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Old 01-15-2011, 10:47 PM   #57
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Bob,

The committee has rewritten the Constitution?

Bill

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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
No, first things first - Constitution.
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Old 01-16-2011, 03:56 AM   #58
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Rewriting the Constitution was part of the committee mandate agreed to by Norm. I do not think the IBT was consulted by Norm, when he realized he had to do something to blunt the attempt to file a law suit against the leadership. His decision and the formation of the committee with the mandate to look at rewriting both the Constitution and Bylaws was confirmed by the IBT when they met in July.

There was no commitment that any changes would actually be made. It was just a place holder to stop the suit. Bob agreed to it after he was offered a place at the table, but the real power remains with Donna Garner, Norm's appointed chairlady, and Norm, who is counseling Donna. The net result is: Norm has successfully put off the law suit and the issue until he leaves office in June. It is good for Norm.
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Old 01-16-2011, 06:03 AM   #59
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Dwight, not sure where you obtained your opinion or facts, I disagree.

On another note.

It is common to refer to the Constitution and Bylaws as simply the Bylaws, in most societies they are in fact one document.

So when saying "Bylaws" it generally means both but can be referred to individuality.
.

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Bob,

The committee has rewritten the Constitution?

Bill
Yes, significantly
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Old 01-16-2011, 06:04 AM   #60
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Bob,

The committee has rewritten the Constitution?

Bill
Yes, significantly
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:24 PM   #61
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Here are a few terms used out of context in this thread. I have put the definitions in so the ignorant might become enlightened. Personally I like to know what I am saying is correct, and not a falsehood.


Democracy is a political form of government in which governing power is derived from the people, by consensus (consensus democracy), by direct referendum (direct democracy), or by means of elected representatives of the people (representative democracy)

Authoritarianism is a form of social organization characterized by submission to authority. It is opposed to individualism and democracy. In politics, an authoritarian government is one in which political power is concentrated in a leader or leaders, typically unelected by the people, who possess exclusive, unaccountable, and arbitrary power

A revolution is a fundamental change in power or organizational structures that takes place in a relatively short period of time.

Delusion is a fixed belief that is either false, fanciful, or derived from deception.

An agitator is a person who actively supports some ideology or movement with speeches and especially actions.

A constitution is a set of fundamental principles or established precedents according to which a state or other organization is governed.[1] These rules together make up, i.e. constitute, what the entity is. When these principles are written down into a single or set of legal documents, those documents may be said to comprise a written constitution.

Bylaw (sometimes also spelled by-law or byelaw) can refer to a law of local or limited application, passed under the authority of a higher law specifying what things may be regulated by the bylaw, or it can refer to the internal rules of a company or organization.

Of course, any definition can be manipulated to serve one's own interests.
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:32 PM   #62
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Frank, did you join the club again?
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:39 PM   #63
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Frank, did you join the club again?
Are YOU still a member?
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Old 01-16-2011, 07:44 PM   #64
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what do YOU think?

Did U join or not?
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:25 PM   #65
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Thank you for asking "what I think".

I will answer you honestly Bob, but only because you asked.

"I think" you have an issue with being honest, forthcoming, and direct. I formed that opinion only because of the direct actions I have witnessed.

What "I think" is that many members of the WBCCI have been led to rise up in support of a revolution by an agitator that then deluded the cause by using the words constitution and bylaw as a guise to support an authoritarian regime.

I only responded because you asked. I am not attacking you personally, I am just fulfilling your request for what "I think".

Now to answer your question of me directly and honestly. Yes, I did join the Club again. And we have found a way to get a 110% return from what we put into it.

Thank you again for asking me what "I think". I appreciate your interest.

Ciao,
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:29 PM   #66
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Which is it?

Bob,
Quit saying “R U trying to stir things up” for I am not. I am only asking the hard questions that need to be asked, looking for answers from a “committee” person of the WBCCI because, I paid my dues to the WBCCI back in July of last year for the 2010-2011 year and you said yourself on a thread you were asked by the IBT to look for input and answer question on Airforums. Also, being a past WBCCI Unit President I know something about the WBCCI Constitution and By-Laws (Have read them many times each).

I (unlike others) are very specific when I say “By-Laws” (That means the WBCCI “By-Laws”, which ARE NOT the same as the “Constitution”) and when “I” (unlike others) say the “WBCCI Constitution” I mean the “WBCCI Constitution” which ARE NOT the same as the “By-Laws”)

For those that DO NOT KNOW ( I have found even IBT members don’t know this fact)the WBCCI IBT has the power to change the “WBCCI By-Laws” by a vote that “DOES NOT” have anything to do with the WBCCI Delegates at the WBCCI International Rally.

