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Old 02-26-2008, 11:14 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munimula
... Should the company have more of a hand in the clubs business? maybe. but then some may scream that they are meddling...
dave and others...

club decline BEGAN when a/s cut them loose and the slope has been DOWNWARD since...

quite simply, the club exists BECAUSE of the brand...

yes yes the people matter but ALL clubs have people...

the main 'screaming' would come from VAC folks IF a/s was again directly involved in the club...

the o.t.c. people think they are the wb' future and that they will inherit the club eventually...

i favor professional management of an ALL airstream club that focuses on camping, travel and fun!

in truth IF the company were to become involved again, it would mostly be out of respect n honor to ol'wally...

because today's a/s BUYER has NOTHING in common with the ibt vision or otc vision...

the company could eventually restore the club and re-connect current buyers and long time owners, with 'streaming history...

but WITHOUT a marketing director or current marketing PLAN, even the company is a-drift-without-a-hitch...

for now.

cheers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander
...YES, these IBT inspired, top down, issues do real damage at the unit level...
proverb says...the fish rots from the head down
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Old 02-27-2008, 03:25 AM   #72
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So the deadline for such a proposal is next week is that correct Leo?
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Old 02-27-2008, 05:25 AM   #73
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Sure am glad I joined before learning that I joined a club that is having an identity and personality crisis. I read this article Here we go again...*-*Savewally.org and was struck by a feeling of remorse. If it were not for being a part of a great unit, the numbers would already be in the mail. What kind of reception would a class A SOB motor home recieve at a rally? Has there been any in the past as associate members?
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Old 02-27-2008, 06:05 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
the company could eventually restore the club and re-connect current buyers and long time owners, with 'streaming history...
This is the key to a better WBCCI future, but I don't think we need Thor to take over to accomplish this... just their assitance.

Here in Wisconsin, a few of us already have some marketing in the works to do just as you suggest.

As far as the VAC thinking they are the future of the WBCCI, It's not exactly that... but the Vintage trailers (and their owners) are the history of Airstream and history is what Airstream and the WBCCI have that the SOB clubs don't. History is something that can't be bought, but it can be sold... and that is what needs to be done to grow the club. There is an amazing story to be told.
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Old 02-27-2008, 06:09 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62overlander
Has there been any in the past as associate members?
No, the club's constitution is very specific on this point. If you sell your your Airstream you can stay as a member, but if you then buy another brand to travel in you are no longer allowed to stay.

The deadline for the proposal to get to WBCCI HQ is the 1st of March. The Club must then send the proposal to all Unit Presidents by the 1st of April.
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:19 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
What is always interesting to note is that Thor is the reason this club has had every major shake-up it's ever had. It's Thor that took Airstream from a classic shape to everything else under the sun. It's Poor stewardship of the brand is an understatement.

It's Thor that continues to tinker with what an Airstream COULD be and leaves this club having to deal with their failed products
I'm not a proponent of letting Thor run the club, but I think you may be throwing the baby out with the bath water here. Yes Thor has expanded the product line to many variations but to expect a corporation to stand static in a product market isn't a reality today. You test the waters, you see what takes and what doesn't. It takes company resources to do this but we wouldn't have the variations in many corporate product lines if a single product attitude was taken.

Quite honestly the direction that Airsteam was going before the Thor purchase was right down the tubes. Personally if Thor hadn't decided to develop the Safari line, would I be in an Airstream today? Probably not (either because the company would have been bankrupt or the lower cost and weight Safari might not have been available). Their best selling lines today aren't the Classic but the variants, the Safari's, the Internationals, and the CCD. Those lines have sparked the interest of the younger owners and those not willing to spend the bigger dollars that the Classic line trailers demand.

Now you might say these examples are all trailers, and not in the same discussion as motor homes, class C units, base camps etc., but you have to understand that there is only so much market out there and allowing diversification in the market can benefit the community as a whole by building a stronger corporate unit. Yeah it plays havoc with the club but you know what ever form that product takes, it still is an Airstream. The key is that it stays a club for Airstream owners.

I applaud those fighting the battle preserve that single fact.

Jack
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:45 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byamcaravanner
...History is something that can't be bought, but it can be sold...
well history can and IS also just faked, fabricated and reconstructed to suit a present sellers purpose...

as my buddy leo likes to do (see post #79) so often when he just cooks up this stuff!

ALL of the great days in club history happened under the company banner.

that includes caravans, rallies, membership spikes and so on....

the decline began WHEN the club was given independence and full freedom from the corporation...

and every little club BOOST since then has been created (quietly) by the company.

wally was a company man FIRST.

discussing thor as the parent company is a distraction...

a/s is such a small brand, small market... and SMALL piece of thor financially...

their primary purpose with the silverships, is as a SHOWCASE brand for the rv lifestyle...

and perpetuating the myths of adventure, freedom and open spaces for rv travel...

while wb' and otc members perpetuate the myth of an evil empire company...

as we've covered in past threads, just look at company/brand clubs like harley, bmw, or any lifestyle/product assocation....

they ALL focus on making the ownership experience FUN and EASY for their user groups...

at the local, regional and national/international levels...

righting the wb's sinking ship isn't complicated (but it may be too late)...

just begin by THROWING ALL THE RATS OVERBOARD, along with their rules, restrictions and phoney exclusive ethos...

