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Old 01-30-2011, 04:58 PM   #309
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Vote "NO" if a single word is changed!!

Sorry Bob, that’s what I will recommend to our WDCU International Delegate. VOTE an automatic “NO” if a single word is changed.

It will be difficult enough for most to members to understand the full implications of the new WBCCI Constitution regardless of what it says, I don’t care who you are. So now, take that document and have Delegates making small “wording changes” that could create “huge changes” in how the club is run (and in your own words a different Article every 20 minutes) and expect that Delegate to fully understand these changes and vote on it is crazy!

Tell me one place in life where people would blindly do something like that (I know the housing crisis, you see where that got us)?

Why was there a need to “re-write” the WBCCI Constitution in the first place. I don’t remember anyone saying we needed to “re-write” the WBCCI Constitution. Yeh, some people had problems with some areas or a sentence here or there, but not a total “re-write”. People did want the By-Laws changed to give the IBT/EC7 “LESS” power and don’t tell me that you “have to” re-write one to re-write the other. We have been making small changes to one without making changes to the other.

What was happening, there were members that were starting to understand the WBCCI Constitution and By-Laws (and Roberts Rules) as well as the IBT/EC7. And these members were getting better at working the system each year, to the point where the IBT/EC7 had to throw out the change Forrest put before them (he worked their system, but they did not like it). Why all of a sudden are they supporting 1M1V after fighting it? It’s not to give the “general membership” more power! Give with one hand, take away with the other.

I have a feeling when this thing is released the real smart guys are going to find holes and power grabs all over the place.

I don’t trust that bunch one bit and neither should you.

Vote "NO" if a single word is changed from the floor at the Delegates Meeting
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:23 PM   #310
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Join us in DuQuoin and let's figure it out.
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:57 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Ya know Carol … I admire yours (and other's) passion and dedication in attempting to save the club from the 'feckless and self-serving leadership' (thanks Leo), but I really can't believe the total about face and subterfuge that the IP did to Forrest and the region 11 motion.

As an outside observer now, it sure looks like it's time to head your horses in another direction and let those that will destroy what's left of the WBCCI accomplish their self-serving tasks and desires. Your energies would be much better expended in having FUN! Thankfully, there are you and others who will keep the legacy and memory of Wally Byam and Airstreaming alive and well for those who follow in the search for fun, fellowship and adventure in the silver bullets that we all cherish.
Lew's post makes sense to me.

I don't know what happened to Forrest's motion. Sounds like it was dumped on some technicality. I don't know what the new Constitution will say, but I would bet if I had to, it will limit democracy or be so dense no one can figure out how to change it.

The Forum, TAC and other groups are replacing the WBCCI and that process will continue regardless.

Gene
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Old 01-30-2011, 07:45 PM   #312
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I say throw more money at it followed by studies and discussions. Mean while, I will be planning my camping season. Only 52 days till the first trip. I need to get back to my list of camping essentials: delegates, check. Board members, check. Grievances, check... oh silly me, wrong list of camping essentials.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:39 PM   #313
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Non-Airstream RVs @ Mid-Winter IBT Response

During Norm Beu's President's report Friday morning, he reported 130 units were registered for the rally, of that, 12 were "in motels or off-site". My question to Norm Beu asked if there were any members staying in a non-Airsteam RV (seperate from the main WBCCI parking area) AND participating in the IBT rally. Since my question to Norm was posted on these forums, I would like to share his response:

"Your attention is invited to Art IV, Sec 10 Bylaws.

"Except as authorized by section 12 of this article, a recreational vehicle, that is not manufactured by Airstream, Inc., shall not be admitted to an intra-club, a unit, a region or national caravan or to an intra-club, a unit, a state, a region, a special event, a national or an international rally, except a semi or fully self contained motorized recreational vehicle being used to tow a recreational vehicle manufactured by Airstream, Inc. May be admitted to an intra-club, a unit, a region, or a national caravan or to an intra-club, a unit, a state, a region, a special event, a national, or an international rally provided such motorized vehicle is used solely for transportation purposes at a caravan of rally parking site."

I am aware that one member's non-Airstream motorhome was used to tow an Airstream Interstate to the 2011 Mid-Winter IBT Meeting parking site. Utilities were connected to the Interstate. This was the situation as I know it."

I trust that his response above verifies that the 12 units "in motels or off-site" were all staying in motels since the Interstate owner was on-site and residing in their Airstream.

Sandy
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:39 PM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post
Why was there a need to “re-write” the WBCCI Constitution in the first place. I don’t remember anyone saying we needed to “re-write” the WBCCI Constitution. Yeh, some people had problems with some areas or a sentence here or there, but not a total “re-write”. People did want the By-Laws changed to give the IBT/EC7 “LESS” power and don’t tell me that you “have to” re-write one to re-write the other. We have been making small changes to one without making changes to the other.
Yes you do!