The “WBCCI Constitution” can “ONLY” be changed by a vote from the delegates at the WBCCI delegates meeting which is held during the International Rally.

So, FYI, I think I’m fairly up to speed on how changes are made to the “WBCCI By-Laws” and the WBCCI Constitution”.

With that said, since about Aug. of 2010, you have been stating the “Committee” that you are part of have been working on changes to the “WBCCI By-Laws”. And now, you are saying that you are rewriting not only the “WBCCI By-Laws” but also the “WBCCI Constitution”.

I know it’s not just me, because “wkerfoot’s” radar went off with your post about changes the “WBCCI-Constitution”.


Now you can say:
“It is common to refer to the Constitution and Bylaws as simply the Bylaws, in most societies they are in fact one document. So when saying "Bylaws" it generally means both but can be referred to individuality”.

But we all know most of the WBCCI members that are watching this as it unfolds fully understand the difference between the “WBCCI Constitution and the WBCCI By-Laws” and refer to them as such (Maybe unlike you).

So, to make myself clear. Has the Constitution and By-Laws Committee been asked to “re-writing” BOTH the “WBCCI By-Laws” and the “WBCCI-Constitution” or just one of them and if just one, which one?

If you don't understand the difference between the two, that's OK, I like many will be happy to help you understand the diffence between the two and why they should be refered as such. Many of us have had to school IBT/EC7 members on this subject. I know I did with Max Carmichael (Constitution/By-Laws Guy in Perry) during the MOHO issue. He told me I was wrong, I proved that he was wrong during the Delegates meeting. The MOHO issues almost did not come up for a vote because of it.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:26 PM   #67
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Exclamation

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.

So, to make myself clear. Has the Constitution and By-Laws Committee been asked to “re-writing” BOTH the “WBCCI By-Laws” and the “WBCCI-Constitution” or just one of them and if just one, which one?
Real clear the "Constitution and By-Laws Committee" had nothing to do with our work on the "Revision committee".

We worked on the Bylaws which includes both the Constitution and the bylaws.

That is the way we on the committee referred to them for the most part.

But if that is confusing folks herein, I'll speak to them separately.

U can't make major changes to the Bylaws in contravention with the Constitution.

So yes both were re-drafted.



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If you don't understand the difference between the two, that's OK, I like many will be happy to help you understand the diffence between the two and why they should be refered as such.
Civility aside, that sarcastic line was uncalled for!
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:56 PM   #68
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Bob,

Again, I’m “NOT” trying to be sarcastic so please stop trying to make me out to be a trouble maker with your post back to me. All I did was offer help to you or anyone else to better understand the WBCCI Constitution and the WBCCI By-Laws because I had to deal with Max Carmichael (Who most thought knew the WBCCI Constitution and WBCCI By-Laws inside and out) but again, he didn’t know about a certain area in the WBCCI Constitution (He thought it was in the WBCCI By-Laws, he was wrong) that almost derailed them with the MOHO issue in Perry, GA.

A “current” IBT member thought the Delegates got to vote on changes to the “WBCCI By-Laws” at the International Rally(which is wrong). So again, not trying to be smart, not trying to be “sarcastic”. I'm just trying to make sure the people who are in charge of running and making changes to the club of which I am a member know and understand the very WBCCI Constitution and WBCCI By-Laws of which they are to work within. If you take it personally, I’m sorry. If you would rather I ask my questions directly to another member of the “Revision Committee” I’m happy to do so. I do ask if that is the case, you please write and email to that person and myself asking them to work with me in the future. My email is in the WBCCI database.
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Old 01-17-2011, 06:09 PM   #69
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I'm not being sarcastic when I ask, "So WHEN will I get my contribution back, or even any small part?" (I'm betrayed and ticked off and sadder but wiser.) As to the IBT, and the committee to obfiscate and delay, well boys go play with yourselves.


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Old 01-17-2011, 09:47 PM   #70
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<<Mod Mode>>

Reminder that this thread is about the Mid Winter Meeting and makes reference to a specific report and committee. Dialog related to constitutional or bylaw changes are relevant as are other topics likely to be addressed then.

We recognize the passion associated by WBCCI topics but the "Be Nice" rule applies here. If you want to discuss refunds and continue trading jabs, or sacastic posts please take it somewhere other than here. We have members asking legitimate questions and they should receive answers accordingly.


On behalf of the site team,

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