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:01 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, right now I have no interest in joining this club, what-so-ever; And I'm concerned that by the time these old fogies are out [one way or another] I will be too old myself to enjoy what could be something every Airstream owner would and should want to be a part of.
Why wait? Join WBCCI now and be a part of the fun group. We have an awsome WBCCI Unit, New England, and we don't let politics get in our way of camping and having fun together. We are a diverse group of over 100 units from MoHo's, Vintage, Argosy, New and everything in-between. So far this year we have over 15 rallies scheduled and three caravans. WBCCI can be what you want it to be. Join today and be a part of future of this great club.
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:10 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
What is always interesting to note is that Thor is the reason this club has had every major shake-up it's ever had. It's Thor that took Airstream from a classic shape to everything else under the sun.
Time for a reality check and some homework. This comment is totally out of line and not factual. Leo, please do not spread your beliefs as facts and please post your comments as such that other forum members and visitors understand that this is purely your understanding of the situation. One very, very important event to remember is that if Thor had not come onto the scene no one but no one would be buying new Airstreams today! Learn the facts of the subject then post accordingly.
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:19 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
a/s is such a small brand, small market... and SMALL piece of thor financially...
2Air - how do you know what piece of the revenue pie AS is for thor?

I just looked through their '07 Annual report and you can't gleen how much revenue each of their brands puts to the bottom line. they only break out RV revenue by towable and motorized. towable rev for '07 was $1.9 billion and motorized was $565.5 million with total RV sales rev at $2.4 billion. Almost 3/4 of their RV income and corporate profit is from the towable side of the house with AS being the flagship.

see... http://www.thorindustries.com/corpor...nualReport.pdf

trust when i say that this brand is VERY important to this company and their bottom line. 2007 was their second best year behind '06, when they delivered many hurricane relief trailers.

The company has always sprinkled cash support on the WBCCI. I think they could do more but, as you state they may get push back from the IBT. arrrgghhhh
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:18 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, right now I have no interest in joining this club, what-so-ever; And I'm concerned that by the time these old fogies are out [one way or another] I will be too old myself to enjoy what could be something every Airstream owner would and should want to be a part of.

That's what the forums are all about! Join some forum rallys and have some fun! No stuffy ceremonies or miles of daisy-chained water hoses!

Susan
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:06 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munimula
...what piece of the revenue pie AS is for thor?...
sorry muni' don't have time right now to dig out the sources again...

and at least we agree that the CORPORATION has continued to support the club where it matters, and without fanfare.

but a/s is a ~100 million $ company (recent annual sales figure)

and THOR is a 3 BILLION+ $ company (including all divisions, gotta count bus sales!)

you do the math.

also given that a/s recent peaks in unit production are ONLY 2,000-2100 annualy, with several 100 of those 4 export only this year...

and recent dealer owned inventory is moving MUCH slower than from 02 thur 06...

while thor's annual rv only sales target is 100,000 units, and that doesn't include the bus divisions.

so a/s is just a small slice of thor pie.

trying to figure the a/s contribution to the total corporate profit is more complicated,

based on public information available.

thor continues to allow each of it's brands to operate as individual companies,

and only has small overlap or shared functions/technology.

and warranty/repair costs at a/s significantly cut into profit.

so my observation is basically as suggested back here, in post # 2, 8, 41/42...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f352...ics-28584.html

thor waves the a/s flag like ge'em waves the corvette, and a/s is like a trophy bride!

with corrosion and frame problems

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:36 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander
I couldn't disagree more. We have enough stress in our jobs that we don't need it in our hobby. Fighting the Name Change in 2006 was tiring, but worthwhile. Fighting the SOB MH issue in 2007 became too much. We survived 2006 because all of our units came together to reaffirm that Wally needed to remain in the club name.

2007 was a different case. We ended up changing our primary unit for 2008 because of this issue. When we attended the 2007 rally where the vote was held, we came to understand that we viewed things very differently than the rest of our unit. They all bought the "we don't want to vote our friends out of the club" story that was delivered loud and clear in the Blue Beret (with no opposing opinion allowed in the Blue Beret, I might add). We didn't buy that story. After that rally, we ended up seeing ourselves as very different from the rest of the unit, who are generally old enough to be our parents. Yet just a year before we were inspired by these same people as we could only hope to be as active when we get to their age.

But not all was good with our other units either. After having opinions and counter opinions about the SOB MH issue published in the Unit Newletter, things got a bit too personal. We almost avoided a rally for fear of being parked next to someone whose rebuttal to something I wrote got a little too personal.

We also know a couple of Airstream Motorhome owners (who were opposed to SOB MH's being admitted into WBCCI) who left the club because this issue came to be "MH vs. trailer" rather than "Airstream vs. SOB". And this never would have become an issue if the IBT hadn't brought this issue forward in the first place.

So, YES, these IBT inspired, top down, issues do real damage at the unit level. That damage can and does impede attempts to "just enjoy the local unit".

And let me add, that most everyone we have met in the club (and all three of our units) is nice, but we just want to be around others that think like us (more or less).
I have to disagree with one thing you say here Joe.. There were many including myself who had the same view as you on this issue in our unit. As you pointed out the one with a A/S MoHo who left the club was also in our unit.. If I remember right it was voted down in our unit as well..I talked to HQ today and they told me this issue is a long way from ever getting to Bozeman. Lets keep our fingers crossed that it stays in South Fla!! But just in case it gets to Bozeman. My pencil is sharp and ready to vote it down again!!!
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:48 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
but a/s is a ~100 million $ company (recent annual sales figure)
and THOR is a 3 BILLION+ $ company (including all divisions, gotta count bus sales!)
so a/s is just a small slice of thor pie.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f352...ics-28584.html
thor waves the a/s flag like ge'em waves the corvette, and a/s is like a trophy bride!
according to the AR - buses did $400 million in '07. Based on simple math from what Larry Huttle was saying at the mid-winters - the DWR model has done $50 million to date alone. AS is a bigger piece of the pie than you think. I'm not saying how big because there report is not transparent by brand.

Gotta run to a 4pm meeting where I get to talk numbers for two hours. I can't let AirF get in my way of funding my aluminum habit.

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