a much larger scale the International Rally gave friends from all over the United States, and Canada to renew their friendships, in mass, once a year.

It was held on the 4th of July for several reasons. This was a period of time that school was out, and summer vacations could be taken. Also what a great time to celebrate the fantastic life of Airstream and the WBCCI. Also it was a tribute to Wally Byam. The Fourth of July was his birthday. Oh boy, did Wally love a party...especially his birthday. The Airstream owners wanted to share their way of life, and their affection for Wally.

Putting things into historical context is important I think. The rally I host, The Birthday Bash, is based around July 4 also. Without Wally, we would probably be camping in a Bounder. Celebrating his birthday is the least an Airstreamer can do.