2013 Rally Attendance Tax

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Does anyone do an audit to see if they are visiting friends and relatives along the way, or seeing the sights? At the least, the costs should be proportional to actual business conducted.

Gene

I don't think that's the way it works.


Maggie

[Jim Foster]

Originally Posted by eubank

Jim, I think the difference for officer travel is that they're required to do the travels, no matter what their personal travel preferences might be. It's part of the job description.

I don't think we should reduce their travel reimbursements. However, I'd bet that change to the job descriptions might be in order. Or some other structural change making the necessity of so much travel less of a burden to the club.


Lynn

That would be just fine if there were enough members to sustain that expense. That not being the case, they should not be forced to travel, or they should be ready to donate their time and travel, or not take the position.

The current path will lead to the destruction of WBCCI. It's just a matter of time. That would not be a good thing for any of us.

That's my position.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by doug&maggie

This man was not part of the IBT, but a WBCCI member. Can't recall his name but there was discussion of this issue at the time, on the midwinter IBT meeting thread for 2010 I believe. Might have been 2011, the last of these we attended.


Maggie

So long as the father was not a voting member of whatever body is making the decision, it is probably not a problem. How would he have made a motion, though?

I remember that this has come up before, but I can't remember the details though my impression was that he was a voting member of the decision makers.

Gene

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

So long as the father was not a voting member of whatever body is making the decision, it is probably not a problem. How would he have made a motion, though?

I remember that this has come up before, but I can't remember the details though my impression was that he was a voting member of the decision makers.

Gene

What I remember was the IBT up on a diaz, he came to the podium and spoke, then sat down among the rest of us.

I went to him at his seat during a break and asked him questions.

He was a part of the inner circle, that seemed clear.

On edit: I can't find the posts on this, and am weary of looking. Do see where I referenced him with initials FR. Someone reading this will know who he is. I believe this happened at the January 2010 winter IBT meeting.


Maggie

[JStanley]

Earlier on this thread, the rally tax motion was called “stupid,” unenforceable, and that it would cause a drop in membership. I believe these are accurate assessments. Just presenting that motion at the January IBT will have unintended and unanticipated consequences. In less than a week’s time the basic issue-topic has been expanded and now this thread includes a number of old issues that have been laying dormant. We are airing our dirty laundry, and that has to have a negative impact on membership numbers.

Offended people have long memories. The ‘rally tax’ motion has given members another opportunity, i.e., this forum, to resurrect or regurgitate and reactivate old issues—and for whose benefit? Who would want to join a club with a disconnection between the general membership and the leaders, together with several ongoing unresolved organizational issues, and oh yes, money problems?

There must be other ways to correct the financial situation without taxing participation. Wouldn’t it be best it the motion’s originators withdrew it prior to the Mid-Winter IBT meeting? Lets hope they are tuned-in to this Air Forums discussion.

[wkerfoot]

I doubt if the originator is on these forums, few officers are and few members are, but the originator has been informed of this thread.

Bill

Originally Posted by JStanley

Earlier on this thread, the rally tax motion was called “stupid,” unenforceable, and that it would cause a drop in membership. I believe these are accurate assessments. Just presenting that motion at the January IBT will have unintended and unanticipated consequences. In less than a week’s time the basic issue-topic has been expanded and now this thread includes a number of old issues that have been laying dormant. We are airing our dirty laundry, and that has to have a negative impact on membership numbers.

Offended people have long memories. The ‘rally tax’ motion has given members another opportunity, i.e., this forum, to resurrect or regurgitate and reactivate old issues—and for whose benefit? Who would want to join a club with a disconnection between the general membership and the leaders, together with several ongoing unresolved organizational issues, and oh yes, money problems?

There must be other ways to correct the financial situation without taxing participation. Wouldn’t it be best it the motion’s originators withdrew it prior to the Mid-Winter IBT meeting? Lets hope they are tuned-in to this Air Forums discussion.

[Jim Foster]

This thread has been viewed over 2,500 times. Someone must be reading it.

[yeziad]

Who needs a club anyway? Organize your own gatherings and don't worry about the WBCCI dues. The club has been corrupted. Airstream owners can communicate easily for planning rallys and other events. Why do you people struggle with all of this baloney? You must be bored or something.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by daizey

Why do you people struggle with all of this baloney? You must be bored or something.

Because compared to REAL politics in Washington, DC, the WBCCI politics are much less threatening to one's finances even if we lose, and we are just marginally more likely to see constructive change if we keep trying, than if we try to change the way Congress is run.

