2011 Mid Winter Meeting

[rideair]

Howie,

I’m not attacking him, nor will I attack you. But, I will “defend” myself and others though when I/we are attacked because we don’t agree with someone. I have not forgotten any of the history leading up to the “Revision Committee”. I think like many, the Revision Committee was a surprise last summer, few had even heard of the idea until after it all broke loose with the DefendWally lawsuit crashing down and him being placed on the committee under questionable circumstances, etc…

I never said he proposed the Committee, I don’t care that he is even one of the five. I do feel misled by either he or Norm. How he said he got the spot is very different than the letter Norm sent the New York Metro Unit. So you tell me, which one is the one misleading us?

I was ridiculed as the President of the WDCU by the WBCCI IBT/EC7. I’ve got a long set of emails from the members of the WBCCI IBT/EC7 at that time when I was trying to keep the WBCCI from having a motorhome other than an Airstream in the club that they as a group so wanted and are still trying to get in. I was always honest and open in “everything” I did. There was no hiding behind committees, telling people “wait until it’s out”, giving half answers to direct questions. I never even called the very members of the IBT/EC7 names after they did so to me. That’s very different compared to how some have been treated by him when asking him questions. I never held money for months even after people requested it be returned. I didn’t have a second “username” on “SaveWally” (I think his was 69xyz) so the IBT/EC7 and others would not know who he was when he blasted them. Plus, I’m not the only one on this forum that has questioned his motives and how he conducts himself. I think if you go back and look at all the different threads/posts, you will see where I am just one of many. The only difference between me and them, I’m not willing to back down and let him or anyone else run ruff shot over me. I will stand up for myself and what I know to be right and will continue to do so. I can’t tell you how many people have emailed or PM’s me congratulating me for not backing down to him like so many others have done. Here’s part of one I got just this morning “Don't let up on him. He is used to pushing people out of his way.”(and you know the person that sent it very well and have spent time with them in the past)

I’ve always been open and above board. I even tried to help him understand he has been wrong about a few things (proven by others and not just me) and offered to help educate him on the subject which I was told, I was being a “parrot” and “sarcastic” just to name a few of the words he use to describe me (which I don’t care about, if fact I thinks it’s funny).

Now, as for the “New Constitution”, let’s say it is perfect in everyway and as a unit you send your Delegate to the Delegates meeting at the International Rally telling them to vote “YES” for the “New Constitution”. During the Delegates meeting a Delegate proposes an amendment and it’s second. Now the very document the members in the Unit voted “YES” to is no longer the same document. According to him, they will be going through a different Article “every 20 minutes”. So as I said in a post “have your Delegate vote “NO” if a single word is changed”. With that, I get this response from him, “No I rather you don't suggest that unless you want to accomlish nothing”. I ask you, how can you think it’s OK for him to say vote “YES” when even he say’s the IBT “is still crossing the T and dotting the i’s” so he doesn’t know what the “final” document looks like or when he has no idea what possible changes could come from the floor of the Delegates meeting? Just blindly vote “YES”, I don’t think so.

When I went as a Delegate, I made sure the membership put handcuff’s on me in their best interest. If a single word was changed, the vote was “NO”. It was not up to me to decided what was in “their” best interest only vote as they had instructed.

FYI, I would still to this day sit next to both of you at a campfire and drink a beer and shoot the poop all night long. I might tell you both that you’re wrong or full of it, but I have no hard feelings either way. I’ve always answered your calls (even when sitting in an airport), I’ve always told you how I feel about a subject (like you didn’t have a snowballs chance of getting people to donate more money to the DW fund after the blow-up, even though you disagreed). I will always speak the truth though it may hurt or upset those that are not being truthful or are correct. I’m sure he’s put in a bunch of time, money and effort which I think every member should do at some point. It’s what make the club great.

So with all that said, which ones misleading us, he or Norm on how things really went down? I will say this, after the Mid-Winter and how Norm ran over Forrest, I think maybe he’s telling the truth about something or someone.

I have no problem with him or you. I just want was best for the club in the long run and ask those in leadership positions to do so in the best interest of the club and not themselves.

[LI Pets]

Originally Posted by rideair

I’m not attacking him,

not much buddy

I can’t tell you how many people have emailed or PM’s me congratulating me for not backing down to him like so many others have done.

That's correct you can't

I’ve always been open and above board. I even tried to help him understand he has been wrong about a few things (proven by others and not just me) and offered to help educate him on the subject which I was told,

Not You need to educate yourself in the RONR and bylaws before you post inaccurate statements about same.

