Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-06-2013, 11:26 AM   #71
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Nowhere , Somewhere
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,417
Blog Entries: 2
the majority of club members do not participate in the forum and most do not even know the forums exist and do not care. So what forum members think of the operation of the club is not representable of the club majority. Jim
__________________

__________________
avionstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 11:40 AM   #72
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi View Post
the majority of club members do not participate in the forum and most do not even know the forums exist and do not care. So what forum members think of the operation of the club is not representable of the club majority. Jim
What you say is true. However, if the club ever want to attract new members, then the opinions of people who aren't yet club members are important, regardless of what the majority of existing club members might think.

Since AirForums is the best and easiest way to reach Airstream owners who aren't yet club members, I would think that anyone wanting to expand WBCCI membership SHOULD find out what the AirForum members think.
__________________

__________________
WBCCI #1105
TAC LA-4

My Google-Fu is strong today.
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 12:04 PM   #73
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist View Post
What you say is true. However, if the club ever want to attract new members, then the opinions of people who aren't yet club members are important, regardless of what the majority of existing club members might think.

Since AirForums is the best and easiest way to reach Airstream owners who aren't yet club members, I would think that anyone wanting to expand WBCCI membership SHOULD find out what the AirForum members think.
I couldn't agree more. At times WBCCI members have acted like nonmembers have no right to question how the club is run. All that does is make nonmembers even less likely to join.

I have met WBCCI members and they seem to be like anyone else; they do not appear any more dangerous than nonmembers. Some even could be accepted as normal people. But they haven't been able to change much about the club. The rules to ascend the golden ladder of leadership seem to make sure only those who think in lockstep get very far. Once people become leaders of units or regions, some may get co-opted and feel once they get to the top, they will reveal their true beliefs and change things. By the time they get there, maybe they will have become the same as the present leaders. It appears to take years and years to get to the top—how many give up with frustration or give up with age? How long can you play along to get promoted (i.e, selected by the nominations process controlled by the leaders) before you have lost your soul?

Having some experience in serving on Boards of Directors, you have to be careful what you say if you seek reform. You have to develop relationships with people—friendship matters, often more than logic. You have to compromise and trade things with others. It takes years to get changes through. I served on a fairly large regional organization and a group of us managed to bring some modernization, but there were always people ready to undermine change. But we got legislation adopted and influenced local pols. We had a dozen employees. When some of us left (5 1/2 years was enough), the old guard took over again and have managed to reduce membership by half or more, have 2 employees and they weakened the organization so no one listens to it anymore. It takes a lot of work and time to take over an organization and nothing is certain.

The WBCCI has a history that should be preserved, but over time that legacy has been forgotten and to someone who has joined the Airstream ranks in recent years, the WBCCI is something creaky from the past. It is interesting to see how a community unravels, but the process has become somewhat boring. It is like watching a train wreck, but the train has thousands of old, beat up cars going 5 mph and slowly hitting into each other—no big crashes, no explosions, no screams—just slowly crunching to a stop.

The club is being replaced by the Forum, some other clubs with small numbers, but dedicated members, Airstream Life and small groups of people that just find each other. All will probably co-exist for several years, but how people organize will keep changing. The internet has expanded opportunity for relationships to develop, but predicting what happens in 5 or 10 years is foolish.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 04:32 PM   #74
2 Rivet Member
 
2012 16' International
Monroe , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightdi View Post
None of the members of the committees get paid. However; the marketing committee does spend the majority of his $15,000 budget with a marketing company previously owed by him and now run by his kids.
Wait. Are you saying that the guy in charge of the marketing committee pays his kids' company to do the marketing? That would not fly at my company. Every year, I have to take training about how that would not happen. That is so questionable that I have to ask if it is really true.
__________________
quilter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 04:56 PM   #75
Rivet Master
 
Lily&Me's Avatar

 
2006 22' Interstate
Normal , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by quilter View Post
Wait. Are you saying that the guy in charge of the marketing committee pays his kids' company to do the marketing? That would not fly at my company. Every year, I have to take training about how that would not happen. That is so questionable that I have to ask if it is really true.
It is really true. We were at the IBT midwinter meeting when that contract was announced and then voted on.

I then spoke personally to the father-who-sold-his-company-to-his-son, where the new contract went, and he confirmed it.

As I recall, this father was also the maker-of-the-motion, regarding to whom the contract would be awarded. It seemed like a done deal, the motion and voting were just a formality.


Maggie
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚❤️
Lily&Me is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 05:45 PM   #76
Rivet Master
 
Jim Foster's Avatar
 
1965 17' Caravel
1983 27' Excella
Walnut Grove/Laguna Woods , California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,615
Send a message via Yahoo to Jim Foster
$100,000 for officer travel? Last year we traveled thousands of miles, spending over 200 nights in our Airstream. Nobody reimbursed us for any of that, and that's just fine. What in the world makes their travel such a benefit to us that we should pay for it?

Now with this advertising fiasco coming to light?

This whole thing is beginning to leave a very bad taste in my mouth, and I can't imagine that I am alone.

And they want to charge me another $1.00 to attend an event? It's not the dollar. It's the mindset.