Besides, it's only baloney to people who don't belong to the club. If I get disgusted and quit the club, then it will become baloney to me, too. But until then…

[Skater]

Originally Posted by wxbuoy

But we are both still working so we can't take advantage of the caravans nor the rallys that start on Wed or Thur....

As someone that runs a rally that starts on a Thursday each year, I'd like to point out that you are always welcome to show up on Friday. In fact, even if we have off on a Friday, we still arrive Friday at several rallies we go to - by the time we get home from work, eat dinner, and get on the road, we're getting in to the rally site pretty late and dark, so it's almost pointless. Much less stress to just go Friday morning.

Caravans might be a different story - you'd have to join up in mid-trip. I haven't been involved with a caravan so I can't comment. The longer national caravans are, basically, too long - over a week off from work - and we couldn't make the shorter unit caravan we had a couple years back.

Back on the topic:

dwightdi and I had a conversation like this over PMs a couple months back. My basic feeling is that $65 isn't so much that if people were enjoying the club, they would pay it. Lower is better, of course, but $65 isn't a huge amount of money in the Airstream/camping world.

How much does the building cost? Teleworking is much more viable today than it ever was before. At my job we can even telework and use some of our most restricted data, so teleworking for a club like this seems like a natural fit. Just a thought.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Skater

Caravans might be a different story - you'd have to join up in mid-trip.

I believe one problem with that is, even if you arrive late, or leave early, you still have to pay full price. If so, that can lead some potential employed attendees to decide not to sign up at all as it's not cost-effective for them.

If caravan pricing could be per day, rather than per caravan, and when you sign up you choose the days you'll be attending and pay only for those days, that might help the weekenders.

[wkerfoot]

Don't confuse the pricing for the International with all other WBCCI events. We have attended many unit rallies where we only pay the camping fee for the nights we attend, the rally fee is usually not discounted since the major portion is often a catered dinner. At the Region 12 rallies, you only pay the camping fee for the nights you attend, the rally fee is not discounted for the same reason as the unit rallies. I can only speak to one special event rally, Hobo, and I believe that you are again only charged for the nights you are there. We signed up for the mid winter IBT and the coupon asks for the nights you are staying and you only pay for those nights, again rally fee not discounted.

I believe that per diem pricing for the caravans would put an enormous accounting burden on the caravan leader, plus part of going on the caravan is to experience the entire event.

Please don't judge the WBCCI by the International pricing.

Bill

Originally Posted by Protagonist

I believe one problem with that is, even if you arrive late, or leave early, you still have to pay full price. If so, that can lead some potential employed attendees to decide not to sign up at all as it's not cost-effective for them.

If caravan pricing could be per day, rather than per caravan, and when you sign up you choose the days you'll be attending and pay only for those days, that might help the weekenders.

[Jim Foster]

Our unit is a mix of retired and working folks. In most cases we are able to allow people to choose the days they wish to attend our rallies, and pay the camping fee for only those days. That choice is not controlled by the club, but by the policies of the places where we hold rallies. Most private campgrounds are easy to work with in this regard. Non-private campgrounds sometimes want all of the money up front when plans are being made, making flexibility impossible. As a result, we, for the most part, avoid these venues.

[dwightdi]

Southern Indiana has had caravans that charge by the day. Northern Illinois starts their rallies on Friday, but if someone want to come Thursday and stay around Sunday night they just pay the camping fee. All the catered or special events are held when the working people can be there. We try to mix up the entertainment so that at least some of it will fit various ages.

[Steamer1874]

This is Judy Bechthold, Region 12 President and maker of the motion. I was asked by a member in our region to put this forward to the IBT which I did because I thought it was an interesting concept. After reading (yes, we do read what's being said about our Club) all these responses, I have made the decision to withdraw the motion. I do not want to cause disharmony in our Club. If the person(s) who wants this to go to the IBT is still interested, they will need to make a new motion which I will vote against based on some of the very reasonable arguments here.

[noreen&sal]

Thank You. Sal

[Jim Foster]

Judy

Thank you for doing the right thing. There was never a doubt in my mind that you that you would do just that.

I see that this was your first post here on this forum. I hope that you will continue to be active here. You and Ken have had so much experience with your Airstream activities than you could be a real asset here with the information you could contribute.

Cheers, Jim

[crispyboy]

Thank you Judy for making a wise choice.

[Lily&Me]

We are no longer members, but also thank you for doing the right thing.

May your actions have the power to influence others in a positive manner.


Maggie

[Gene]

Judy, I hope you will help the club reform so that people like us, who were once interested in joining, but changed our minds when we learned how toxic it had become, could someday join.

Gene