I ask you, how can you think it’s OK for him to say vote “YES” when even he say’s the IBT “is still crossing the T and dotting the i’s” so he doesn’t know what the “final” document looks like or when he has no idea what possible changes could come from the floor of the Delegates meeting? Just blindly vote “YES”, I don’t think so.

The IBT has nothing to do with the drafting of doc. I have first hand knowledge of what it looks like, again factually false on all points.

I just want was best for the club in the long run and ask those in leadership positions to do so in the best interest of the club and not themselves.

I don't think that's true, I think because as you said you were "ridiculed as the President of the WDCU by the WBCCI IBT/EC7. I’ve got a long set of emails from the members of the WBCCI IBT/EC7.......I never even called the very members of the IBT/EC7 names after they did so to me"

Your posts scream the disdain you have of the club, it appears IMO you have giant ax to grind against this club for being ridiculed.

FYI, I would still to this day sit next to both of you at a campfire and drink a beer and shoot the poop all night long.

FYI I'll pass

[rideair]

Watch a WBCCI Committee Member go after an Ex-Unit President and other WBCCI members on the next "Springer Show".

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by rideair

If you Don't Trust"the WBCCI IBT Vote "NO" for the New Constitution

Actually, I see the IBT--the region presidents, anyway--just as much victims as us mere members, in this instance. The new constitution and bylaws are strictly a project of the Executive Committee and its minions.

Were the region presidents vouchsafed a glimpse of the new constitution--or the bylaws they will be expected to rubber stamp at the July IBT meeting? Do the region presidents know which of them will lose their regions when they approve the new bylaws?

My point being that if the proposed constitution and bylaws aren't disclosed to the members pronto--giving us time to read them and think about the possible ramifications--then we all ought to vote no on the whole package. What's the hurry? It can be taken up by the 2012 delegates meeting and IBT.

This secrecy and delay in revealing the whole bill of goods stinks to high heaven.
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[Janet H]

Moderator hat on - again:


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Thanks.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

I have known Paul for 4 years. He is an honest man that tells you exactly how it is. He does not beat around the bush, he does not tell tales. I do not always agree with his politics, but I sure as heck agree with his integrity.
Paul went toe to toe with the "system". He fought it using their own rules and every time he was a success they changed the rules. He knew the old ones and he learned the new ones. Had he, and Leo G not done this the WB would be The Airstream Owners Association right now. It would also have Mandaly and Provost sitting in front row.
You just might want to think twice about talking down to Paul. He saved your bacon more than once and deserves respect.

As far as him needing "to educate himself", I think the poster should take his own advice. He knows the basics, but he does not know it all. Actual real life lawyers have told him he does not follow it correctly and he still thinks he knows better.

So much hope was put forth for these Mid Winter BS session. Nothing came out of it but more mistrust, more confusion, and more time for the 18% drain of members to continue.

What a shame, what a shame.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by HowieE

Forrest

I am surprised at you position towards something you have not yet read. If you recall you and i had several phone conversation regarding your amendment and and my comment that i thought it had to be a principle part of the rewritten Constitution.

Howie,

I may know more about what is going into the Constitution & Bylaws revision than you realize. I do know what is not going to be in it. My amendment will not be in it because there are no delegates in it. So, obviously, it will not be a principle part. Also, I have long had reservations regarding the one-member-one-vote concept. I'm not opposed to the concept, just have many reservations about its implementation and use.

[joecolao]

Hey guys,
Paul I stood with you while you wore you costume! I was there too. I too was Unit President. Remember? Remember us standing there together? I too fought the issues of "Name Change" and "MoHoS". I nominated Leo G from the floor! I made the motion to commit Metro NY treasury to help fund the Law Suit. And, it is my wife the Now President of Metro NY because she too did it to support Leo.
WE ARE NOT FAR APART ON THE ISSUES!
We all want these changes to take place. They are huge.
I personally am anxious to hear Forrest concerns if any, specifically regarding the "one member-one vote" issue. Personally I am supportive of the idea and would like to see it advanced, however, I want to see if Forrest can come aboard on this. I think if resolves the problems he had and in time he will come aboard. I supported his amendment too, however it just might not be an issue anymore.
The idea of voting "NO" seems to be a bit spiteful. I understand that you don't understand Bob's humor and sarcasm or is MO. But, let us NOT throw the BABY Out With the Bathwater either.
Let's try TOGETHER to take advantage of an opportunity to make Implement the legitimate CHANGES to our club that AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER WE ALL AGREED TO UPON!

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by joecolao

We all want these changes to take place. They are huge.

Do we?

