2008 SOB motorhome amendment

[Alumatube]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, right now I have no interest in joining this club, what-so-ever; And I'm concerned that by the time these old fogies are out [one way or another] I will be too old myself to enjoy what could be something every Airstream owner would and should want to be a part of.

That's what the forums are all about! Join some forum rallys and have some fun! No stuffy ceremonies or miles of daisy-chained water hoses!

Susan

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by munimula

...what piece of the revenue pie AS is for thor?...

sorry muni' don't have time right now to dig out the sources again...

and at least we agree that the CORPORATION has continued to support the club where it matters, and without fanfare.

but a/s is a ~100 million $ company (recent annual sales figure)

and THOR is a 3 BILLION+ $ company (including all divisions, gotta count bus sales!)

you do the math.

also given that a/s recent peaks in unit production are ONLY 2,000-2100 annualy, with several 100 of those 4 export only this year...

and recent dealer owned inventory is moving MUCH slower than from 02 thur 06...

while thor's annual rv only sales target is 100,000 units, and that doesn't include the bus divisions.

so a/s is just a small slice of thor pie.

trying to figure the a/s contribution to the total corporate profit is more complicated,

based on public information available.

thor continues to allow each of it's brands to operate as individual companies,

and only has small overlap or shared functions/technology.

and warranty/repair costs at a/s significantly cut into profit.

so my observation is basically as suggested back here, in post # 2, 8, 41/42...

Airstream 2007 Production Statistics

thor waves the a/s flag like ge'em waves the corvette, and a/s is like a trophy bride!

with corrosion and frame problems

cheers
2air'

[Airboss]

Originally Posted by 66Overlander

I couldn't disagree more. We have enough stress in our jobs that we don't need it in our hobby. Fighting the Name Change in 2006 was tiring, but worthwhile. Fighting the SOB MH issue in 2007 became too much. We survived 2006 because all of our units came together to reaffirm that Wally needed to remain in the club name.

2007 was a different case. We ended up changing our primary unit for 2008 because of this issue. When we attended the 2007 rally where the vote was held, we came to understand that we viewed things very differently than the rest of our unit. They all bought the "we don't want to vote our friends out of the club" story that was delivered loud and clear in the Blue Beret (with no opposing opinion allowed in the Blue Beret, I might add). We didn't buy that story. After that rally, we ended up seeing ourselves as very different from the rest of the unit, who are generally old enough to be our parents. Yet just a year before we were inspired by these same people as we could only hope to be as active when we get to their age.

But not all was good with our other units either. After having opinions and counter opinions about the SOB MH issue published in the Unit Newletter, things got a bit too personal. We almost avoided a rally for fear of being parked next to someone whose rebuttal to something I wrote got a little too personal.

We also know a couple of Airstream Motorhome owners (who were opposed to SOB MH's being admitted into WBCCI) who left the club because this issue came to be "MH vs. trailer" rather than "Airstream vs. SOB". And this never would have become an issue if the IBT hadn't brought this issue forward in the first place.

So, YES, these IBT inspired, top down, issues do real damage at the unit level. That damage can and does impede attempts to "just enjoy the local unit".

And let me add, that most everyone we have met in the club (and all three of our units) is nice, but we just want to be around others that think like us (more or less).

I have to disagree with one thing you say here Joe.. There were many including myself who had the same view as you on this issue in our unit. As you pointed out the one with a A/S MoHo who left the club was also in our unit.. If I remember right it was voted down in our unit as well..I talked to HQ today and they told me this issue is a long way from ever getting to Bozeman. Lets keep our fingers crossed that it stays in South Fla!! But just in case it gets to Bozeman. My pencil is sharp and ready to vote it down again!!!

[munimula]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

but a/s is a ~100 million $ company (recent annual sales figure)
and THOR is a 3 BILLION+ $ company (including all divisions, gotta count bus sales!)
so a/s is just a small slice of thor pie.
Airstream 2007 Production Statistics
thor waves the a/s flag like ge'em waves the corvette, and a/s is like a trophy bride!

according to the AR - buses did $400 million in '07. Based on simple math from what Larry Huttle was saying at the mid-winters - the DWR model has done $50 million to date alone. AS is a bigger piece of the pie than you think. I'm not saying how big because there report is not transparent by brand.

Gotta run to a 4pm meeting where I get to talk numbers for two hours. I can't let AirF get in my way of funding my aluminum habit.

aluminum|munimula

[mrmossyone]

If those sales figures are correct then Airstream accounts for not quite 3.5% of Thor's bottom line. I know that a "big piece of pie" is relative because whenever we are at my in-laws for Sunday lunch when asked if I want pie , I always respond with yes a big piece and I invariably get a piece that is about 5-6% of the total pie and I also then invariably think to myself, this is not a big piece of pie. I want at least a 12.5% piece of pie before I begin to call it a big piece of pie. Then again I do like pie.

