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Old 05-01-2011, 04:59 PM   #1
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Question 1M1V vs. Delegate doctrine

As most are aware the Revision proposes to utilize 1M1V and do away with the delegate system.

As far back as five years there has been a huge demand for 1M1V

see this thread going back to 2006.

Now the same proponents in that thread want delegate voting

The misinformation frequently posted here by non and or disenfranchised members is astounding.

So what I would like to know your thoughts pros and cons of each.


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Old 05-01-2011, 05:34 PM   #2
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I want 1M1V in my unit or as a MAL and to preserve the delegate system. That's my one vote. I don't like weighted voting or the UP voting for the entire unit. I would appreciate the right to be entitled to have my own opinion and not be negatively impacted by my expression of it. I think that IS the essence of every member having ONE vote. Everyone has an equal share in forming the future without being discouraged for their opinion or any one mmeber's voice holding any more weight than another's. It is the vote results that determine the club's course and not the campaigning. Still keeping it short of namecalling and derision is always the higher ground. Communication and free elections have always been defended zealously. Issues shall stand on their own merit and members will vote their conscience or so direct their delegates to represent them. Leadership or committee members should have no more weight given to their preferences than that of the any other mere member. To discredit others for taking a different stand or approach is not the best avenue to persuade others that the ideas themselves are sound.
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Old 05-01-2011, 05:53 PM   #3
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I support 1m1v.
Different units vote different ways and really do not represent us.

Also I really don't trust the delegates to vote our view point.
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Old 05-01-2011, 07:35 PM   #4
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WBCCI Delegate voting is a form of representative democracy. Each delegate has the power of the number of members he/she represents. With a well run Unit, there is a local vote as to how the delegate is to cast their votes at the Delegates' meeting. From my personal experience attending at least 8 delegates' meetings, some delegate follows the wishes of the unit and casts a split vote representing the varying opinions within their unit. Some of the delegates cast block votes (all in one direction). This may be do to the unit leadership determining what should be the units position and not holding an election. The block voting may also be due to the unit deciding they want (by majority vote at the unit) to case all their votes as a block. I have personally seen this done. Or it could be (remote) that all unit members feel exactly the same about the proposition. It is not a perfect system and many members do not avail themselves of the privilege of voting. I am not sure the system that is being proposed does not also carry some weaknesses. Since we have not seen what the IBT will issue as the new Bylaws, there are many loose ends that could result in many different outcomes for the members. The outcome is completely controlled by the inner circle at this point who writes the Bylaws.
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Old 05-02-2011, 07:07 AM   #5
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How many amendments have been made over the past 10 years folks.

Many people talk the talk but they don't walk the walk.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:06 AM   #6
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Interesting debate. My unit gave me specific input on these changes. I had great discussion in 3 sessions at our last rally. The direction was to cast all our votes in accordance with their wishes as I understand them.

Carte Blanche? Hardly. During the Business Meeting, I provided the feedback I had received in the 3 sessions. I committed to seeking more input from my members and will have another session for that purpose in our May Rally.

If the focus of the club is democratic process, then we CAN get implement 1 M 1 V. That would require debate at the Unit level, fair and balanced communication of the contents to the members, and THEN voting. A very time consuming process. We are a CAMPING club.

To send ballots with only our existing communications (IP and CBL Chair recommendations) would result in a very uninformed membership voting as recommended.

I will be voting for a change that keeps delegate voting, reduces the size of the IBT, establishes the Delegates as the final authority on the Constitution, and open for some method of empowering MALs.

The current proposal can be amended to do that in June. Anyone care to participate?
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Old 05-02-2011, 04:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post

As far back as five years there has been a huge demand for 1M1V

see this thread going back to 2006.

Now the same proponents in that thread want delegate voting

.
A convenient choice of reference to spin a point. The link to the proposal made in that thread is not available. Subsequent posts in the thread show two things.

The current 1M1V proposal only matches the original in name. The original proposal maintained delegate voting to determine what went to the membership for their individual vote.

Some of current posters opposing 1M1V have been consistently against it.

Don't see much flip flop here.

I think that the original concept was excellent. The current one is lacking. The Member's Caucus sounds like another seminar to me. From my exposure to IBT type seminars they are a waste of time. This one allows the IBT to pick an audience that is sympathetic to their cause.

Jim
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Old 05-02-2011, 04:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear View Post
This one allows the IBT to pick an audience that is sympathetic to their cause.
Jim
Jim can you please explain how the IBT picks an audience?




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Old 05-02-2011, 05:58 PM   #9
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No to 1M1V

Last time I checked if you are a Unit Member in the WBCCI it was a “1M1V” organization.

Have I’ve been missing something all this time and could have voted two, three, maybe four times and didn’t know it?

Now, last I checked the “MAL’s” did not have a right to vote which could be fixed by amending the current Constitution giving them that right.

I was never a fan of 1M1V and still not to this day. When only about 30-35% of the people in a Unit vote as it is (and that’s with the Unit’s leadership hounding them to do so) why would anyone think voting via the system that is being suggested would get any better results?
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Old 05-02-2011, 06:03 PM   #10
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Now, last I checked the “MAL’s” did not have a right to vote which could be fixed by amending the current Constitution giving them that right.
But in all the years as a high profile member why didn't you propose such an amendment or in fact any?


Quote:
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Many people talk the talk but they don't walk the walk.
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Old 05-02-2011, 06:32 PM   #11
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Bob,

At that time, I was fighting to keep you from belonging to the Airstream Owners Bla, Bla, Club and having THOR Motorhomes camping next to you at rallies. And might I add, I did it with honest information and no spin.

Unfortunately, the WBCCI IBT/EC7 has had a history of creating committees to make changes to the Constitution (see above), having the committees mislead the membership about the need to make the changes in hopes of getting done what they want. I'm just sorry they have not learned anything from the past.

You might be right about some thing, if the New Constitution is voted down, maybe I should suggest making those changes in an “honest manner”.
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Old 05-03-2011, 08:01 AM   #12
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With the current system of voting, is there accountability to the members.

Example: if the members of Unit A wanted their delegate to vote for ABC, there is nothing to stop the delegate from voting for XYZ even though he/she is elected by you, the member.


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Old 05-03-2011, 08:18 AM   #13
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Norm told you to clarify the bylaws and make it consistent to the Constitution last August. You decided to rewrite the Constitution. What is the difference in what you did from what you say a delegate might do? Seems like you are saying that the delegates do not pay any attention to their fellow members tell them. I do not think that is true for most delegates, but this is a weakness of all representative democracies. (which I pointed out 50 postings ago.) You can imagine that any delegate that acted that way would be thrown out of the unit as soon as the members found out what he had done.
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Old 05-03-2011, 08:23 AM   #14
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Good question!! jim
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