That statement demonstrates the complete lack of understanding on your part of the Bylaws and Roberts Rules.

It is important to understand that the Constitution and its Bylaws are a very integrated package, where any change, even a small one, can have unintended consequences in one, two or five other areas

Your interpretations or opinions of same, should be taken by others with a grain of salt.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:48 PM   #315
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Bob,

Are you telling me "every time" a change was made in the "WBCCI By-Laws" the "WBCCI Constitution" had to be changed?

Are you telling me "every time" a change was made in the "WBCCI Constitution" the "WBCCI BY-Laws" had to be changed?

Go back and look at your WBCCI history before responding to my two questions? I don't want you to answer incorrectly again.
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:04 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by redwagon View Post

I am aware that one member's non-Airstream motorhome was used to tow an Airstream Interstate to the 2011 Mid-Winter IBT Meeting parking site. Utilities were connected to the Interstate. This was the situation as I know it."

I trust that his response above verifies that the 12 units "in motels or off-site" were all staying in motels since the Interstate owner was on-site and residing in their Airstream.

Sandy
Sandy,

I think you are reading more into his statement than is really there.
1. He did not state that the Interstate owner was residing in the Interstate.
2. He did not state that the Motorhome was not also connected to utilities.
3. His claim has not been verified by an independent observer.
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:08 PM   #317
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I understand exactly what you're saying for a change

Each unit/delegate should ask that they be permitted to have latitude in that regard.

I recall some did and some did not.

Another flaw in the old system.
It's not a flaw, it's an option. Options are good.
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:11 PM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwagon View Post
I am aware that one member's non-Airstream motorhome was used to tow an Airstream Interstate to the 2011 Mid-Winter IBT Meeting parking site. Utilities were connected to the Interstate. This was the situation as I know it."

I trust that his response above verifies that the 12 units "in motels or off-site" were all staying in motels since the Interstate owner was on-site and residing in their Airstream.

Sandy
Would you stay in an Interstate if you had a Prevost??? All I have to say is I was born at night but not last night!
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:12 PM   #319
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We were parked across from the Prevost that towed the Interstate to Mid-Winter. I saw people coming and going from the Prevost, but not the Interstate.....maybe I missed them.
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:13 PM   #320
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I was at the Mid-Winter IBT and the Prevost was the only SOB in our parking. Around Thursday some SOB's started showing up and parking near us. These folks were getting ready for a very large gun show which started on Saturday. From our parking area one could barely see the where the construction people were parked in their SOB's. I can not understand why that had to be such an issue but I'm not surprised.
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:55 PM   #321
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Sorry Bob,
Why was there a need to “re-write” the WBCCI Constitution in the first place. I don’t remember anyone saying we needed to “re-write” the WBCCI Constitution.
You are quite correct!

Does anyone seriously believe that I would have spent the past year+ trying to amend the WBCCI Constitution if I didn't feel it was basically a sound document? I do not believe it needs to be replaced. All constitutions are fluid, living documents that need amending from time to time, but that does not mean they are so fundamentally flawed that they should just be junked.

The whole point of my amendment is to put a check and balance in place. To do that requires that delegates be delegates, not rubber stamps, not uniformed toy soldiers marched into a hot, stuffy auditorium and made so sit cheek and jowl on hard uncomfortable folding chairs. Until you've experienced this first hand you can not fully appreciate that our Delegate process has been held captive by the IBT & EC for decades.

It angers me to no end that so many are critical of the basic premise of the delegate concept and Robert's Rules based solely on their observations of a Club that has so perverted those concepts.

Look at the thousands of societies in the country that annually have conventions. Their delegates do not suffer the indignities that ours do. They are real representatives of their chapters, and practiced in parliamentary skill.

I look at ours and they can hardly wait to get out of the auditorium. If you are not willing to practice democracy then you will not have democracy. It's that simple, and what scares me, really, really scares me is that if we can not have democracy in this little club, then what hope do we have elsewhere?

It is as important to aspire here, as it is on the national level.

This one member, one vote sounds catchy, simple, easy to understand, and that is its allure, but as I've argued previously, electronic voting is a poor substitute for a parliamentary practice that represents hundreds of years of accumulated experience and wisdom.

And by the way, the Denver Colorado Unit motion is not dead!
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:14 PM   #322
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I was at the Mid-Winter IBT and the Prevost was the only SOB in our parking... I can not understand why that had to be such an issue but I'm not surprised.
It's an issue because in the past, International officers have ordered that SOB leave the rally. Numerous Units have been given warning that the rules do not permit it (except for buddy rallies). So, naturally it upsets some members to see this at an IBT rally. If the rules apply to us, then they should at least apply equally to the leaders.
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