If the changes to the Constitution and Bylaws are so great, how about letting us see them! Just talked to my Region president and learned they haven't been allowed to see the revised Constitution and Bylaws yet either. So far all we have is lots of promises from a very small group of people whose credibility is. . . shall we say. . . severely compromised?
.

[LI Pets]

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F

Do we?

If the changes to the Constitution and Bylaws are so great, how about letting us see them!
.

John - in a word yes, if you didn't want big changes in the club why have you been sooo active in these threads........

Be careful in your wording, the bylaws are not being presented yet, it is the New Constitution

[wheel interested]

Who speaks for me, not Bob, or MNY? Voting "no" in not unAmerican or spiteful contrary to the comments I have been reading in this thread lately. I believe this is where Save Wally came in several years back. Members can speak for themselves and we do not want to be told to stand down and wait and accept what comes down the pike in our own best interests. No one should be held up in derision and commentary become personal rather than examining the issues. Everyone has the right to exercise their consent or disapproval and to make their choices public. This begins again like closing rank and supporting personal allies. Rather than concentrating on an open review with discussion of merit and ramifications of the constitution and our delegates vote we are being discouraged from speculation and thinking for ourselves and asking questions.

Where is the objectivity and mutual respect that should precede a vote of concensus? I guess they just do things differently in your neck of the woods. Know that members are not going to just trust you because you say so and respond unfavorably with "pet' names for them and their actions. It is not for you or your friends to judicate a matter before presenting it. That is so old school IBT! Keep your recommendations, just show us the document or sit down and wait yourself until it is published.

[jimmickle]

Voting NO may be the best thing to do. Better the devil you know than the one you don't, since it seems impossible to get a straight answer from those in the "know".

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

It is common to refer to the Constitution and Bylaws as simply the Bylaws, in most societies they are in fact one document.

So when saying "Bylaws" it generally means both but can be referred to individuality.

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Just for clarification, when the document is referred to as the Bylaws it is usually meant to refer to both the Constitution and Bylaws as one in the same although they are two.

Originally Posted by LI Pets

It is important to understand that the Constitution and its Bylaws are a very integrated package, where any change, even a small one, can have unintended consequences in one, two or five other areas

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Be careful in your wording, the bylaws are not being presented yet, it is the New Constitution.

Got that?
.

[jimmickle]

Got it!

[wheel interested]

Have you ever before seen an organization with so many chiefs and not enough Indians? Everyone's a leader and there are not enough followers to pay for their expenses. It's a real PITA

Never gonna get my love

YouTube - Jean Knight-Mr. Big Stuff

[Boondocker]

I am a strong supporter of the be nice policy (although its hard for me sometimes). Having said that, if there was ever a case to be made for letting the fur fly it would have to be this situation and right now.

The lack of honor displayed at the meeting by the president would shock a Chicago politician. Unlike many, I do not have a beef with officers expenses being offset while conducting club business. But it should be the CLUBS business and not self-service.

Perhaps some members of the board would be well served to get a fifth grade book on civics and read the parts on democracy. (Notice how I didn't fall to the temptation to make coloring book comments or suggest they have it read to them...). I would particularly recommend looking up the concept of servant leadership, as that is the proper model to use in the present situation.

[LI Pets]

Originally Posted by jimmickle

Voting NO may be the best thing to do. Better the devil you know than the one you don't, since it seems impossible to get a straight answer from those in the "know".

Jim, who R asking and what straight answer R U seeking?

[mistral blue]

Originally Posted by Boondocker

Perhaps some members of the board would be well served to get a fifth grade book on civics and read the parts on democracy. (Notice how I didn't fall to the temptation to make coloring book comments or suggest they have it read to them...). I would particularly recommend looking up the concept of servant leadership, as that is the proper model to use in the present situation.

Unfortunately, I think your suggestion may be beyond their ability to comprehend!
(BTW, there's absolutely nothing wrong with coloring books if they work. )

Mr. Beu is more than welcome to some of my fifth grade son's old books if he thinks he's up to it:

A Promise is a Promise: Amazon.ca: Robert N. Munsch, Michael Kusugak, Vladyana Krykorka: Books
Amazon.com: Molly's lies (9780816432257): Kay Chorao: Books

I can't wait to take crayon to my March President's Message!

[jimmickle]

Bob,

You, Norm, and the rest of the exec bd.

I will give you credit for the refunds, which I received. Will there be any accounting for how the money was spent?

[DanB]

May I try my question again?

What do the proposed documents contain regarding the membership and participation of individuals that own and attend a WBCCI event in a non-airstream product?

A simple synopsis is fine!

Thanks!