[wheel interested]

zzzz what? I'm awake. I know you all love to crunch numbers and become analysts, Thor owns Airstream and Airstream made motorhomes and now they don't, and there are Basecamps and fifthwheels and a class C prototype driving around out there and squarestreams,and vans and Leo may say that the introduction of new types of units caused havoc with membership fighting to get them in or keep them out, ....but it doesn't change the price of dues today. So what's the plan now that you are all all fired up. Where do we go from here?

Too funny, Mossy! Make mine french silk, please.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by munimula

the DWR model has done $50 million to date alone. AS is a bigger piece of the pie than you think...

i have no insider stuff,

but that's GOTTA be wildly mistaken info...

doing simple math, IF the dwr models actually sold for 60K, which they don't....

a/s would need to crank out 800-900 of them yearly, to get close to 50 mill$...

that would be 40-50% of TOTAL a/s production.

then dealer would need to actually SELL 800-900 dwr units, a totally laughable notion!

the factory has made ~100-150 dwr units (there is only one model) or LESS....

the DOLLAR figures and production data noted above and in the other thread, aren't what i think...

they are what is PUBLISHED and provided by a/s and thor....

a/s reports 100 million bucks in annual sales as the total/gross sales figure,

and NO ONE specific unit...accounts for 1/2 of their total production or sales revenue.

cheers
2air'

have fun at yer meeting!

Originally Posted by mrmossyone

...Then again I do like pie.

FINALLY an important topic, we can all agree about!

now WHEN is the PIE RALLY?

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by Airboss

I have to disagree with one thing you say here Joe.. There were many including myself who had the same view as you on this issue in our unit. As you pointed out the one with a A/S MoHo who left the club was also in our unit.. If I remember right it was voted down in our unit as well..I talked to HQ today and they told me this issue is a long way from ever getting to Bozeman. Lets keep our fingers crossed that it stays in South Fla!! But just in case it gets to Bozeman. My pencil is sharp and ready to vote it down again!!!

Ralph, Actually we don't disagree. You see Lorrie and I were only associates of your unit last year when this vote came down, so we voted elsewhere. It is your unit that we transfered into for 2008! I know your unit voted this motion down in 2007 and if this thing comes back at us this year, our vote will move the needle further toward 100% against in your (our new) unit.

[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by 66Overlander

Ralph, Actually we don't disagree. You see Lorrie and I were only associates of your unit last year when this vote came down, so we voted elsewhere. It is your unit that we transfered into for 2008! I know your unit voted this motion down in 2007 and if this thing comes back at us this year, our vote will move the needle further toward 100% against in your (our new) unit.

Well that is good to hear, but the year before that, the then current president of M-D as also acting delegate flipped the entire unit's no vote on the name change issue at the delegates meeting!! We need to change that situation so as not to put our delegates in that position again of making a snap decision instead of bringing the amendment back to the unit for a vote.

[Foiled Again]

Originally Posted by drag'nwagon

After carefull and thoughtfull consideration on this matter, I have figured out a way for this to work. It is quite simple and meets club requirements. Take the money that has been saved by purchasing an SOB and buy a Base Camp to pull behind.

YES, an IDEA!!!!! I Love it.

[Airboss]

So if it was to pass I think I would go buy me a 25 yr old Fleetwood MoHo and join the VAC!! Wouldnt that be a sweet looking rig? Shades of X-Mas Vacation...

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by dwightdi

Some members are upset by the tactics. If you want to read the whole story and the conversations about it, go over to savewally.org in their forum section.

Gee, that's very hard to understand why, but frankly not shocking given all the bad press and blood they've produced in the past over this single issue....

[65GT]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

...but I think you may be throwing the baby out with the bath water here.

Jack, I would never do that. I have no complaints about what Thor does with travel trailers. I was actually impressed that they returned to the lines routes and released the poorly publicized Sport. (Nearly) lightweight rigid monocoque TT's is what Airstreams always were.

When Wally strayed from the concept he lent his name to a canned ham that did not carry the Airstream nameplate.

Even when Beatrice had ownership they created the Argosy and moved the entire manufacturing down the road a piece.

It's Thor that has decided that the Airstream was no longer a product and instead a brand, free to manipulate in square, two tiered, and bus-like. It's that devaluing of the brand that has caused a club, rather than a straight forward consumer, our problems. Airstream can abandon any poor market they enter -- the club is left to deal with those customers.

No doubt though, no matter where Airstream wound up back in '79 it would have either been Airstream or Silver Streak that continued to make the iconic shiny silver travel trailer that attracts nearly 2K buyers per year. A neat little business if you ask me.

All those other Airstream failures? Thor is a big enough company to put those under other labels and stop devaluing what an Airstream has always been.

[65GT]

Originally Posted by rickandsandi

Time for a reality check and some homework.

Ha! When is the last time you actually had a reality check?

My comments are based on the ramblings of a long term past Airstream President.

Your challenge to that statement is based on, hmmm, let me go re-check...

Yes, par for the course, your challenge is based on NOTHING. Please Mr. Cipot, educate us all and show us where I've missed the mark on my research. I'll be happy to show you mine -- I'm dying to see yours...

Empty posturing will only get you so far. I'm up for the challenge -- are you?