Unbelievable
__________________
Past President, El Camino Real Unit WBCCI#6620
Street Rod Builder (see avatar)
Kite flier (check out links below)
http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?feature=mhee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y1_U2XQ0bI
Jim Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 06:10 PM   #77
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,840
The usual conflict of interest provisions to prevent self dealing provide that if a board member or their immediate family (different definitions of that, but sons certainly are immediate) would profit by an action of the board, the board member must not vote on the matter and may not make motions or even sit with the board during the debate. He can sit in the audience. Some states have statutes on this, some don't. But corporations usually have such a policy. Apparently the WBCCI doesn't have one, or ignores it.

A member of the organization can ask for info about such a policy and then also check state law (statutes and case law) about this. A member can sue over these things, but it usually costs a lot for little return monetarily.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 06:10 PM   #78
Moderator
Commercial Member
 
eubank's Avatar
 
1967 30' Sovereign
Bosque Farms , New Mexico
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,428
Jim, I think the difference for officer travel is that they're required to do the travels, no matter what their personal travel preferences might be. It's part of the job description.

I don't think we should reduce their travel reimbursements. However, I'd bet that change to the job descriptions might be in order. Or some other structural change making the necessity of so much travel less of a burden to the club.


Lynn
__________________
WBCCI 21043
eubank is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 06:15 PM   #79
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,840
Most nonprofit boards ask directors to donate—they could do the travel and not ask for any money.

Does anyone do an audit to see if they are visiting friends and relatives along the way, or seeing the sights? At the least, the costs should be proportional to actual business conducted.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 06:26 PM   #80
Rivet Master
 
Lily&Me's Avatar

 
2006 22' Interstate
Normal , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
The usual conflict of interest provisions to prevent self dealing provide that if a board member or their immediate family (different definitions of that, but sons certainly are immediate) would profit by an action of the board, the board member must not vote on the matter and may not make motions or even sit with the board during the debate. He can sit in the audience. Some states have statutes on this, some don't. But corporations usually have such a policy. Apparently the WBCCI doesn't have one, or ignores it.

A member of the organization can ask for info about such a policy and then also check state law (statutes and case law) about this. A member can sue over these things, but it usually costs a lot for little return monetarily.

Gene
This man was not part of the IBT, but a WBCCI member. Can't recall his name but there was discussion of this issue at the time, on the midwinter IBT meeting thread for 2010 I believe. Might have been 2011, the last of these we attended.


Maggie
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚❤️
Lily&Me is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 06:29 PM   #81
Rivet Master
 
Lily&Me's Avatar

 
2006 22' Interstate
Normal , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post

Does anyone do an audit to see if they are visiting friends and relatives along the way, or seeing the sights? At the least, the costs should be proportional to actual business conducted.

Gene

I don't think that's the way it works.


Maggie
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚❤️
Lily&Me is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 07:26 PM   #82
Rivet Master
 
Jim Foster's Avatar
 
1965 17' Caravel
1983 27' Excella
Walnut Grove/Laguna Woods , California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,615
Send a message via Yahoo to Jim Foster
Quote:
Originally Posted by eubank View Post
Jim, I think the difference for officer travel is that they're required to do the travels, no matter what their personal travel preferences might be. It's part of the job description.

I don't think we should reduce their travel reimbursements. However, I'd bet that change to the job descriptions might be in order. Or some other structural change making the necessity of so much travel less of a burden to the club.


Lynn
That would be just fine if there were enough members to sustain that expense. That not being the case, they should not be forced to travel, or they should be ready to donate their time and travel, or not take the position.

The current path will lead to the destruction of WBCCI. It's just a matter of time. That would not be a good thing for any of us.

That's my position.
__________________
Past President, El Camino Real Unit WBCCI#6620
Street Rod Builder (see avatar)
Kite flier (check out links below)
http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?feature=mhee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y1_U2XQ0bI
Jim Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 07:37 PM   #83
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,840
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
This man was not part of the IBT, but a WBCCI member. Can't recall his name but there was discussion of this issue at the time, on the midwinter IBT meeting thread for 2010 I believe. Might have been 2011, the last of these we attended.


Maggie
So long as the father was not a voting member of whatever body is making the decision, it is probably not a problem. How would he have made a motion, though?

I remember that this has come up before, but I can't remember the details though my impression was that he was a voting member of the decision makers.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 08:03 PM   #84
Rivet Master
 
Lily&Me's Avatar

 
2006 22' Interstate
Normal , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
So long as the father was not a voting member of whatever body is making the decision, it is probably not a problem. How would he have made a motion, though?

I remember that this has come up before, but I can't remember the details though my impression was that he was a voting member of the decision makers.

Gene
What I remember was the IBT up on a diaz, he came to the podium and spoke, then sat down among the rest of us.

I went to him at his seat during a break and asked him questions.

He was a part of the inner circle, that seemed clear.

On edit: I can't find the posts on this, and am weary of looking. Do see where I referenced him with initials FR. Someone reading this will know who he is. I believe this happened at the January 2010 winter IBT meeting.


Maggie
__________________

__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚❤️
Lily&Me is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.